This episode and others like it are made possible  by the generous support of my patrons on patreon.  
This episode and others like it are made possible  by the generous support of my patrons on patreon.  

In some other news, if you haven’t heard already,  I recently started a podcast with Hakim and  
In some other news, if you haven’t heard already,  I recently started a podcast with Hakim and  

Yugopnik. It’s called The Deprogram, and it’s a  show dedicated to helping listeners shake off the  
Yugopnik. It’s called The Deprogram, and it’s a  show dedicated to helping listeners shake off the  

capitalist programming we’ve all been subjected  to over the years. We tackle all sorts of topics,  
capitalist programming we’ve all been subjected  to over the years. We tackle all sorts of topics,  

from theory, to current events, to culture  and just generally have a good time. If that  
from theory, to current events, to culture  and just generally have a good time. If that  

sounds like something you’d enjoy, be sure  to check it out by following the link below.
sounds like something you’d enjoy, be sure  to check it out by following the link below.

Hey millennials! How’s it  going? Sorry, what’s that?  
Hey millennials! How’s it  going? Sorry, what’s that?  

Every moment of the last 30 or so years of  your life has been pure agony? That’s okay!
Every moment of the last 30 or so years of  your life has been pure agony? That’s okay!

Look, this episode is for you!
Look, this episode is for you!

Gen-Z may only be on its way to having the  most student loan debt, the fewest shorelines,  
Gen-Z may only be on its way to having the  most student loan debt, the fewest shorelines,  

and the most ring-lights per capita. But for  now, you’re the star of the show! You’re the  
and the most ring-lights per capita. But for  now, you’re the star of the show! You’re the  

generation with the biggest cut of the $1.7  trillion dollars of student loan debt! Go you!
generation with the biggest cut of the $1.7  trillion dollars of student loan debt! Go you!

No wait, actually it’s Gen X.  Nevermind, you’re not special.
No wait, actually it’s Gen X.  Nevermind, you’re not special.

In this episode we’re going to talk about that.  
In this episode we’re going to talk about that.  

Not the not being special thing, student  loan debt. But also, debt in general.
Not the not being special thing, student  loan debt. But also, debt in general.

Debt occupies a pretty central role in the history  of humanity. Today, you mostly hear about national  
Debt occupies a pretty central role in the history  of humanity. Today, you mostly hear about national  

debt and how it's always getting bigger, or  student loan debt and how it's always getting  
debt and how it's always getting bigger, or  student loan debt and how it's always getting  

bigger, or mortgage debt and how it's always  getting bigger until it doesn’t so we all have a  
bigger, or mortgage debt and how it's always  getting bigger until it doesn’t so we all have a  

bad time for a couple years and then we all forget  and it starts always getting bigger again. Every  
bad time for a couple years and then we all forget  and it starts always getting bigger again. Every  

time we hear about debt, whether it be our own or  someone else’s it's usually not because things are  
time we hear about debt, whether it be our own or  someone else’s it's usually not because things are  

going well. We generally don’t like debt, but it  seems like we can’t get enough of it. Why is that?
going well. We generally don’t like debt, but it  seems like we can’t get enough of it. Why is that?

When it comes to student loan debt,  you’ll usually get a pretty simple answer.  
When it comes to student loan debt,  you’ll usually get a pretty simple answer.  

College just keeps getting more expensive.  Every year, costs go up and outpace inflation,  
College just keeps getting more expensive.  Every year, costs go up and outpace inflation,  

most dramatically at private schools. Higher  costs and a student body that has been growing  
most dramatically at private schools. Higher  costs and a student body that has been growing  

for decades means that more people have  to borrow more to afford higher education,  
for decades means that more people have  to borrow more to afford higher education,  

so debt grows. It’s not a particularly complicated  or unique observation to point this out.
so debt grows. It’s not a particularly complicated  or unique observation to point this out.

