- Oh hey there, welcome to What the Facts.
- Oh hey there, welcome to What the Facts.

Our companion show to What the F 101.
Our companion show to What the F 101.

My name's Jake Young
My name's Jake Young

and I'm super jazzed about the parasite episode.
and I'm super jazzed about the parasite episode.

It's just full of really gross facts
It's just full of really gross facts

about the wriggly ways that parasites
about the wriggly ways that parasites

can get into your body.
can get into your body.

And the violent horrifying ways
And the violent horrifying ways

that they come out of them.
that they come out of them.

And I wanted to learn more.
And I wanted to learn more.

And so in order to help us,
And so in order to help us,

we've enlisted the help
we've enlisted the help

of Kevin Lafferty,
of Kevin Lafferty,

who is a Senior Ecologist at the US Geological Survey.
who is a Senior Ecologist at the US Geological Survey.

Kevin, how are you doing?
Kevin, how are you doing?

- I'm doing great.
- I'm doing great.

- How do you think we handled
- How do you think we handled

the topic of parasites in the cartoon?
the topic of parasites in the cartoon?

Like was there any glaring omissions
Like was there any glaring omissions

that you noticed?
that you noticed?

- Well I want to say it's very rare
- Well I want to say it's very rare

for me to work with somebody
for me to work with somebody

that would actually spend the time
that would actually spend the time

to animate wasps emerging from a caterpillar.
to animate wasps emerging from a caterpillar.

- So right off the bat I have to ask
- So right off the bat I have to ask

what is like the juiciest, just grossest thing
what is like the juiciest, just grossest thing

you've personally witnessed in nature?
you've personally witnessed in nature?

What fish is out there just getting
What fish is out there just getting

it's shit wrecked the hardest?
it's shit wrecked the hardest?

- Well you know the animation
- Well you know the animation

of the Isopod taking over the tongue,
of the Isopod taking over the tongue,

we see that, you know you open
we see that, you know you open

this fish's mouth and there's these
this fish's mouth and there's these

two eyes inside that are looking
two eyes inside that are looking

right back at you,
right back at you,

it's super super weird and disorienting ya know?
it's super super weird and disorienting ya know?

So that's that's a nice one.
So that's that's a nice one.

- When the fish is cod, does have you ever
- When the fish is cod, does have you ever

seen like the louse just kind of
seen like the louse just kind of

like pull the ejector seat and just
like pull the ejector seat and just

scuttle away, or like once it's locked in there
scuttle away, or like once it's locked in there

it's there for life?
it's there for life?

Well, it can dislodge if it needs to
Well, it can dislodge if it needs to

but it holds on.
but it holds on.

I mean it worked hard to get to where it was.
I mean it worked hard to get to where it was.

You know it's got those sharp little hooks
You know it's got those sharp little hooks

on the end of its legs and it digs right in.
on the end of its legs and it digs right in.

- You know in the show,
- You know in the show,

we talked about Professor Foxtrot
we talked about Professor Foxtrot

laid out, how you know parasites are
laid out, how you know parasites are

part of the great web of nature
part of the great web of nature

and that they are these beautiful
and that they are these beautiful

efficient creatures that interact with us
efficient creatures that interact with us

in this great swarm that we call life.
in this great swarm that we call life.

But I'm still having trouble buying it.
But I'm still having trouble buying it.

What is it about parasites that kind of
What is it about parasites that kind of

eek out people more than just
eek out people more than just

say a tiger chasing an antelope
say a tiger chasing an antelope

or a virus kind of giving you the flu?
or a virus kind of giving you the flu?

What is it about parasites
What is it about parasites

that have captured our imaginations,
that have captured our imaginations,

specifically our nightmares?
specifically our nightmares?

- Yeah okay, so I think you are totally
- Yeah okay, so I think you are totally

right to be skeptical.
right to be skeptical.

