(piano playing)
(piano playing)

Beth Harris: So, let's talk about mannerist.
Beth Harris: So, let's talk about mannerist.

The mannerist style and how it appears
The mannerist style and how it appears

in portrait painting.
in portrait painting.

David Drogin: Okay.
David Drogin: Okay.

Beth: So, this is by Bronzino?
Beth: So, this is by Bronzino?

David: This is a painting by Bronzino.
David: This is a painting by Bronzino.

This is called A Portrait of a Young Man
This is called A Portrait of a Young Man

from around 1540.
from around 1540.

We don't know exactly who it is
We don't know exactly who it is

and therefore it has that title and it's located
and therefore it has that title and it's located

in New York City at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
in New York City at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Beth: So, we can all go see it.
Beth: So, we can all go see it.

David: We can all go see it if we're in New York.
David: We can all go see it if we're in New York.

Yes, absolutely.
Yes, absolutely.

Beth: You know, it looks so elegant.
Beth: You know, it looks so elegant.

And so, immediately I think of mannerism.
And so, immediately I think of mannerism.

David: Yeah, absolutely.
David: Yeah, absolutely.

The elegance of the image, both in terms of
The elegance of the image, both in terms of

the way that it's painted and in terms of
the way that it's painted and in terms of

how this young man presents himself to the things
how this young man presents himself to the things

that really stand out,
that really stand out,

so actually maybe we should start by saying,
so actually maybe we should start by saying,

in general, what some trademarks of mannerisms are
in general, what some trademarks of mannerisms are

and how this relates to it.
and how this relates to it.

Beth: So, that elegance.
Beth: So, that elegance.

David: Okay, elegance is definitely one thing.
David: Okay, elegance is definitely one thing.

A kind of hyper-sophisticated elegance.
A kind of hyper-sophisticated elegance.

Other things that are typical of mannerism
Other things that are typical of mannerism

include a very enigmatic quality, a puzzling quality.
include a very enigmatic quality, a puzzling quality.

Beth: Right. Things that don't make sense.
Beth: Right. Things that don't make sense.

David: The harder a mannerist image is to understand,
David: The harder a mannerist image is to understand,

the better it was to a certain extent.
the better it was to a certain extent.

Beth: Right. And they seem to almost
Beth: Right. And they seem to almost

make things confusing on purpose.
make things confusing on purpose.

David: Absolutely.
David: Absolutely.

And then also, another important characteristic
And then also, another important characteristic

of mannerism, and we could say this about sculpture as well,
of mannerism, and we could say this about sculpture as well,

is that the artist virtuosity becomes an integral part
is that the artist virtuosity becomes an integral part

of the work of arts meaning.
of the work of arts meaning.

Some people call mannerism the stylish style.
Some people call mannerism the stylish style.

Not only because of the subject matter and how it's presented,
Not only because of the subject matter and how it's presented,

but also because of the creation of the work of art
but also because of the creation of the work of art

and its technical difficulty, the kind of
and its technical difficulty, the kind of

fireworks display of technical skill is also an important aspect.
fireworks display of technical skill is also an important aspect.

Beth: And sometimes I think that it almost seems like
Beth: And sometimes I think that it almost seems like

if they did things wrong, they were kind of showing off
if they did things wrong, they were kind of showing off

a kind of sophistication in an odd way.
a kind of sophistication in an odd way.

David: Absolutely, or at least making you wonder
David: Absolutely, or at least making you wonder

if they did it wrong is part of what
if they did it wrong is part of what

a mannerist artist might do.
a mannerist artist might do.

Beth: Right. I thought I remembered one artist
Beth: Right. I thought I remembered one artist

writing to another one, "Next time you do a
writing to another one, "Next time you do a

painting of the figure, put the right hand
painting of the figure, put the right hand

on the left arm."
on the left arm."

David: That wouldn't surprise me.
David: That wouldn't surprise me.

Beth: To do it wrong in a way, doing it wrong,
Beth: To do it wrong in a way, doing it wrong,

proved that you knew how to do it right.
proved that you knew how to do it right.

David: Yep.
David: Yep.

Beth: So easily that it was a kind of showing off
Beth: So easily that it was a kind of showing off

to do it wrong.
to do it wrong.

David: Sure, sure.
David: Sure, sure.

And also we should say, these characteristics,
And also we should say, these characteristics,

the reason why they emerged, there's lots
the reason why they emerged, there's lots

of different theories people have.
of different theories people have.

In part perhaps because a new generation of artists
In part perhaps because a new generation of artists

starting with Pontormo, but then also
starting with Pontormo, but then also

Parmigiano and Bronzino.
Parmigiano and Bronzino.

They needed to do something different.
They needed to do something different.

