(piano playing)
(piano playing)

Narrator: I think sometimes when we're talking
Narrator: I think sometimes when we're talking

about our history, we forget that the people
about our history, we forget that the people

who are making this are really artists.
who are making this are really artists.

So, it's really important to have a sense
So, it's really important to have a sense

of what this material feels like
of what this material feels like

and why people used it.
and why people used it.

What we have up on the screen is
What we have up on the screen is

a [sezicaria] altarpiece painting
a [sezicaria] altarpiece painting

by Giovanni Boldini who is known
by Giovanni Boldini who is known

for this vivid color and very complex,
for this vivid color and very complex,

sort of atmospheres, glorious luminosity
sort of atmospheres, glorious luminosity

in his paintings.
in his paintings.

In fact, he used oil paint in a really interesting way.
In fact, he used oil paint in a really interesting way.

Oil paint has a kind of translucency
Oil paint has a kind of translucency

and he really used that to advantage,
and he really used that to advantage,

but in a way that modern painters don't generally.
but in a way that modern painters don't generally.

Female: Can you explain what that means?
Female: Can you explain what that means?

Translucency?
Translucency?

Narrator: What is oil paint?
Narrator: What is oil paint?

Isaac, when you paint, you don't go
Isaac, when you paint, you don't go

and grind your minerals and add linseed oil to it, do you?
and grind your minerals and add linseed oil to it, do you?

Isaac: No, not at all.
Isaac: No, not at all.

But that's what they would have done
But that's what they would have done

in the time of Boldini.
in the time of Boldini.

Narrator: How does he get this kind of jewel like color?
Narrator: How does he get this kind of jewel like color?

That's something that we might have expected
That's something that we might have expected

to see in northern painting in the 15th century.
to see in northern painting in the 15th century.

Isaac: Well, it comes from northern painting.
Isaac: Well, it comes from northern painting.

Oil paint have different consistencies
Oil paint have different consistencies

depending on what varnish you use with them.
depending on what varnish you use with them.

If you use damar resin with them.
If you use damar resin with them.

Damar resin is just a natural tree sap.
Damar resin is just a natural tree sap.

It looks just like amber. It's like a jewel
It looks just like amber. It's like a jewel

and what you do is dissolve this into turpentine
and what you do is dissolve this into turpentine

and then mix it with the oil paint
and then mix it with the oil paint

in order to make these transparent glass-like,
in order to make these transparent glass-like,

they're just panes of paint.
they're just panes of paint.

They're almost like stained glass layers
They're almost like stained glass layers

of translucent paint.
of translucent paint.

Narrator: So, when the light hits this,
Narrator: So, when the light hits this,

the light is not hitting just the top surface
the light is not hitting just the top surface

of the canvas and the paint on the canvas.
of the canvas and the paint on the canvas.

It's not sort of an opaque layer.
It's not sort of an opaque layer.

What you're saying is that light
What you're saying is that light

is actually entering in, almost like a prism.
is actually entering in, almost like a prism.

Isaac: The light can enter through all of them
Isaac: The light can enter through all of them

and go to the white surface before it reflects back.
and go to the white surface before it reflects back.

So, they seem to glow from the inside.
So, they seem to glow from the inside.

Narrator: So, that really is like a gem.
Narrator: So, that really is like a gem.

That's really what happens when you look at a diamond.
That's really what happens when you look at a diamond.

Light is entering. It's bouncing around inside
Light is entering. It's bouncing around inside

before it finally comes back out again.
before it finally comes back out again.

Isaac: Yeah.
Isaac: Yeah.

Female: So, I think a lot of people have this idea
Female: So, I think a lot of people have this idea

of oil paint as being kind of a thick and gooey substance,
of oil paint as being kind of a thick and gooey substance,

but the way that you're talking about it
but the way that you're talking about it

with Renaissance artists applying thin glazes
with Renaissance artists applying thin glazes

of color and many layers of that,
of color and many layers of that,

it's a very, very different idea of oil paint application.
it's a very, very different idea of oil paint application.

It's not thick gooey-ness, but a rather
It's not thick gooey-ness, but a rather

thin layers of it. Is that right?
thin layers of it. Is that right?

Narrator: That makes sense to me.
Narrator: That makes sense to me.