Even though this is entertaining
Even though this is entertaining

we can't ignore the fact that millions
we can't ignore the fact that millions

of poor people have been impacted
of poor people have been impacted

by parasites like Malaria, Schistosomiasis,
by parasites like Malaria, Schistosomiasis,

Filariasis, even though that's not
Filariasis, even though that's not

part of our like day-to-day experience
part of our like day-to-day experience

or risk to us as privileged wealthy people
or risk to us as privileged wealthy people

in Western countries.
in Western countries.

We still I think have the remnants
We still I think have the remnants

of evolving with the threat of parasites
of evolving with the threat of parasites

maybe think about it,
maybe think about it,

if you just imagine a tick crawling up your leg
if you just imagine a tick crawling up your leg

it makes you want to scratch.
it makes you want to scratch.

Or like I've got to hold my nose
Or like I've got to hold my nose

to go into a porta-potty
to go into a porta-potty

because you know, the smell
because you know, the smell

of feces is an indication
of feces is an indication

that I'm at risk to be exposed to parasites.
that I'm at risk to be exposed to parasites.

And so we've learned or evolved
And so we've learned or evolved

disgust as a response that helps us
disgust as a response that helps us

keep from getting sick
keep from getting sick

and that's perfectly natural I think.
and that's perfectly natural I think.

That doesn't mean that they can't be part
That doesn't mean that they can't be part

of the big happy web of life.
of the big happy web of life.

In fact, when we're on the same side
In fact, when we're on the same side

as parasites, we benefit from them.
as parasites, we benefit from them.

- Wait I'm sorry, like are you talking about
- Wait I'm sorry, like are you talking about

how like in a bad comic book sometimes Superman
how like in a bad comic book sometimes Superman

has to team up with Lex Luther?
has to team up with Lex Luther?

Like where are we teaming up with parasites?
Like where are we teaming up with parasites?

- Insect pests eat 40% of the production
- Insect pests eat 40% of the production

of agriculture around the world,
of agriculture around the world,

and we can use pesticides to kill those bugs,
and we can use pesticides to kill those bugs,

or we can rely on the natural enemies
or we can rely on the natural enemies

like those parasitoid wasps
like those parasitoid wasps

that eat caterpillars from the inside out.
that eat caterpillars from the inside out.

- Speaking of stuff that kills bugs,
- Speaking of stuff that kills bugs,

I found this online.
I found this online.

This is a cordyceps tea that was you know,
This is a cordyceps tea that was you know,

if you're a fan of video games,
if you're a fan of video games,

you already know what cordyceps are.
you already know what cordyceps are.

They were the evil fungus that turned everyone into zombies
They were the evil fungus that turned everyone into zombies

in the Last of Us.
in the Last of Us.

Planet Earth had like a whole gross sequence.
Planet Earth had like a whole gross sequence.

Ugh it's the worst color.
Ugh it's the worst color.

Ugh that is not a good color.
Ugh that is not a good color.

Oh no, oh Kevin ugh, oh no.
Oh no, oh Kevin ugh, oh no.

That's that's another thing that really freaks me out is
That's that's another thing that really freaks me out is

you know I'm a conscious human being,
you know I'm a conscious human being,

I'm a sentient life form, endowed with various cool stuff
I'm a sentient life form, endowed with various cool stuff

like free-will and smart phones,
like free-will and smart phones,

like how like can a parasite really
like how like can a parasite really

wriggle into my brain and control my mind?
wriggle into my brain and control my mind?

- Oh for sure, I mean it might even
- Oh for sure, I mean it might even

be doing so as we speak.
be doing so as we speak.

That's what's awesome about it.
That's what's awesome about it.

I mean so okay, so let's talk about something
I mean so okay, so let's talk about something

that I think we can both agree on,
that I think we can both agree on,

which is that the rabies virus
which is that the rabies virus

messes with behavior right?
messes with behavior right?

We see it in rabid dogs they are like
We see it in rabid dogs they are like

completely transformed, and we know
completely transformed, and we know

the same thing can happen to people.
the same thing can happen to people.

We just don't freak out about it
We just don't freak out about it

because it's rare.
because it's rare.

At least it's rare now in human history.
At least it's rare now in human history.

