(Greetings)

Another Sunday, another day at speaker's corner

and today we are here with

Parvati

Parvati and Parvati is a Hindu from India, yes?

Your religion.

So we're going to discuss a bit about Hinduism, it's not a  topic that is often discussed at speaker's corner.  

The reason is for that is because we have very few  Hindus who come to speaker's corner to talk about  

the religion the faith.

So we're hoping to that  there will be more Hindus who would step forward

and talk about the faith. It's just that there  is a lot of misunderstanding amongst the Hindus  

about Muslims and amongst the Muslims about the  Hindus.

So it's always good to have a conversation

to have a direct conversation with the person about their religion rather than assuming things about their religion.  

So Parvati, tell us a bit about yourself, what do you do? and

what your interests are?

Your first time in speaker's corner, isn't it?

Yes, we've been here for a year

you need to speak up a bit because I want to make  sure the microphone picks up the audio.

Yeah, sure

I've been here for a year.

Okay,

We're studying fluid mechanics.

fluid mechanics

yeah

Masha 'Allah, that's good

and yeah that's good, is it masters?

Yeah, it's masters.

Okay, that's good and

yeah so

about Hinduism, tell us a bit about the basics  of Hinduism, like what is it that a Hindu  

has to believe in, otherwise they are outside the  fold of Hinduism, can you perhaps give us a bit?   

Just a summarized version of the belief.

So I'm not like a certified speaker of Hinduism

but what I've learned from my family

is that....

it's more about having...

it's more about the same stuff you know, you spread love and you know...  

Yeah, I think like there is no like

at least according to me we don't have very rigid rules in Hinduism

such that if you

so for example, even when it comes to prayer like

so I think that's the difference between  at least according to me between Islam and Hinduism.  

Prayers,

yeah, prayer times

we don't have like fixed prayer times

right

and

so we have a few things like  before going to the temple  

you take a bath

things like that, but these are things that you need to follow,

but

I'm not aware of anything that can put you  out oust

that can oust you from the Hindu community.

So you know, as Muslims we believe in the five  pillars, you must have heard about this, yeah?

No, I'm sorry.

Okay, so basically the fundamental belief  of a Muslim is in the five pillars

which are basically to believe in one God, yes!

to pray five times a day, to give zakat or charity,

to fast in the month of Ramadan and if you can afford it and  are capable of, to go to hajj once in your lifetime, at least.  

So these are the five fundamental  what is the pillars of Islam.

So anyone who

rejects any of these, they are outside the fall  of Islam.

okay

So obviously, for a Hindu

you have to believe in God, right?

Yeah.

So what is the concept of God in Hinduism because

there are many people who say that Hindus believe  in 313 million Gods or something like that  

how true is that?

So it's not, you don't have Gods as a person.

So each God represents an idea

or

so you have Parvati,

she is the goddess  of power of love

Sorry! which Goddess?

Parvati.

Parvati, okay.

Is the goddess of power.

Is that the wife of Shiva?

Yeah.

Okay.

So they all represent values.

They're not like entities, they're not like

so we

that's what I've been taught like

they'll see, you have a God in yourself like everybody has  the capability of becoming a God and

Hinduism the definition of God, the definition of divinity is to  be a better person than what you were yesterday.

So

okay.

The whole idea, it's like you have

when we actually go to the temple you pray for

two different Gods, right!

so it's mostly like to lord Ganapathi you always say you start with God

Is that Ganesh?

Yeah, Ganesh,

Ganesh, the elephant God?

Yeah, so things like that, so every God represents a value.

So it's not like

so you do have a lot of Gods,  you have a lot of stories actually.

How many Gods?

I'm not sure

okay

a lot of Gods

lost count

because you have a lot of values, right.

You have a lot of morals, you can

you know there are Gods for

there's a cloud God,

there is a different kinds of Gods.

So nature worship and creature worship.

Yeah yeah, so every

God represents a different idea,

so it's almost like you kind of respect your nature, your fellow beings

it's kind of abstract I feel, I don't think  that basically you know it means like you have  

this particular God like you should.

It's not

God it's more like ideals and morals like, yeah.

Okay, so they're just like concepts of nature or  creatures?

Yeah, that's what I

like hanuman is a monkey god

and Ganesh is elephant God, so this's a  form of creature worship and

it's a mythology, right.

yeah,

you have Greek mythology, so you have  Hindu mythologies also.

You have stories, from these stories

we derive morals like

so if you have a lord Ram and Seeta, theirs is about a husband wife union

and you know how the wife and the  husband they make compromises

basically how they are individuals, but they also are there for each  other.

You know, basically when you

so for me

at least for me, when my parents told me the story,  it was so that I could inculcate a moral out of the story   

because when you talk to children, they don't

it's easy to tell them a story and tell them

see this is what it means, that will stay for  a long time.

Right.

So most the mythology is like story.

What makes, for example you give the example  of Ram and Seeta, yeah!

so what makes Ram God?

Yeah, so Rama is a

he was actually a king it's not like

so what made Rama God like

his

really good nature.