And so that means that when Boldini was painting this,
And so that means that when Boldini was painting this,

he must have been painting ...
he must have been painting ...

Let's, for instance, if you look at
Let's, for instance, if you look at

that brilliant blue of the Virgin Mary's dress,
that brilliant blue of the Virgin Mary's dress,

it wouldn't have been that blue on his brush.
it wouldn't have been that blue on his brush.

It would have been that blue very, very thinned out.
It would have been that blue very, very thinned out.

Female: Does anyone know how many layers they applied?
Female: Does anyone know how many layers they applied?

Narrator: Well, I've heard in the dozens.
Narrator: Well, I've heard in the dozens.

Female: Really?
Female: Really?

Narrator: Yeah.
Narrator: Yeah.

Female: The paint had to dry in between each layer
Female: The paint had to dry in between each layer

completely, right?
completely, right?

Narrator: Right.
Narrator: Right.

Isaac: But what damar does, is damar speeds up
Isaac: But what damar does, is damar speeds up

the drying a little bit.
the drying a little bit.

Female: Oh. So, how long would it take
Female: Oh. So, how long would it take

a layer to dry normally?
a layer to dry normally?

Narrator: Well, it depends on how much ...
Narrator: Well, it depends on how much ...

Female: Humidity is in the air?
Female: Humidity is in the air?

Narrator: And how much oil there is.
Narrator: And how much oil there is.

I mean, there are those stories
I mean, there are those stories

of very heavily built up canvases by Van Gogh.
of very heavily built up canvases by Van Gogh.

You have a skin that is dry,
You have a skin that is dry,

but inside there's probably still some viscosity.
but inside there's probably still some viscosity.

Female: Uh-huh.
Female: Uh-huh.

Narrator: So, this luminosity,
Narrator: So, this luminosity,

this brilliance of color
this brilliance of color

is a really important characteristic of oil paint,
is a really important characteristic of oil paint,

but there's another important characteristic
but there's another important characteristic

of oil paint which really differentiates it from tempera
of oil paint which really differentiates it from tempera

before it, which is that if you're not using the damar
before it, which is that if you're not using the damar

that the oil would have this really sort of
that the oil would have this really sort of

wonderful liquid quality and it allows for
wonderful liquid quality and it allows for

the paint to come off the brush in a very long stroke
the paint to come off the brush in a very long stroke

and it allows for the paint to be mixed on the canvas
and it allows for the paint to be mixed on the canvas

as opposed to just on the palette.
as opposed to just on the palette.

This is Turner's Rain Steam Speed,
This is Turner's Rain Steam Speed,

The Great Western Railway.
The Great Western Railway.

Female: So, you think Turner is actually
Female: So, you think Turner is actually

mixing the paints on the canvas?
mixing the paints on the canvas?

Narrator: Oh, that's a tough one. I don't know exactly.
Narrator: Oh, that's a tough one. I don't know exactly.

Isaac: I think so. Yeah.
Isaac: I think so. Yeah.

I would build on what you said about oils.
I would build on what you said about oils.

This tempera is relatively flat, as is acrylic
This tempera is relatively flat, as is acrylic

and, sort of, the best tempera I think of
and, sort of, the best tempera I think of

is Botticelli's work where it's very linear
is Botticelli's work where it's very linear

and all the colors form these flat, kind of,
and all the colors form these flat, kind of,

interlaced lines.
interlaced lines.

Female: Like hatching? Where it's like you're hatching.
Female: Like hatching? Where it's like you're hatching.

Isaac: Yeah, like hatching.
Isaac: Yeah, like hatching.

The basic unit of the painting is line,
The basic unit of the painting is line,

but in oils the basic unit is surface
but in oils the basic unit is surface

or atmosphere. It becomes infinitely more complex.
or atmosphere. It becomes infinitely more complex.

One color can penetrate another
One color can penetrate another

and just by working with two colors
and just by working with two colors

you can get an infinite array of colors.
you can get an infinite array of colors.

My position, I guess, on Turner,
My position, I guess, on Turner,

knowing the repetidy of his pace
knowing the repetidy of his pace

is that with this painting, yeah,
is that with this painting, yeah,

he probably let the colors be alive
he probably let the colors be alive

and mix them on top of each other
and mix them on top of each other

and allow them to penetrate each other
and allow them to penetrate each other

and emerge and sink down beneath one another.
and emerge and sink down beneath one another.