They felt like all of the possibilities
They felt like all of the possibilities

had been exhausted in the high Renaissance,
had been exhausted in the high Renaissance,

the works or Leonardo and Michael Angelo
the works or Leonardo and Michael Angelo

and Raphael and Tischen.
and Raphael and Tischen.

Beth: Well, it does kind seem after the school
Beth: Well, it does kind seem after the school

of Athens that the height of naturalism
of Athens that the height of naturalism

of what the Renaissance wanted to do had been reached
of what the Renaissance wanted to do had been reached

and what was there for new artists to do?
and what was there for new artists to do?

David: And so a new generation of artists
David: And so a new generation of artists

turned away from the priorities of naturalism
turned away from the priorities of naturalism

and classicism and the overwriting logic
and classicism and the overwriting logic

that we saw in the earlier 1500's.
that we saw in the earlier 1500's.

Also, mannerism can be tied to the Medici,
Also, mannerism can be tied to the Medici,

both in terms of the election of a Medici Pope,
both in terms of the election of a Medici Pope,

Leo X in 1513, but also the return of the Medici
Leo X in 1513, but also the return of the Medici

to Florence in the teens and especially
to Florence in the teens and especially

in the 20's and 30's.
in the 20's and 30's.

Beth: So, what was it about the Medici?
Beth: So, what was it about the Medici?

David: Well, when they become Popes
David: Well, when they become Popes

and when they return as Duke's of Florence, ultimately,
and when they return as Duke's of Florence, ultimately,

they cultivate a very, very sophisticated court
they cultivate a very, very sophisticated court

because they want to prove that they are peers
because they want to prove that they are peers

of the great court rulers of Europe.
of the great court rulers of Europe.

So, the mannerist style develops in a way,
So, the mannerist style develops in a way,

in partnership with these efforts of their leadership
in partnership with these efforts of their leadership

to create a, as I said before, a hyper-sophisticated
to create a, as I said before, a hyper-sophisticated

elegant setting for their court.
elegant setting for their court.

Beth: So, the Medici are no longer pretending
Beth: So, the Medici are no longer pretending

to be allies of the republic and they're really
to be allies of the republic and they're really

in a way, embracing a kind of aristocratic lifestyle.
in a way, embracing a kind of aristocratic lifestyle.

David: Yes, certainly by the middle of the 1500's, definitely.
David: Yes, certainly by the middle of the 1500's, definitely.

So, let's talk about how this image
So, let's talk about how this image

reflects these kinds of ideas and themes.
reflects these kinds of ideas and themes.

Beth: Yeah.
Beth: Yeah.

David: First of all, obviously,
David: First of all, obviously,

the way the young man is dressed, the way
the way the young man is dressed, the way

that he's standing, the expression on his face
that he's standing, the expression on his face

all seem to exude this very cool sophistication.
all seem to exude this very cool sophistication.

Beth: Detachment.
Beth: Detachment.

David: A great detachment and a hyper-articulated elegance.
David: A great detachment and a hyper-articulated elegance.

All of these things are, in a way,
All of these things are, in a way,

characteristic of both manneristic life
characteristic of both manneristic life

as it was lived and mannerist art.
as it was lived and mannerist art.

We could also talk about the way that it's painted.
We could also talk about the way that it's painted.

Bronzino is one of the masters of the oil painting
Bronzino is one of the masters of the oil painting

technique of the 16th century and when you're standing
technique of the 16th century and when you're standing

in front of this painting and looking at it,
in front of this painting and looking at it,

it's hard to see how it was actually painted.
it's hard to see how it was actually painted.

You can barely see any kind of brush stroke
You can barely see any kind of brush stroke

or any kind of surface texture.
or any kind of surface texture.

Beth: So polished.
Beth: So polished.

David: Exactly. It's as if he's transcended
David: Exactly. It's as if he's transcended

the medium itself in it's creation,
the medium itself in it's creation,

which was also definitely a goal of a mannerist artist.
which was also definitely a goal of a mannerist artist.

Beth: Right.
Beth: Right.

David: What else can we say about it in terms of mannerism?
David: What else can we say about it in terms of mannerism?

Beth: He looks, you know, very distant,
Beth: He looks, you know, very distant,

very detached, but also in a way, very posed to me.
very detached, but also in a way, very posed to me.

Like this is not a position that one would catch
Like this is not a position that one would catch

one in naturally.
one in naturally.

David: Exactly. He hasn't been caught off guard.
David: Exactly. He hasn't been caught off guard.

Beth: No, he looks like he's very much
Beth: No, he looks like he's very much

like a model, sort of taking a pose.
like a model, sort of taking a pose.

