Each year, nearly 5 million people visit the American Museum of Natural History.

Most pass by a controversial statue memorializing former governor of New

York and U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt.

It's hard to get perspective on the statue. You really have to be standing in the park across the street

to actually get much perspective. And when you do, you see this kind of heroic

figure on top of the horse—Teddy Roosevelt as we've come to know him and love him,

with a bandana and his Rough Rider kind of gear.

And then there's the two figures, which I think many people miss. This Indian figure on one

side, an African figure on the other. There's something that's itchy about this

statue, that rubs us the wrong way, that's just not quite right.

I started to look at this statue. I was just thinking tick you see the horse is like oh but dang I

started paying attention to the people and I was like oh like there's one

person at the top and then the other two are at the bottom it's a beautifully

rendered equestrian statue but the symbolism of the statue is always

problematic first impressions of the statue are that it's a magnificent piece

of work and that it's massive it's a reminder of this country's

history and what we don't want to talk about it solidified what happened to

some of my own ancestors it could be seen as a friendship I know it looks

good right in front of museum also so I'm not you know it's a nice it's a nice

now you can take nice selfies thank the African is naked or practically naked

we're calling them a primitive Society I know it hurts a lot of my people in

particular it hurts a lot of minorities in general people have protested the

statue for decades and today these voices are intensifying their demands

that we which of course come down when I look at the statue

I do see a commentary about white supremacy it has acquired that

reputation as being a monument to racial supremacy it represents

a racial hierarchy and it pains me that that might be part of the experience

entering the museum the fact that monuments in Memorial in New York are

controversial isn't new they often become because it's public space sites

of protest places to rally places to celebrate that is the role of public

space it's a space of contestation statues are powerful things and we're

taking a hard look at our history and how do we deal with that after Roosevelt

died in 1919 the state of New York set out to create a memorial to honor

him as a nature lover Explorer an author of Natural History the state of New York

wanted to memorialize TR as one of the great New Yorkers it made sense to the

Museum of Natural History because the Roosevelts had such a great

history here our Charter was signed in 1869 in his father's parlor he was a

blueblood kid from a aristocratic New York family who goes on to live rough on

the range as the kind of cowboy there's the Rough Rider legacy of him on San

Juan Hill that makes him a war hero at the time he was a larger-than-life

adventure hero type of figure yes he was a naturalist yes he was a kind of

Explorer but he was also the president he is our great conservation president

during his tenure in office he saved over 234 million acres of wild America

places like the Grand Canyon muir woods this is part of the enduring legacy of

Theodore Roosevelt architect John Russell Pope won a competition to design

the memorial at the Museum consisting of a new building murals and other works of

