You're born Christian? Yeah I was  I was Christian, Christened Christian  

yeah and where do you find yourself now  

I was telling as I was telling him I'm at  a junction where I'm just open-minded um

trying to find my direction then what do you understand what I'm saying yeah yeah yeah and  

and that journey have you looked into Islam, of  course, you've got a Quran today and um I have  

not exactly but um he give I will read the Quran I would read and what do you know anything about  

Islam already anything at all that much not much  okay I'll tell you nothing yeah and and where did  

you sort of find yourself leaving the traditional  sort of practice of Christianity and looking for  

for the truth essentially because you say you  were looking for the truth and did you not find  

that when you were you know a Christian or if  something's not settled with you um um there's a  

lot of discrepancies I would say um you know with  regards to the Bible I mean you know you know yeah

and then you go to your pastor and you ask  questions and what is said to you is that only  

God knows that you know this this kind of thing so  but I'm I'm quite a logical person I'm quite a lot  

and you know we have these minds for a reason God  gave us minds to use and and to be able to sort  

of understand the world around us and of course  our purpose and who he is as well ultimately uh  

and one thing you'll find in Islam is the the  foundational beliefs of who who is God uh what  

is our purpose and all these sort of things make  sense naturally just settle in your heart uh where  

when we try to speak to Christians about uh the  concept of who God is and you have that triune  

concept from the trinity which fundamentally is a  is a hard thing to understand it's a it's a it's  

trying to squaring a circle you know how three  and one and one and three and a whole confusion in  

Islam it's very straightforward we believe God is  one in every way shape and form he's indivisible  

nothing created him he's uncreated and he has  no offspring okay he has no children he has  

no uh daughters or sons we are his creation the  messengers out there as guidance for us on how to  

live our lives for each person so each people were  sent a messenger Moses came to his people and and  

so on and so on and the final one is the prophet  Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him who came to the whole  

of mankind because Jesus did he didn't complete  his mission when he didn't complete his mission  

of course he still is still going to come back on  earth you know and he said to his disciples I have  

many things yet to say to you but you can't bear  them now okay okay with that so where does where  

does Jesus then fit into Islam so for who if I was  to ask you do you view Jesus as as God himself or  

do you view him as a person sent by God well you  see in Christian belief and you know that yeah  

I should say it goes back to the trinity again  where they say that God when you have like God the  

father God the holy spirit and God the the son yes  and um so then you're meant to believe that Jesus  

is a representation of God but yet God himself  that again is kind of confusing exactly it's  

apparently because even in the Bible if we read  the Bible Jesus prayed to the father absolutely  

so you know he called upon the father hell upon  the father for help and when he was about to be  

crucified God went to the garden of Gethsemane  and he prostrated to the father you know the many  

many examples where he lived his life as a  servant of God as like as a messenger like Moses  

and Abraham came with a message for his people uh  and never he always pointed to the father for for  

uh in terms of worship he always said I'm the  way and the truth and life no one comes to the  

father except through me yeah okay yeah so he was  always directing it towards the father who is the  

called in the Bible as the one true God okay but  for us we don't take the Bible as a as a means of  

guidance why because like because if you look  at the Bible and you look at the discrepancies  

within the current Bible we have today and you  look at the way it's been uh transmitted to us  

from Jesus Christ this there is nothing from the  lifetime of Jesus Christ in in the manuscript  

there's a lot of gaps there's a few gaps  you know if you look at even manuscripts  

and the first one is about this big it's called  p52 is about two centuries almost two centuries  

after Jesus Christ and then there's many other  discrepancies that you as you go through the  

history of it that's one thing but then if you  open the Bible and you see contradictions you see  

uh even for example the death of how of Judas you  know yeah there's different different accounts of  

it so and then it's still the God is supposed to  be you know this is meant to be the word of God  

and God can't make mistakes like this you know  to make things in errors within the Bible so we  

don't accept it as a means of guidance because it  hasn't been preserved the Quran however differs  

from the one you're holding it differs massively  from the from the uh from the Bible in that sense  

why because we have the the original train chain  of transmission from the prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace  

be upon him through the companions we  have manuscripts such as this one here  

which was found in Birmingham okay this was  in 2015 they found it in their archives okay  

and they carbon dated this to the lifetime  of the prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him  

close to a couple of decades after  the prophet peace be when he was alive  

and the Arabic on here is identical to the  Arabic that we read today the same surah the  

same chapters so he's been preserved millions  of people have memorized the original Quran  

in in arabic how many people have  memorized the Bible in aramaic  

do we even have an aramaic Bible that Jesus spoke  we don't so it's important to know these things um  

but that's one part of it obvious preservation  because if I give you any book and say the word of  