Like people believe

I told you that God is something that Hindus

like in the Hinduism, they believe as inside

even you can become a God.

You can become a God?!

Yeah,

Okay.

The concept of God.

It's not like God does magic or anything.

So I think that's what we need to understand

the definition of God maybe is different  in Hinduism to that in Islam, because in Islam  

when you say God you're talking about the most  powerful being, yeah?

Yeah,

he's the almighty,

he's the one who created everyone and everything.

Yes, so we have that.

Okay, so our concept is not just a a good moral human being, yes!

like for example we believe in prophet Muhammad (PBUH), yes!

and we believe he's one of the best role models and he's the one who is  called the mercy to mankind yeah!

he's called

Rahmatul lil Alameen

He came as a mercy to man kind. However, regardless  of how good the morals the prophet (PBUH) possessed  

we do not still worship him.

He is still one of the servants of Allah and a creation of Allah.

So I think this is where the Hindus and  the Muslims perhaps differ

in the definition of what God is.

Yeah.

Yes, but do you believe in the

you know, the Tri Murthy or the Brahma

Vishnu and Shi..

is it Brahma

Vishnu and Shiv

isn't it?

Yeah.

So you have the

Brahma is a creator.

The creator

Vishnu, the sustainer.

Yeah.

And Shiv's the destroyer.

Yeah

So these are the

I know a bit of Hinduism, so

that's the reason I know this Tri Murthy is quite important.

So, is someone who doesn't believe  in this Tri Murthy, are they considered Hindu or  

would they be?

I think so at least

I mean

yeah

I feel Hinduism is all about you know

you could be a better person, you see God in yourself

I don't mean it in an egoistic way

I'm here and I'm...

No no, I understand, yeah.

You see, you try to be a better person than what you were yesterday.

So that is

So it sounds like Hinduism  is more of a philosophy rather than a religion.

Yeah yeah.

Because obviously everyone also has a different  viewpoint on the beliefs and whatever is written  

and the interpretations in the Bhagavad-Gita  in the Upanishads the Vedas and so on, yeah?  

So these are the books, the different books of Hindus, the scriptures.  

How much importance do you give to the scriptures,  as a Hindu?

So very honestly, I haven't read the scriptures.

None of them?

No, I just know the mythology and the stories.

Okay

and because

so we have in Hinduism, we have prayers and we  have scriptures where you have morals and stories,  

but they are also told in the form of stories of  Gods and so

I haven't read the scriptures.

Right, so it's more like stories like you  keep saying which teaches you morals

yeah,

yes and

like what about going to the temple or something  for prayers, is that necessary or is that also optional?   

So it is good to go to the temple,

right

but it's not like if you don't go to the temple

you'll be ousted from the Hindu community.

you can pray at home?

Yeah yeah, definitely

you don't have to go to the temple.

Okay, and with regards to  prayer another question that pops into my head is

do you have to pray to these pictures of like Rama  or Shiva or Krishna or whatever Gods you have  

an affiliation to?

Because I think

because you're from south India, I think they have different

what do you say, God that they revere  compared to the ones in north India

compared to the ones in Bengal, in east India and maybe  in Gujarat in west India, you know.

Like, I think every region has their own, what do you say special  deities that

they pray to or they idolize.

Is that right? or

yeah, it's right. It's also very personal actually like for example

my mom, she does not really look at the picture anyway,  she closes her eyes and prays

but she still has the image in front of her?

No, she just closes her eyes.

Okay, she closes her eyes and prays

because

so she has arthritis she can't sit down,  so she sits on a chair and she just prays.

Okay

what about yourself?

I pray looking at the God

so I look at the God and I think I close my eyes

it's very

Yeah, personal

personal and it just happens

wait a minute brother just

we are just discussing about the basics. Yeah, just bear with us please here.

So the reason I asked about the idol worship is because  in Islam that is something which is prohibited  

completely like utterly, to have images of god is  something prohibited not only in Islam also in  

Christianity I believe and obviously in Judaism as  well so the what we consider the Abrahamic faith  

you know because all three religions they consider  Abraham to be a prophet of God and they have a common  

what do you say, a common understanding and there is  a lot of commonality between these three faiths.

So in all of these three faiths, I mean creating images  of God is something that is completely prohibited,  

but I think in Hinduism it's a big part,  it plays a big part from what I've seen.

so the reason why this is

what I think and I'm pretty sure the reason why we have pictures is so that

you feel more connected in the sense  you have a picture in your head  

it's always like that, right! so if I think of a tree pops up in my hand ,right!

yes

if I think of a well

or something like Goddess Lakshmi

you try to associate which is more easy for you to think of what you

what are, you know!

what you want to pray about

you know, I think these are shortcuts.

But these pictures are man-made, aren't they? No one has seen any of these Gods or Goddesses.

They have just

because I've also seen different pictures.

Yeah.

Yes, so it's kind of

symbolic

yeah

so Parvati will have a trident you know, so it's all symbolic

whatever they hold

yeah

it's not like the facial features are going to be the same for everybody.

This is that the things that they hold, the kind of

the color of the dress they wear, it's all symbolic.