And while all of that is true, looking at student  loan debt within the narrow scope of costs and  
And while all of that is true, looking at student  loan debt within the narrow scope of costs and  

supply and demand detracts from the fact that  student loan debt, at the end of the day,  
supply and demand detracts from the fact that  student loan debt, at the end of the day,  

is just that: debt. And debt  has a much longer history than  
is just that: debt. And debt  has a much longer history than  

colleges deciding to charge tuition  at some point in the last 80 years.
colleges deciding to charge tuition  at some point in the last 80 years.

So let’s actually look at debt. Looking at debt  more generally, and the kind of role it has in  
So let’s actually look at debt. Looking at debt  more generally, and the kind of role it has in  

our neoliberal economy, helps us understand why  student loan debt is probably not going to go away  
our neoliberal economy, helps us understand why  student loan debt is probably not going to go away  

any time soon. And although we can argue about  the precedents and legal authority of student  
any time soon. And although we can argue about  the precedents and legal authority of student  

loan forgiveness, and we absolutely should,  anything to get loan forgiveness done is good,  
loan forgiveness, and we absolutely should,  anything to get loan forgiveness done is good,  

we should also explore the fact that our  inability to end student loan debt thus far  
we should also explore the fact that our  inability to end student loan debt thus far  

doesn’t just come from how difficult it  is to convince Biden to do the right thing  
doesn’t just come from how difficult it  is to convince Biden to do the right thing  

but from the entire economic and political  structure that maintains debt in place.
but from the entire economic and political  structure that maintains debt in place.

And the key factor keeping debt so present in  our everyday lives is its intimate connection  
And the key factor keeping debt so present in  our everyday lives is its intimate connection  

to violence and to control. That is the thesis  of two academics, anthropologist David Graeber  
to violence and to control. That is the thesis  of two academics, anthropologist David Graeber  

and sociologist/philosopher Maurizio  Lazzarato in their two books Debt:  
and sociologist/philosopher Maurizio  Lazzarato in their two books Debt:  

The First 5000 Years and Governing  by Debt. Let’s start with Graeber.
The First 5000 Years and Governing  by Debt. Let’s start with Graeber.

There are a lot of insights in Graeber’s book  but the one that’s most relevant to this video  
There are a lot of insights in Graeber’s book  but the one that’s most relevant to this video  

is the idea of the “military-coinage-slavery  complex.” Beyond being an absolute banger in  
is the idea of the “military-coinage-slavery  complex.” Beyond being an absolute banger in  

a sophomore socratic seminar, the MCSC as I’ll  call it this one time only, refers to the way  
a sophomore socratic seminar, the MCSC as I’ll  call it this one time only, refers to the way  

that money and debt more generally became  associated with violence, war, and force.
that money and debt more generally became  associated with violence, war, and force.

The story goes, according to Graeber, that  the beginning of economic relationships  
The story goes, according to Graeber, that  the beginning of economic relationships  

wasn’t bartering (I give you my yams, you give  me your cow), instead the beginning of economics  
wasn’t bartering (I give you my yams, you give  me your cow), instead the beginning of economics  

was debt. I give you my yams and because I know  you well enough and you’re not going anywhere,  
was debt. I give you my yams and because I know  you well enough and you’re not going anywhere,  

we have an informal IOU system going so that  when you get something that’s roughly worth  
we have an informal IOU system going so that  when you get something that’s roughly worth  

those sweet sweet yams I gave you you’ll just give  it to me. Eventually we’ll just settle our debts.  
those sweet sweet yams I gave you you’ll just give  it to me. Eventually we’ll just settle our debts.  