David: That's true and that's an important part
David: That's true and that's an important part

both of mannerist culture as it was actually lived
both of mannerist culture as it was actually lived

and mannerist portraiture.
and mannerist portraiture.

The idea of the pose, the conspicuous nature
The idea of the pose, the conspicuous nature

of posing was actually something that people
of posing was actually something that people

looked upon favorably.
looked upon favorably.

Beth: It's so weird because we kind of look down at it.
Beth: It's so weird because we kind of look down at it.

We think people are insincere.
We think people are insincere.

David: We have a different take on it, certainly.
David: We have a different take on it, certainly.

Beth: Right.
Beth: Right.

David: But at the time, especially in the Medici
David: But at the time, especially in the Medici

circles of this period, obviously artificiality
circles of this period, obviously artificiality

was a goal of proper social behavior in elite circles.
was a goal of proper social behavior in elite circles.

Your identity was something that was to be performed.
Your identity was something that was to be performed.

You presented yourself to be seen in a certain way.
You presented yourself to be seen in a certain way.

And it was understood to be a performance,
And it was understood to be a performance,

something artificial.
something artificial.

It was supposed to seem effortless,
It was supposed to seem effortless,

but it was supposed to be clear that the real you,
but it was supposed to be clear that the real you,

whoever you were, was not something on display.
whoever you were, was not something on display.

That would be gouache.
That would be gouache.

Instead, a very polished artificial, superficial
Instead, a very polished artificial, superficial

kind of performance is how you presented yourself
kind of performance is how you presented yourself

in these court circles and as we can see,
in these court circles and as we can see,

actually in this painting, as well.
actually in this painting, as well.

Beth: So a kind of mask.
Beth: So a kind of mask.

David: Absolutely.
David: Absolutely.

Beth: And that kind of fits in here.
Beth: And that kind of fits in here.

David: Mannerists were obsessed with masks
David: Mannerists were obsessed with masks

because of this idea that it presented
because of this idea that it presented

something to be seen and it was obviously
something to be seen and it was obviously

hiding something underneath.
hiding something underneath.

This painting addresses those kinds of themes
This painting addresses those kinds of themes

in several ways.
in several ways.

First of all, because of his conspicuous pose,
First of all, because of his conspicuous pose,

as we can see it, and usually a portrait
as we can see it, and usually a portrait

is to present someone's physical appearance
is to present someone's physical appearance

and identity, but the way he's looking at us,
and identity, but the way he's looking at us,

it's almost as if he's saying,
it's almost as if he's saying,

Beth: "Who I am." Right.
Beth: "Who I am." Right.

David: Which is very, very typically mannerist.
David: Which is very, very typically mannerist.

Beth: He also seems to be condescending to us,
Beth: He also seems to be condescending to us,

in a way.
in a way.

David: Perfectly, absolutely.
David: Perfectly, absolutely.

So, there's all of that just in the way
So, there's all of that just in the way

that he presents himself, it's typically mannerist,
that he presents himself, it's typically mannerist,

but to return to the idea of the mask,
but to return to the idea of the mask,

there are several masks or references
there are several masks or references

to masks in the painting.
to masks in the painting.

Some people say that his hard, kind of,
Some people say that his hard, kind of,

porcelain like skin makes his face look like a mask.
porcelain like skin makes his face look like a mask.

Beth: Yeah.
Beth: Yeah.

David: Especially because his eyes
David: Especially because his eyes

don't look in the same direction.
don't look in the same direction.

Beth: And also the way that the light, sort of,
Beth: And also the way that the light, sort of,

falls on his face.
falls on his face.

David: Yep, it is very, very mask like,
David: Yep, it is very, very mask like,

but then we can also look at the face
but then we can also look at the face

that's like a mask at the edge of the table
that's like a mask at the edge of the table

facing out towards the viewer
facing out towards the viewer

and there's another one on the arm of the chair
and there's another one on the arm of the chair

in the lower right and then if you look very carefully,
in the lower right and then if you look very carefully,

at the very bottom of the painting, the folds
at the very bottom of the painting, the folds

in the fabric of his pants leg,
in the fabric of his pants leg,

form two eyes and a nose and another mask,
form two eyes and a nose and another mask,

therefore in the painting
therefore in the painting

and this idea of things being hidden
and this idea of things being hidden

and you have to search for the meaning
and you have to search for the meaning

and suddenly discover things that you hadn't.
and suddenly discover things that you hadn't.

Beth: And things not making sense.
Beth: And things not making sense.

David: And things not making sense.
David: And things not making sense.

All of these are important
All of these are important

characteristics of mannerism.
characteristics of mannerism.

Beth: And we can talk about the book in that case, right?
Beth: And we can talk about the book in that case, right?

Because normally what would be in a portrait
Because normally what would be in a portrait

would help to tell us something about the sitter.
would help to tell us something about the sitter.