art sculptor James Earle Fraser was chosen to execute Pope's vision of the

statue which was unveiled in 1940 Pope's specified an equestrian monument

Roosevelt on the horse and two figures standing next

and the entire group not just Roosevelt was intended to be heroic the

allegorical figures and these are Frazier's words may stand for

Roosevelt's friendliness to all races the figures represent the continents on

which he hunted as other gun bearers or guides or both people referred to this

figure as an african-american that's totally impossible

we know he represented the continent of Africa the African figure is conjectural

in a way sort of not known so you get a sort of classical kind of body figure

very stripped down without much in the way of accoutrements a sort of robe that

leaves the figure more exposed the Indian figure has detail on it the

blanket it has beautiful medallion the headdress has some detail in it so the

Indian figure is known in that sense he was probably intended to represent a

Plains Indian warrior there's a kind of freedom of interpretation because it

represents more than a single portrait it's a composite of many tribes the

positive aspect of the statues is that it's done with great skill the artist

was very competent and knew how to show his vault as the powerful figure by

putting everybody else in his wake here was Theodore Roosevelt great American

figure stalwart riding on his horse I mean he's holding the horse that's

reined always to me seems like a narrative of domestication like the

horse has been tamed the Native American the indigenous populations had been

tamed the conquest of the African continent was also about sort of taming

the savage right the savage beasts and that was the narrative that was

communicated to me through an American Indian person looking at the monument

there's an experience of pain that comes with it Indian figures sort of cast as

the sort of vanishing disappearing figure of the past to see that

representation and to understand that the representation has had all kinds of

consequences it's not a pleasant experience

I don't feel offended by this - I feel like they did something wrong

with the statue it's it's not right maybe the intention had been to make

awareness of Native Americans and Africans but it just came off all wrong

it would have been better if the two guys were both on horses and then it

would have been like we're all like equal and all the same the sculptor

James Earle Fraser I don't think he means a slight against Native America or

Africa but we are so distant from his mind as living cultures where the

symbols of primitivism were the symbols of nature I think their faces are

dignified but you know at what cost because unis they didn't seem like free

men I see colonial power the standing figures were taken to somehow be lesser

than Roosevelt because he's on the horse and they're standing on the ground that

of course looks extremely prejudicial that's how we would see it today if we

see it in the historical context and we see the two standing figures as having

allegorical content both representing continents and representing figures who

would have assisted Roosevelt on his hunt and then we see it in a different

context I think Fraser as a sculptor meant to depict them in a very

sympathetic way with dignity you know you don't see the cigar store Indian as

as they were called you don't see you know the comic African with the bone and

his nose it's a beautifully crafted work of art but there's always an aesthetics

to race Roosevelt was seen as a champion of conservationists science

conservationism gave us our National Park System and Roosevelt's probably

best remembered for that most people don't know that a lot of these national

parks were made possible by the evacuation of indigenous populations

Roosevelt says something like this I'm not gonna go so far as to say

that the only good Indian is a dead Indian but in nine of ten cases I

believe that to be the case and in the tenth case well you know so you couldn't

call him a friend of the Indian I would absolutely call Theodore Roosevelt a

racist his views on race come out of his last position come from a certain moment

where that particular class had an extraordinary amount of wealth and power

at the turn of the 20th century you have to look at people at their time period

and Theodore Roosevelt 1901 to 1909 if you're comparing him he was quite

enlightened and he invited Booker T Washington to the White House and this

created a huge outrage never before at African Americans sat in

the White House and TR got hammered for this after his presidency Theodore

Roosevelt goes to Africa who else in America was doing that on the other hand

he was an imperialist figure there when you read some of his writings you cringe

because it has such a feeling of white supremacy it shows a portrait of

somebody feeling that tribal people of Africa are not very high on his

Darwinian scale he had very specific views around which

races the Nordic the Alpine were going to lead civilization forward and then

there were those that you didn't want to mate with Roosevelt was very much a part

of that debate around whether or not you could actually breed better humans this

feels called eugenics which also became very popular the American Museum of

Natural History was also involved in this misguided movement hosting two

conferences with displays in the 1920s and 1930s

you can take your pick of American presidents who have perpetuated the

theories of racial segregation and racial subordination he wouldn't be the

first that would come to mind but the placement of the statue the existence of

the monument the dialogue that it generates with the public combined with

the colonial framing of the museum itself is what makes it distinctive and

that's what makes it so problematic I've been here for parts of five decades and

in every one of those decades we've had protests against the tr statue the

political reality is that that statue is where it is because that's where the

state of New York wanted it I think statue should be where they are

should this be on a Main Street should just be on a funded museum no I will put

a dinosaur over here something anything else about this I'll leave it up for

sure there's still a part of history I don't believe they should be destroyed

but I definitely think they should be taken down leave it as it is and that it

you know that it represent the time that it was made and we know better now I

think I would I would move it inside the museum and put something else here I

don't know if it necessarily needs to be taken down because if we if we take it

down then we erase what happened and we cannot really erase what happened we've

just got to like be able to move forward in 2017 the mayor of New York formed a

commission to examine troubling monuments throughout the city but the

Commission was unable to come to a consensus on what to do about the

Roosevelt statue the mayor decided the statue would remain with additional

context and the possibility of adding new works of art I voted to remove the

statue I thought it should be removed elsewhere on grounds not be removed

entirely but moved elsewhere and then contextualise I personally would be

opposed to removing things I think it's better to expand the people that are

being all in our public spaces I would remove it

from public view I think it would be a long overdue act of racial healing in

this city I don't think it deserves to really occupy that prominent position

any longer I'm not inclined to tear things down because I really sincerely

believe it erases history and history is hard and unpleasant but we need to talk

about it I think it's wonderful that there is a conversation about what we're

seeing because there are so many different views now and I think the

conversation can change because of Education and what we hope for in the

future so I mean that's the power of sculpture says the sculptor museums

should not simplify stories we should complicate them Teddy Roosevelt deserves

to be memorialized for his contributions to conservation

we should also acknowledge his race politics these were complicated figures

it's not an attack on the legacy of Roosevelt but it is a request that we

think about what we put on display in light of what we do and how we think of

how we feel in the in the present moment let's think about sort of ways in which

we commemorate but also look to the future now that our politics are

becoming more diverse people are asking can we have different representations of

people and events and histories not a single history but multiple histories

and monuments and markers in the United States I think can speak to those

multiple histories

you