These kinds of relationships demand a lot of  trust to really work but they were able to  
These kinds of relationships demand a lot of  trust to really work but they were able to  

sustain really quite impressive economies and  Graeber, alongside other anthropologists, is  
sustain really quite impressive economies and  Graeber, alongside other anthropologists, is  

pretty confident that this is how human societies  actually exchanged for centuries, not through  
pretty confident that this is how human societies  actually exchanged for centuries, not through  

discrete resource for resource transactions in  barter, and not through coinage. So why do coins  
discrete resource for resource transactions in  barter, and not through coinage. So why do coins  

ever appear and why does money, the way we know it  now as paper with an ugly guy on it or numbers on  
ever appear and why does money, the way we know it  now as paper with an ugly guy on it or numbers on  

a computer screen, ever make any sense to have?  Graeber’s answer is that there are some kinds  
a computer screen, ever make any sense to have?  Graeber’s answer is that there are some kinds  

of debt that just aren’t as good with trust and  IOUs alone, and one of the big ones is war debts.
of debt that just aren’t as good with trust and  IOUs alone, and one of the big ones is war debts.

When it’s time to do a war, you need to pay  soldiers, and soldiers that walk far away  
When it’s time to do a war, you need to pay  soldiers, and soldiers that walk far away  

from home and have every single spear you’ve ever  seen in your life don’t love IOUs. It’s easier to  
from home and have every single spear you’ve ever  seen in your life don’t love IOUs. It’s easier to  

give them little circles of metal and then find a  way to make those circles of metal mean something  
give them little circles of metal and then find a  way to make those circles of metal mean something  

by making them a guarantee of value. In a way,  those coins are a token of the debt you owe them.  
by making them a guarantee of value. In a way,  those coins are a token of the debt you owe them.  

But that’s not all, you also have to  worry about the other guy’s soldiers.  
But that’s not all, you also have to  worry about the other guy’s soldiers.  

What if to get his soldiers even shinier,  RGB-lit spears that kill twice as well,  
What if to get his soldiers even shinier,  RGB-lit spears that kill twice as well,  

he took on a lot of debt? Now your spears are  going to look really dumb, and when he takes over  
he took on a lot of debt? Now your spears are  going to look really dumb, and when he takes over  

your countryside, submits your people into eternal  servitude through taxation, peonage, or slavery,  
your countryside, submits your people into eternal  servitude through taxation, peonage, or slavery,  

he’s going to be able to pay back his debts  and you’re going to be world’s biggest loser.
he’s going to be able to pay back his debts  and you’re going to be world’s biggest loser.

So you better start minting coins and you better  start accruing your own massive, massive debt,  
So you better start minting coins and you better  start accruing your own massive, massive debt,  

and then indebting all the people you don’t like  and conquered using that debt, forcing a good  
and then indebting all the people you don’t like  and conquered using that debt, forcing a good  

chunk of them to mine the resources you need to  make the coins you’re using to keep track of all  
chunk of them to mine the resources you need to  make the coins you’re using to keep track of all  

of it in the first place and taxing or enslaving  the rest to produce the wealth your kingdom needs  
of it in the first place and taxing or enslaving  the rest to produce the wealth your kingdom needs  

to sustain itself. And the best part is that  those people will absolutely take that deal.  
to sustain itself. And the best part is that  those people will absolutely take that deal.  

It’s their money or their lives, you’re  being a nice guy by giving them a choice.
It’s their money or their lives, you’re  being a nice guy by giving them a choice.

For Graeber, then, the origin of money wasn’t  to satisfy the awkwardness and inefficiencies  
For Graeber, then, the origin of money wasn’t  to satisfy the awkwardness and inefficiencies  

of a barter economy that probably  never really existed; money, markets,  
of a barter economy that probably  never really existed; money, markets,  

and the state all emerged in tandem, when debt  needed to grow and became a matter of force.
and the state all emerged in tandem, when debt  needed to grow and became a matter of force.