God are you going to start following it no you use  that mind thing let me let me critique it and say  

okay are there mistakes inside it doesn't claim  to be the word of God all of these things okay  

so the Quran has all of those preservation and  then it has miracles scientific facts mentioned  

in over a thousand years ago you know the prophet  Muhammad ﷺ was an unlettered person he's producing  

such a rich literature and poetry that people  are in incapable of reproducing so these these  

things are all there and then the belief system  you know we believe God is one okay we believe  

God is one uh we believe what he created us to  worship him in this life and that's our means of  

salvation we don't require a human sacrifice to be  saved this is a pagan pagan tradition the pagans  

that's that's the next thing that's confusing  about the Bible because it criticizes  

sacrifices and then yet we have the sacrifice  sacrifices even before Christ we had animal  

sacrifices and then we have the Jesus himself  so and then he's supposedly good you know they  

think the confusion that how is God sacrificing  himself to himself you know you find yourself in  

a how do I how do I sort of compute this in my  mind and and accept it in Islam is simple you  

are accountable for your own actions you're not  born into sin as child is born sinless because  

how can but the Christian teaching is that we're  born in the synagogue exactly because it says  

the Bible says again because of Adam and eve  something that always I remember because trust  

me I was a really like serious young guy because  my I guess you're wearing a cross of course  

yeah my uncle was my uncle was one of the main  pastors in the church that I grew up my wow auntie  

elder because I grew up with my aunties uncles  you know my mom was overseas you know Caribbean  

island your parents go overseas to make a better  life left with your grandparents and then you end  

you know with uncles and people yeah and yeah so  so I was you know and one thing that was always  

said that um we all come short and so and that  that was taken back to say that we are all born  

interested in the scene and so you know so  look we believe that you are accountable  

for your actions I why should you and me be  accountable for Adam and Eve how is that fair  

that's the next thing I thought of you know  honestly honestly I was like that's unfair  

I always say that in my mind that's unfair  why where for okay one man one woman  

transgressed and then just automatically then the  rest of the world has to pay and bear the burden  

until the until the end of time ever all the women  are born uh sorry are punished with the pain of  

childbirth yeah because of eve's actions and men  go after you have to go out and work and sweat and  

by the sweat of thy brows yeah yeah exactly for  the for the actions of Adam how is that fear  

where is the mercy where is the love so we say  God forgave Adam and Eve and that was the end of  

the matter you and me are born sinless okay and  we are accountable for our own actions okay and  

our salvation is through the obedience of of the  guidance that God gave us because so God gave us  

he gave us his life he gave us all the blessings  we have in this life he gave us a framework as  

well that you hear the do's and don'ts who is the  system you're living in this life is a test do xyz  

and you'll be successful stay away from xyz and  you'll be good you'll be successful okay it's  

it's for our own benefit if we were all evil  it wouldn't harm God in any way if we were all  

angels it wouldn't benefit him in any ways for our  own sake okay now if we follow that guidance we'll  

be saved on the day of judgment and that guidance  just like for Moses was the Torah to his people  

and then Jesus came to his people the prophet  Muhammad ﷺ was lost in that succession  

he came with a message not for a group of people  he came with a message you made a very important  

point when you say not for a group of people  that's the next thing I find that was confusing  

and unfair again when God when you say that Jesus  was sent for a particular people the lost ship of  

israel israel and then everybody else was bad and  then it justify you know okay this is my people  

I'll protect my people but the other people you  can destroy them and that's I find that crusades  

and many of things yeah nice and honestly so these  are that's the question that was raised in my mind  

so in Islam look if you if you if you go have  you ever seen uh Saudi Arabia mecca have you  

ever seen a video of it I mean I was so brought  up into like the Christian Christian faith yeah  

it because Christianity teaches you that this is  it and this and you should not even venture into  

anything you shouldn't even find  the world don't think or just  

bring into your mind any other religion because  it's bigger that's that's the irony is that  

they the rituals and that you're finding a lot of  Christian rituals have their roots in paganism you  

know Christmas Easter eggs I learned that Easter  everything it's all pagan you know men think so  

um when you when you look at Islam on the on the  contrast of that it brings the original message  

what Jesus and Abraham and Moses came with  worship one God do not worship the prophet  

Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him do not worship any  other creation only worship the one that created  

you like every other messenger prophet uh prophet  did they all came with that core message if you  

want to be saved on the day of judgement follow  this guidance worship God purely and you will  

be saved on the every single Muslim we believe  who dies as a Muslim will enter into paradise  

this is the means of salvation no human sacrifice  no unfair punishment for your for your father's  

crimes nothing like this because how can God  who is just legislate something which is unjust  

you know and where is the justice I'm just going  to ask you here as well where is the justice in  

an innocent man Jesus Christ being punished for  the crimes of the guilty us he's innocent why  

is he suffering the punishment on the cross you  know and not only him but God himself in one way  

so that concept of this crucifixion of  all of these core fundamental concepts  

and then obviously the preservation of the  Bible where it all comes from really makes  