Symbolic!

Yeah.

Okay.

But it's not compulsory for you to  pray in front of a picture or an idol,  

it's not compulsory. It's just for something for you to focus on.

Yeah, you see we believe in meditation, right! so we  think even closing your eyes is prayer like  

as long as you are praying you can do it in  any form.

Okay, interesting I mean what about

the different, I don't know. Do you still have caste system in Hinduism

Yes, we do have

you still do

but

that is started from really long time back

right

we still do have costs.

What does it mean?

I mean for the viewers who don't know.

So it started with the occupation you were doing like long long long back.

so there

the kind of work that they were involved in, okay.

all four kinds of people I think so the ones were kings,  like the you know kings and so they were called  

brahmanas and there were...

no actually the kings were not the brahmans

the kings were Shatria Aasan

Yeah, Shatrias

yeah, so the Brahmans are educated, scholarly.

Yeah, scholar and there were workers.

Yeah, that comes later. So you got the Brahmans then  you have the shatrias are the warriors.

The warrior clan and obviously the kings as well.

Yeah.

And then you had the Shudras.

Yeah

because the Shudras are the lowest, isn't it?

Which is like the untouchables even, I think.

The thing is, it started with the occupation.

They were all

yeah, they were all restricted earlier, but  I think it got translated in a really bad way

with the coming generations and it just started leading  you know you say this person is not good enough  

and the other person, his status is bigger.  So it got translated in a very wrong way.

Okay

so with regards to for example, is it true that  the brahmins do not even touch the Shudras?

the lowest class.

So sensible people don't believe such things.

What do you mean sensible people?

Because as far as I know the Brahmins are the  most educated amongst these

not anymore.

When you go to college

you will be educated I'm not a Brahman

you can go to the college, I am educated.

My friend could be a Brahman,

but she's not as educated as me

so it's not

I think what I meant by educated is in terms of

the religious books.

Not really,

No.

So they know the language, they know Sanskrit, they are the ones who

who maintain these different books and  rules and so on.

Not so much.

No not anymore?!

Okay.

Maybe things have changed because if I remember  correctly

everybody has access to the same stuff these days

because of the internet, so anybody can be  good at anything.

Okay, but why would they

why would they have this rule or is it  written in the way does that they cannot touch  

the Shudras? The lower cost? or is this something  that they made up?

It wasn't like that.

It was an occupation, so every occupation  was respected. Nobody, it was never meant for  

the Shudras to be disrespected in such a way, but I  think as humans we also have a bad side to us

we tend to think we are more important than the other  or something like that, but it got translated in a really bad way.  

You know, whatever it was

but it's still there, isn't it?

Exactly,

it's still there?

Yes, so that is something that we need  to

so the Brahmans wouldn't marry anyone other than in their own?

That's what I said

yeah

there will always be a community, that is pretty much here

and you know, they don't really follow  logic or reasoning.

There will be communities like that, but it is changing for the  good.

Well, I don't know if it's changed I think

I think it's changing.

The Brahmans still wouldn't  marry someone outside the caste, right?  

No, not at all.

No, not anymore?

No.

Okay, because I remember seeing ads in the paper where

they said they would only marry from the  caste.

Yeah, there are people like that, but

the majority of the people are not like that  for sure.

Okay, no that's good if it's changing

and I think the British had a huge part to play in  that, isn't it?

Really, they wanted to split India, right! and it was divide and ruled

No no, that's different, yeah.  Obviously, on a political...

Yeah, but even when it

came to people personally, they definitely, I think they have did that approach.

Because their point was to have a monopoly of you know, basically a rule over people

and how could you do that by making them fight.

So I'm not sure about that history.

Because it caused a lot of

unwanted what do you say,  problems in the society in that.  

Maybe it's for their own what he say,

for the ease of their own administration and so on.

Yeah, I'm not sure about it,

it could have happened.

Okay, sorry you wanted to say something

I got a small,

I'm sorry for interruption

Yeah.

I mean two questions, you answered the first one

about the system.

My question is about, what is the concept of aathma, I think you know aathma

Aathma!

Yeah yeah.

the soul.

The soul is the concept, what is the concept aathma? And what is the concept of death in Hinduism?

I think he's pointing towards reincarnation.

I mean reincarnation for women...

That is one of the questions I had for you, yeah!  because

Aathma, where's aathma?

As far as I know

it's like, they say

I'm not sure where this comes from 

but they say you keep on

re taking, rebirth until your life's purpose  is fulfilled

until Mukta.

Yeah, until you gain

Yeah, so mukta is basically free from,

free from this cycle.

Free from the cycle of birth and rebirth.

Yeah.

So birth and death is

so it's birth, death and rebirth. This is the reincarnation cycle that the Hindus believe in.

And they believe that one of the  main

correct me if I'm wrong, one of the main objectives of

every human being, at least in the Hindu faith is  to free themselves from this cycle of birth and rebirth  

and the only way they can achieve this  is by being a good human being, a good person and  

I don't know, I mean this is what I heard maybe  you can elaborate on that.