David: Right.
David: Right.

Beth: And in this case we kind of don't have anything
Beth: And in this case we kind of don't have anything

except those masks.
except those masks.

David: Here we see a book, but it's closed.
David: Here we see a book, but it's closed.

It's not open for us to read and understand.
It's not open for us to read and understand.

Just like how we are presented with a man,
Just like how we are presented with a man,

but he too, because of the way he looks at us
but he too, because of the way he looks at us

and is painted as closed off to us.
and is painted as closed off to us.

Beth: And remains an enigma.
Beth: And remains an enigma.

David: Like the window or door in the back
David: Like the window or door in the back

that's also hidden from view in a way
that's also hidden from view in a way

like the book is closed.
like the book is closed.

Let's look at our other image as well.
Let's look at our other image as well.

Beth: Okay.
Beth: Okay.

David: This is Bronzino's portrait of Lodovico Capponi.
David: This is Bronzino's portrait of Lodovico Capponi.

Approximately the same date and also here in New York City.
Approximately the same date and also here in New York City.

This is at the Frick Collection.
This is at the Frick Collection.

Beth: His fingers, those elongated boneless fingers
Beth: His fingers, those elongated boneless fingers

are also very typical of mannerism.
are also very typical of mannerism.

David: It's very similar to the last painting
David: It's very similar to the last painting

we looked at and to mannerism in general
we looked at and to mannerism in general

with it's refined elegance and the rather
with it's refined elegance and the rather

elongated forms, the face, the cool polish,
elongated forms, the face, the cool polish,

and the sort of firm skin that we expect to see.
and the sort of firm skin that we expect to see.

Here, he's not quite as aloof looking
Here, he's not quite as aloof looking

as the last image, but still there's that sense
as the last image, but still there's that sense

that he's posing for us.
that he's posing for us.

He's presenting himself to be seen
He's presenting himself to be seen

in a particular way and we're never going to know
in a particular way and we're never going to know

who the real person underneath is.
who the real person underneath is.

So, again, a kind of virtuosic painting,
So, again, a kind of virtuosic painting,

but also very good demonstration of how
but also very good demonstration of how

you were supposed to behave in upper class society.
you were supposed to behave in upper class society.

Just like in the last painting we had
Just like in the last painting we had

a book that was closed, so we were presented
a book that was closed, so we were presented

with something that we expect to understand,
with something that we expect to understand,

but are prevented from seeing into it.
but are prevented from seeing into it.

Here too, we have the same thing.
Here too, we have the same thing.

Beth: He's holding.
Beth: He's holding.

... a cameo and usually when a man is painted
... a cameo and usually when a man is painted

in a portrait with a cameo, we see who it is
in a portrait with a cameo, we see who it is

because it's his lover ...
because it's his lover ...

Beth: Yeah, right.
Beth: Yeah, right.

David: ... or some family member.
David: ... or some family member.

Beth: Right.
Beth: Right.

David: And here he holds it.
David: And here he holds it.

We expect to see it and understand it,
We expect to see it and understand it,

but he also covers her face with his finger.
but he also covers her face with his finger.

Beth: Yeah. It's so fascinating how mannerism
Beth: Yeah. It's so fascinating how mannerism

evolves a style that's so different from the goals,
evolves a style that's so different from the goals,

the naturalistic goals of the Renaissance.
the naturalistic goals of the Renaissance.

David: Yeah and when you think about
David: Yeah and when you think about

mannerist portraits like these, in your head
mannerist portraits like these, in your head

you can compare it to something like the Mona Lisa,
you can compare it to something like the Mona Lisa,

where she's not obviously posing
where she's not obviously posing

and Leonardo's effort in a painting like that
and Leonardo's effort in a painting like that

is seemingly more honest and open and she's engaging
is seemingly more honest and open and she's engaging

with you in a kind of expressive way.
with you in a kind of expressive way.

Beth: Right.
Beth: Right.

David: Whereas in these mannerist portraits,
David: Whereas in these mannerist portraits,

these two, as well as many others,
these two, as well as many others,

you are presented with someone, but at the very same time
you are presented with someone, but at the very same time

you are precluded from understanding who they are.
you are precluded from understanding who they are.

Beth: Yep. Do you think that this has anything
Beth: Yep. Do you think that this has anything

to do with the reformation that's beginning
to do with the reformation that's beginning

to happen, or not yet?
to happen, or not yet?

David: I would say it's too early for that.
David: I would say it's too early for that.

David: I think it has to do more with court life
David: I think it has to do more with court life

especially because these are
especially because these are

such secular images.
such secular images.

Beth: That's true.
Beth: That's true.

(piano playing)
(piano playing)