a person question the core foundations of that  belief because you say you're a logical person  

you know you and I and I see you you seem like  a sincere person who's looking for the truth  

and I'm sure you will you will find it in Islam  without doubt because these things which I've  

told you here anything which I've told you about  Islam so far I know you I'll want to research etc  

does your heart reject any of it  no no no no I'll be honest with you  

and I'm very I'm very honest and straight up when  it comes to these things like like with my heart  

if I if I if I don't if there's a contradiction  that I or anything I will tell you hundred percent  

because it's better to be straightforward and  open with your heart if you want the truth yeah  

yeah and the Quran another thing the Quran says  Allah says in the Quran if this is from anyone  

other than God then find a contradiction  in this book it's been a thousand years  

not a single person can find a contradiction  in the Quran not even one it says if this is  

from anyone other than God then produced a chapter  like this not not a whole book just a chapter and  

the arabs which is their language they have not  been able to meet this challenge why because it's  

miraculous it's something different you know  how it was revealed over over multiple years  

and there was not a single contradiction  you know that's amazing in and of itself  

um and it makes predictions of the future  and it makes all of these qualities that the  

word of God should have inside it are present  within this text once a person can can sort of

prove that this is this is worthy of being  the word of God then you can open and say okay  

now I'm going to take guidance from it you know  just following something without it qualifying  

it doesn't make sense so I mean for you who  seems like a person who's looking for it  

when you when a person accepts Islam  okay you don't lose Jesus Christ  

we love Jesus Christ a Muslim is not a Muslim if  you reject Jesus Christ it's a pillar of our faith  

okay every we believe in every prophet and  messenger Abraham Moses Jesus David Solomon all of  

these prophets and messengers the best of mankind  we have to believe and accept every single one of  

them we don't reject a single we don't reject a  single prophet okay so Jesus Christ uh you retain  

that love and and what you know about him in fact  what Islam will do will come and correct some  

things which have been introduced into uh uh or  attributed to him okay yeah uh so we view him as a  

messenger and prophet to your question you asked  how do you view Jesus Christ we view him as a  

messenger and a prophet who was sent to his people  and we believe he will return as well to complete  

the rest of his mission on this earth yeah  and the prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him  

is a final messenger okay okay do you have any  questions about Islam I know you went around  

you are quite very clear and precise and  I like that yeah yeah and no question at  

this point but what I will do I'm the type  of person I sit back I would read excellent  

I would read I would absorb everything answer  any question that comes to my mind then what

exactly we're here anyway but if we're here  every Saturday one to five uh-huh or you pop  

onto Instagram you pop us a message over here okay  once your message foundation on Instagram we have  

a team of admins there that will pick up your  message either myself or some others will pick  

it up um and then we can continue the dialogue on  there if there's anything which sign if you find  

oh he said this on the day that's not quite true  whatever always happy to sort of be corrected not  

a problem okay but at the same time if you find  if you find that it all settles your heart makes  

sense to become a Muslim is a belief in the heart  and there's no one worthy of worship except God  

and that that Abraham and Moses and Jesus are  all the messages of God okay and the prophet  

Muhammad ﷺ is the final messenger of Allah okay  um and if a person believes that in their heart  

they say as the testimony of faith the shahada  okay which I think you've got online as well and  

then they live their lives as a Muslim you know  the beliefs of a Muslim are these six pillars of  

belief oh yeah right on this side of the are  the beliefs of a Muslim we believe in Allah  

God essentially that he's one we believe in the  angels his creation the holy books the original  

Torah the original uh uh in jill uh we believe  in the prophets of God belief in the final day  

the day of judgement okay in the hereafter  and divine decree okay and like when you when  

a person becomes Muslim they have these they do  these uh you know these are actions you pray you  

give charity perform pilgrimages you're able to  and faster in the matter so this is the framework  

and and this is really you know the salvation  is salvation ultimately is from the mercy of God  

ultimately it's from the mercy of God we can do  all of these things but we will always know that  

fall short because we're human beings it's through  the mercy of God he will enter us into paradise  

if we only worship him alone and no other human  being that would be a means of salvation thank  

you not a problem I'm going to give you one other  little thing here and in fact I'm going to give  

you a different Quran actually if you're okay with  you yeah I'm going to give one of these ones okay

one of these I'll take this one away from you,  okay this one has appendices at the back okay  

which talk about um preservation of the Quran  which talks about the manuscripts regarding  

the Bible as well um scientific facts within  the women's rights many other sorts of things  

which you may find interesting etc... it's all  comprehensive with all within here in the appendix  

as well as the whole Quran is the rest of it as  well okay and I'll give you a little bit for the  

prophet Muhammad ﷺ peace be upon him so you've got  some reading material there to do okay and um if  

you have any questions you can always definitely  hear from me because I would have questions