It didn't used to be rare in the past
It didn't used to be rare in the past

there's other places in the world
there's other places in the world

where it still happens
where it still happens

actually pretty frequently.
actually pretty frequently.

I work with this much more common parasite toxoplasma gondii
I work with this much more common parasite toxoplasma gondii

and we know from really good, solid
and we know from really good, solid

experimental studies that this thing
experimental studies that this thing

will manipulate rodent behavior,
will manipulate rodent behavior,

make the rodents less afraid of cats
make the rodents less afraid of cats

but cats are key because the parasite
but cats are key because the parasite

uses the cat as a final host to complete its life cycle.
uses the cat as a final host to complete its life cycle.

And this parasite not only goes into rodents,
And this parasite not only goes into rodents,

it goes into people and in some countries,
it goes into people and in some countries,

most everybody in the country is infected, right?
most everybody in the country is infected, right?

And so the parasite doesn't know its not in a rodent brain,
And so the parasite doesn't know its not in a rodent brain,

it's in a human brain
it's in a human brain

it still tries its tricks that work on a rodent.
it still tries its tricks that work on a rodent.

And so we know that this parasite can cause
And so we know that this parasite can cause

subtle changes in human personality
subtle changes in human personality

and what makes that really interesting
and what makes that really interesting

is when you have a parasite that
is when you have a parasite that

can affect personality and if it can affect
can affect personality and if it can affect

most of the people in one country
most of the people in one country

and hardly any people in another country,
and hardly any people in another country,

then maybe that explains some of this
then maybe that explains some of this

cultural variation that we see around the world.
cultural variation that we see around the world.

- I'm not gonna lie, when they first
- I'm not gonna lie, when they first

you know, when there was those first
you know, when there was those first

those headlines about toxoplasmosis on the internet,
those headlines about toxoplasmosis on the internet,

I was really hoping that was going to be
I was really hoping that was going to be

just one of those things that like a year
just one of those things that like a year

later they'd be like no they tried it again
later they'd be like no they tried it again

nevermind you're fine, everything's fine.
nevermind you're fine, everything's fine.

And I've owned way too many cats to not be freaked out.
And I've owned way too many cats to not be freaked out.

- Yeah, yeah I mean there's a decent chance
- Yeah, yeah I mean there's a decent chance

that you are infected.
that you are infected.

I've had myself tested before I wrote my papers
I've had myself tested before I wrote my papers

on it just so I could have a clear perspective on it.
on it just so I could have a clear perspective on it.

At the time, I wasn't infected so.
At the time, I wasn't infected so.

- Okay, okay, stop bragging alright.
- Okay, okay, stop bragging alright.

It's oh oh I'm a cool,
It's oh oh I'm a cool,

I'm a cool adjunct at a major college,
I'm a cool adjunct at a major college,

I do environmental work at the time in history
I do environmental work at the time in history

where it's most needed.
where it's most needed.

My brain isn't full of monsters, good for you.
My brain isn't full of monsters, good for you.

- I don't have to share co-authorship
- I don't have to share co-authorship

with the parasite in my brain that way.
with the parasite in my brain that way.

- How does like on an evolutionary perspective,
- How does like on an evolutionary perspective,

how does a creature like figure that out?
how does a creature like figure that out?

Because sometimes it's really specific.
Because sometimes it's really specific.

I think this is another you know nature
I think this is another you know nature

documentary call out,
documentary call out,

trematodes that would go into a snail and like
trematodes that would go into a snail and like

literally turn their heads into giant
literally turn their heads into giant

pulsating like signals for birds to see,
pulsating like signals for birds to see,

so that they can get it,
so that they can get it,

literally go from the mud of the earth into the sky.
literally go from the mud of the earth into the sky.

- Natural Selection operates by incredibly
- Natural Selection operates by incredibly

inefficient trial and error.
inefficient trial and error.

But, if you do that over millions of years,
But, if you do that over millions of years,

then you can get to some pretty cool places.
then you can get to some pretty cool places.