Whether any of this happened or not is up  for debate. Graeber has a trove of historical  
Whether any of this happened or not is up  for debate. Graeber has a trove of historical  

records he’s pulling from, case studies from  different parts of the world that replay this  
records he’s pulling from, case studies from  different parts of the world that replay this  

trajectory almost to a T every single time, and  the support of a lot of his fellow academics,  
trajectory almost to a T every single time, and  the support of a lot of his fellow academics,  

but it’s ultimately still a theory connecting  dots that don’t have a well-documented straight  
but it’s ultimately still a theory connecting  dots that don’t have a well-documented straight  

line between them. But that’s fine. The point of  this book isn’t to give a definitive historical  
line between them. But that’s fine. The point of  this book isn’t to give a definitive historical  

account of debt, but to peel back the nature of  debt and give us a little peek into how it works.  
account of debt, but to peel back the nature of  debt and give us a little peek into how it works.  

The two big conclusions are that, one, debt is one  of the ways we take two formally equal people and  
The two big conclusions are that, one, debt is one  of the ways we take two formally equal people and  

create a legitimated domination. Because you owe  me in ways specifically quantified and backed up  
create a legitimated domination. Because you owe  me in ways specifically quantified and backed up  

by the state whose currency we are trading in, I  have violence on my side and hold power over you.  
by the state whose currency we are trading in, I  have violence on my side and hold power over you.  

Or, because I borrowed and you didn’t, I have  the means to exert violence and you don’t.  
Or, because I borrowed and you didn’t, I have  the means to exert violence and you don’t.  

The other ways in which we relate to one another  fade into the background when money becomes the  
The other ways in which we relate to one another  fade into the background when money becomes the  

way we think of, and actually use, debt. Two,  for debt to grow violence needs to grow too. War  
way we think of, and actually use, debt. Two,  for debt to grow violence needs to grow too. War  

is just a good way for this to become the norm  because you can always find people to justify  
is just a good way for this to become the norm  because you can always find people to justify  

spending and borrowing more for war, using war to  get more resources, putting those back into more  
spending and borrowing more for war, using war to  get more resources, putting those back into more  

war and so on. It’s not as simple as the creditor  is the bad guy and the debtor is the good guy,  
war and so on. It’s not as simple as the creditor  is the bad guy and the debtor is the good guy,  

it’s that in order for debt to grow in  orders of magnitudes, you need violence.  
it’s that in order for debt to grow in  orders of magnitudes, you need violence.  

And whoever is on the side capable of doing the  violence will use that debt for their benefit.
And whoever is on the side capable of doing the  violence will use that debt for their benefit.

This is a really complicated argument and  an even harder one to summarize in a single  
This is a really complicated argument and  an even harder one to summarize in a single  

chapter of a 15 minute youtube video written  in a week, so if you’re wondering what all  
chapter of a 15 minute youtube video written  in a week, so if you’re wondering what all  

this is about, there’s links to Graeber's book,  summaries, and critiques in the description.
this is about, there’s links to Graeber's book,  summaries, and critiques in the description.

For now let’s move on, because we started out  with student loans and just spent like five  
For now let’s move on, because we started out  with student loans and just spent like five  

minutes on medieval wars and slavery. The reason  to go so in depth on debt with David, though,  
minutes on medieval wars and slavery. The reason  to go so in depth on debt with David, though,  

is because the connection between violence and  debt, or in other words violence and the economy,  
is because the connection between violence and  debt, or in other words violence and the economy,  

has persisted. On the international scale,  it’s hard to distinguish the mythical debtor  
has persisted. On the international scale,  it’s hard to distinguish the mythical debtor  

and creditor states of old timey medieval Europe  and Asia with the US’s current national debt,  
and creditor states of old timey medieval Europe  and Asia with the US’s current national debt,  

a massive chunk of which is inherited from  our involvement in past wars and the yearly  
a massive chunk of which is inherited from  our involvement in past wars and the yearly  

ritual of feeding, with nearly a trillion  imaginary dollars we’ll definitely pay back,  
ritual of feeding, with nearly a trillion  imaginary dollars we’ll definitely pay back,  

the flames of the world’s largest military budget.
the flames of the world’s largest military budget.