Narrator: That sounds so much more
Narrator: That sounds so much more

as if the process of painting exists
as if the process of painting exists

in this direct confrontation of the artist
in this direct confrontation of the artist

and the canvas as opposed to something
and the canvas as opposed to something

that's much more premeditated, much more sort of
that's much more premeditated, much more sort of

worked out and more completely preconceived.
worked out and more completely preconceived.

What I'm thinking about is here
What I'm thinking about is here

we have a much more modest canvas
we have a much more modest canvas

and I'm wondering ...
and I'm wondering ...

Isaac: Right.
Isaac: Right.

Narrator: ... how much of a role media played ...
Narrator: ... how much of a role media played ...

Female: Yes.
Female: Yes.

Narrator: ... in the development of modernism
Narrator: ... in the development of modernism

as an aesthetic.
as an aesthetic.

In this canvas we have this ...
In this canvas we have this ...

We have a painting that was criticized.
We have a painting that was criticized.

A perfect exemplar of modernity ripping through
A perfect exemplar of modernity ripping through

what have been a pastoral landscape.
what have been a pastoral landscape.

Female: So, what comes first though?
Female: So, what comes first though?

There's a kind of individualist part
There's a kind of individualist part

of the, kind of, romantic sensibility
of the, kind of, romantic sensibility

at this birth of modernism,
at this birth of modernism,

but it does fit so perfectly with the medium of oil paint
but it does fit so perfectly with the medium of oil paint

and oil paint fits well in other ways
and oil paint fits well in other ways

with modernism, right?
with modernism, right?

It's something that can go on wooden panels
It's something that can go on wooden panels

or on canvas. It can be bought and sold
or on canvas. It can be bought and sold

and moved around and treated as private property.
and moved around and treated as private property.

There's so many things about oil paint
There's so many things about oil paint

that allow for this development of modernism in a way.
that allow for this development of modernism in a way.

Narrator: It's true.
Narrator: It's true.

Even the heroism of paint,
Even the heroism of paint,

and that's something I think is worth touching on.
and that's something I think is worth touching on.

The idea of this extraordinary, sort of,
The idea of this extraordinary, sort of,

expressive brush stroke.
expressive brush stroke.

Female: Right.
Female: Right.

Narrator: I'm thinking about the work of Velasquez.
Narrator: I'm thinking about the work of Velasquez.

There's a kind of heroism in there
There's a kind of heroism in there

that I think becomes very much rooted in this
that I think becomes very much rooted in this

notion of the individual.
notion of the individual.

Female: And it's kind of virtuosity ...
Female: And it's kind of virtuosity ...

Narrator: Absolutely.
Narrator: Absolutely.

Female: ... that one can show off with the brush.
Female: ... that one can show off with the brush.

Isaac: You know, oil paint is the most
Isaac: You know, oil paint is the most

historical medium. It's the medium of modernity
historical medium. It's the medium of modernity

and I've never found myself able to use,
and I've never found myself able to use,

what for some reason, the bias in my mind
what for some reason, the bias in my mind

from my education considered weaker media.
from my education considered weaker media.

My latest thing is to paint with water colors.
My latest thing is to paint with water colors.

Female: The weakest medium?
Female: The weakest medium?

Isaac: Yeah. The associations of being feminine
Isaac: Yeah. The associations of being feminine

and delicate.
and delicate.

Female: Yeah, women painted in water color.
Female: Yeah, women painted in water color.

Isaac: Yeah.
Isaac: Yeah.

Female: As amateurs, so I can't take it as something
Female: As amateurs, so I can't take it as something

that serious artists do.
that serious artists do.

Isaac: Yeah, but now I'm kind of interested
Isaac: Yeah, but now I'm kind of interested

in those issues. Like, why are the materials so gender-ed?
in those issues. Like, why are the materials so gender-ed?

Narrator: Material is really sort of critical.
Narrator: Material is really sort of critical.

It doesn't only allow us to create a work of art,
It doesn't only allow us to create a work of art,

but it absolutely informs what that work of art means.
but it absolutely informs what that work of art means.

(piano playing)
(piano playing)