Similarly, the creation of debt  traps across the developing world,  
Similarly, the creation of debt  traps across the developing world,  

mainly in Africa and Latin America, so that  our domestic markets and industries could  
mainly in Africa and Latin America, so that  our domestic markets and industries could  

produce incredible wealth for the few with  a stake, really resembles the colonial and  
produce incredible wealth for the few with  a stake, really resembles the colonial and  

expansionary methods that made money and debt the  currency of violence Graeber spends an exhausting  
expansionary methods that made money and debt the  currency of violence Graeber spends an exhausting  

500 pages on. Debt has de facto  become the logic of government.
500 pages on. Debt has de facto  become the logic of government.

Just using debt to fund wars isn’t enough, though.  Because sometimes, when an expanding state and a  
Just using debt to fund wars isn’t enough, though.  Because sometimes, when an expanding state and a  

rapidly industrializing economy love each other  very much, some people get the funny idea that  
rapidly industrializing economy love each other  very much, some people get the funny idea that  

money can become more than a way to exchange  things easily, they start to think that the  
money can become more than a way to exchange  things easily, they start to think that the  

whole point of money is to make more of it. If  only there were a name for that! Ah, who cares.
whole point of money is to make more of it. If  only there were a name for that! Ah, who cares.

The kinds of markets that popped up  during war times and gave meaning to  
The kinds of markets that popped up  during war times and gave meaning to  

all those metal circles get repurposed. The  relationship between creditors and debtors,  
all those metal circles get repurposed. The  relationship between creditors and debtors,  

this is where Lazzarato’s book comes in by  the way, starts to permeate all the different  
this is where Lazzarato’s book comes in by  the way, starts to permeate all the different  

spheres of society, not just trade and war. All  of social life comes under the purview of debt.  
spheres of society, not just trade and war. All  of social life comes under the purview of debt.  

Wanna buy a house? Take out a mortgage. Wanna buy  a car? Here’s a 36-month, $0 dollars down loan.  
Wanna buy a house? Take out a mortgage. Wanna buy  a car? Here’s a 36-month, $0 dollars down loan.  

Don’t want to buy or take out a loan? Just  start renting, silly! Here’s a credit card,  
Don’t want to buy or take out a loan? Just  start renting, silly! Here’s a credit card,  

it’s nothing like a loan at all, just  don’t forget to pay it back every 30  
it’s nothing like a loan at all, just  don’t forget to pay it back every 30  

days and depending on how well you’re able  to do that maybe we can give renting a shot.
days and depending on how well you’re able  to do that maybe we can give renting a shot.

Want to go to school? Don’t  worry, it’s so easy, just sign  
Want to go to school? Don’t  worry, it’s so easy, just sign  

right here. Every major milestone in  life is put behind the same wall: debt.
right here. Every major milestone in  life is put behind the same wall: debt.

Now, can you live without taking out any sort of  loan? Of course. But if you aren’t from a wealthy  
Now, can you live without taking out any sort of  loan? Of course. But if you aren’t from a wealthy  

family, living without any kind of debt usually  means little more than subsisting, saving for  
family, living without any kind of debt usually  means little more than subsisting, saving for  

years and years for anything that can materially  improve your life. You can choose not to take  
years and years for anything that can materially  improve your life. You can choose not to take  

out student loans, a mortgage, not build a credit  score, roll the dice on never needing to take out  
out student loans, a mortgage, not build a credit  score, roll the dice on never needing to take out  

money for a medical procedure, but you probably  can’t do all of those and live a normal life.
money for a medical procedure, but you probably  can’t do all of those and live a normal life.

What debt offers, then, is predatory inclusion.  You can come play with the rest of us and have a  
What debt offers, then, is predatory inclusion.  You can come play with the rest of us and have a  

good time, but only at the cost of a constant  need to make sure you pay the loan back.  
good time, but only at the cost of a constant  need to make sure you pay the loan back.  

Because you can’t not pay the loan back.  Even if in real terms you’ve given way  
Because you can’t not pay the loan back.  Even if in real terms you’ve given way  

more money back than you’ve ever taken  out, so long as the bank says you have  
more money back than you’ve ever taken  out, so long as the bank says you have  

to pay you’ll have to pay. You signed  the contract after all. No one made you.
to pay you’ll have to pay. You signed  the contract after all. No one made you.

Since there’s really just  one way to pay the loan back,  
Since there’s really just  one way to pay the loan back,  

work and make money, that is precisely what you’ll  do. And since the things that make you the most  
work and make money, that is precisely what you’ll  do. And since the things that make you the most  

money are usually the things that make someone  else the most money, that’s where you’ll go.
money are usually the things that make someone  else the most money, that’s where you’ll go.

So long as that loan isn’t paid back,  
So long as that loan isn’t paid back,  

you get nothing. You get poverty, you get anguish,  you get the constant threat looming over you  
you get nothing. You get poverty, you get anguish,  you get the constant threat looming over you  

that you could be destitute tomorrow morning. You  can get police officers that show up at your door.
that you could be destitute tomorrow morning. You  can get police officers that show up at your door.

There is a tremendous amount of violence that  goes into maintaining and paying back debt.  
There is a tremendous amount of violence that  goes into maintaining and paying back debt.  

The more unpayable these loans become, in  the case of student loans either because  
The more unpayable these loans become, in  the case of student loans either because  

the price of college keeps growing or the jobs  that graduates can find aren’t paid as well,  
the price of college keeps growing or the jobs  that graduates can find aren’t paid as well,  

the more that violence grows and affects  more people. With $1.7 trillion dollars  
the more that violence grows and affects  more people. With $1.7 trillion dollars  

waiting to be collected, there’s  plenty of violence to go around.
waiting to be collected, there’s  plenty of violence to go around.

The magic of debt, in such an economy, is that  it gives a lot of legitimacy to that violence.  
The magic of debt, in such an economy, is that  it gives a lot of legitimacy to that violence.  

Not paying back your debts is tangled up  with so much moral judgment that it seems  
Not paying back your debts is tangled up  with so much moral judgment that it seems  

impossible to think of an alternative to paying it  all back or losing everything you have trying to.  
impossible to think of an alternative to paying it  all back or losing everything you have trying to.  

You have to pay it back, after all, it’s the right  thing to do. Governments not only know this fact,  
You have to pay it back, after all, it’s the right  thing to do. Governments not only know this fact,  

but they also know that pinning all this  violence and coercion on the back of debt  
but they also know that pinning all this  violence and coercion on the back of debt  

and on your presumed moral failure for not  paying it back is a whole lot easier than  
and on your presumed moral failure for not  paying it back is a whole lot easier than  

wielding that violence directly. It’s not  the government making you work overtime,  
wielding that violence directly. It’s not  the government making you work overtime,  

you “decided” to take out those student loans.  Debt has de facto become the logic of governance.
you “decided” to take out those student loans.  Debt has de facto become the logic of governance.

You might be wondering what this lens of analysis  ultimately does. What’s the point of thinking  
You might be wondering what this lens of analysis  ultimately does. What’s the point of thinking  

about this issue in this abstract, structural  manner? The point of understanding the role of  
about this issue in this abstract, structural  manner? The point of understanding the role of  

debt as a form of predatory inclusion, an entrance  into a system of exploitation tangled up with and  
debt as a form of predatory inclusion, an entrance  into a system of exploitation tangled up with and  

backed up by an extensive network of structural  violence, allows us to give up on the wrong idea  
backed up by an extensive network of structural  violence, allows us to give up on the wrong idea  

that borrowers are just one financial literacy  class away from making “good” debt decisions.  
that borrowers are just one financial literacy  class away from making “good” debt decisions.  

Really understanding debt means understanding  that this isn’t a case of people failing in a  
Really understanding debt means understanding  that this isn’t a case of people failing in a  

fair system and so why should we ever do anything  to help them, this is people routinely denied a  
fair system and so why should we ever do anything  to help them, this is people routinely denied a  

normal life unless they purposefully follow  the path that makes them an excellent source  
normal life unless they purposefully follow  the path that makes them an excellent source  

of compulsory labor. The fact that they can “fail”  on that path just contributes more to its success.
of compulsory labor. The fact that they can “fail”  on that path just contributes more to its success.

So, “why is student loan debt so hard to  forgive?” Because debt is too good to give up.
So, “why is student loan debt so hard to  forgive?” Because debt is too good to give up.

As one final parting thought, it is interesting  to think about what might happen if the majority  
As one final parting thought, it is interesting  to think about what might happen if the majority  

of indebted Americans simply refused  to pay back their absurd debt. Would  
of indebted Americans simply refused  to pay back their absurd debt. Would  

we see the capitalist regime arrest  and imprison millions of Americans?  
we see the capitalist regime arrest  and imprison millions of Americans?  

That seems hard to believe. After all, these are  just made up numbers on a spreadsheet somewhere.  
That seems hard to believe. After all, these are  just made up numbers on a spreadsheet somewhere.  

There is literally nothing stopping the  president from canceling student debt,  
There is literally nothing stopping the  president from canceling student debt,  

or most forms of debt for that matter, with the  stroke of a pen. As someone who has managed to  
or most forms of debt for that matter, with the  stroke of a pen. As someone who has managed to  

pay off my own student loans, it is simply  unconscionable that anyone else should ever  
pay off my own student loans, it is simply  unconscionable that anyone else should ever  

have to suffer that same punishment. One way or  another, the American debt system needs to go.
have to suffer that same punishment. One way or  another, the American debt system needs to go.

If you want to learn more about that or any of  the topics discussed in this video, including  
If you want to learn more about that or any of  the topics discussed in this video, including  

some of the more technical ways we can end student  loan debt, those sources are in the description.
some of the more technical ways we can end student  loan debt, those sources are in the description.

I mentioned at the beginning of this video  that this kind of content is made possible  
I mentioned at the beginning of this video  that this kind of content is made possible  

by my patrons on patreon. Thanks to viewers like  you, I’ve not only been able to keep up my weekly  
by my patrons on patreon. Thanks to viewers like  you, I’ve not only been able to keep up my weekly  

videos, but also start a new podcast with two  other great YouTubers. Hakim, Yugopnik, and I  
videos, but also start a new podcast with two  other great YouTubers. Hakim, Yugopnik, and I  

started The Deprogram because there was a real  lack of a truly international socialist podcast,  
started The Deprogram because there was a real  lack of a truly international socialist podcast,  

and what better way to fix that than having  three socialists from three different parts  
and what better way to fix that than having  three socialists from three different parts  

of the world come together to discuss our  unique perspectives on important topics.  
of the world come together to discuss our  unique perspectives on important topics.  

That and it’s just fun to hang out and talk  commie stuff for an hour or so each week.  
That and it’s just fun to hang out and talk  commie stuff for an hour or so each week.  

As of today, we’ve released 11 episodes, so  you’ll have plenty of fun topics to choose from,  
As of today, we’ve released 11 episodes, so  you’ll have plenty of fun topics to choose from,  

like how to win people over to the left,  the failures of past socialist experiments,  
like how to win people over to the left,  the failures of past socialist experiments,  

and of course, reacting to the incredibly painful  Hillary Clinton Masterclass. If you’d like to help  
and of course, reacting to the incredibly painful  Hillary Clinton Masterclass. If you’d like to help  

support the podcast, join our Discord, and get  early access to every episode, consider becoming a  
support the podcast, join our Discord, and get  early access to every episode, consider becoming a  

patron at patreon.com/thedeprogram. Otherwise, you  can catch one episode per week absolutely free on  
patron at patreon.com/thedeprogram. Otherwise, you  can catch one episode per week absolutely free on  

all your favorite podcast platforms. So check out  The Deprogram by following any of the links below.
all your favorite podcast platforms. So check out  The Deprogram by following any of the links below.