Like, I mean you take the eye or wings
Like, I mean you take the eye or wings

or a barnacle's giant penis,
or a barnacle's giant penis,

you don't get there in one millisecond
you don't get there in one millisecond

it takes lots of trial and error to get there.
it takes lots of trial and error to get there.

So parasites are the same in this
So parasites are the same in this

like the example of the Foxtrot's frog
like the example of the Foxtrot's frog

that's sprouting all these weird limbs.
that's sprouting all these weird limbs.

That parasite has lots of relatives
That parasite has lots of relatives

and its ancestors too that just
and its ancestors too that just

infected the muscles of frogs, okay?
infected the muscles of frogs, okay?

Nothing special happens in most of those cases.
Nothing special happens in most of those cases.

But, this particular parasite by accident
But, this particular parasite by accident

ended up in the limb buds of tadpoles.
ended up in the limb buds of tadpoles.

And being there, they can mess with
And being there, they can mess with

the production of new legs.
the production of new legs.

- It was multiple legs,
- It was multiple legs,

they make just legs where legs shouldn't be.
they make just legs where legs shouldn't be.

- Yes, exactly.
- Yes, exactly.

And so when that frog climbs out of the pond,
And so when that frog climbs out of the pond,

it's more likely to get eaten by a raccoon
it's more likely to get eaten by a raccoon

or a bird and that is the final host
or a bird and that is the final host

of that parasite and that final host
of that parasite and that final host

helps move that parasite to the next pond.
helps move that parasite to the next pond.

Otherwise, you know it wouldn't
Otherwise, you know it wouldn't

be able to complete its lifecycle
be able to complete its lifecycle

and it would get stuck.
and it would get stuck.

So those sorts of adaptations,
So those sorts of adaptations,

we see them all the time in parasites
we see them all the time in parasites

and we think that they're so unusual
and we think that they're so unusual

but I think the way to comprehend it
but I think the way to comprehend it

is that trial and error over millions of years
is that trial and error over millions of years

gets you to some pretty strange places.
gets you to some pretty strange places.

- I, you know, I need to settle my nerves, let me just.
- I, you know, I need to settle my nerves, let me just.

Oh that is sour dirt.
Oh that is sour dirt.

Oh God!
Oh God!

(inhales sharply)
(inhales sharply)

Oh okay okay.
Oh okay okay.

It's like vegetable oil stock that went bad.
It's like vegetable oil stock that went bad.

- Yeah well I mean eating the spores is safe.
- Yeah well I mean eating the spores is safe.

You just don't want them to grow into your body.
You just don't want them to grow into your body.

Through your skin.
Through your skin.

- Wait, no that's the bug spore
- Wait, no that's the bug spore

they won't know what to do in me.
they won't know what to do in me.

Yeah yeah that's fine.
Yeah yeah that's fine.

Kevin thank you so much for joining us
Kevin thank you so much for joining us

and how can we follow your work
and how can we follow your work

and support it in the future?
and support it in the future?

- Just you know think about parasites,
- Just you know think about parasites,

keep spreading the message.
keep spreading the message.

That's what we wanna get people to know
That's what we wanna get people to know

about these hidden creatures inside of us
about these hidden creatures inside of us

that actually are pretty cool.
that actually are pretty cool.

- Kevin, that sounds like something
- Kevin, that sounds like something

a parasite in your brain would say
a parasite in your brain would say

in order to spread to more hosts.
in order to spread to more hosts.

I suggest you get re-tested.
I suggest you get re-tested.

- I will get re-tested.
- I will get re-tested.

This is an excellent idea
This is an excellent idea

but that could be the parasite saying that too.
but that could be the parasite saying that too.

- Well thanks again Kevin.
- Well thanks again Kevin.

Well that was existentially terrible.
Well that was existentially terrible.

Hey, you've been watching What the Facts
Hey, you've been watching What the Facts

and don't forget to check out What the F 101
and don't forget to check out What the F 101

on dropout.tv
on dropout.tv

Next week we will be covering
Next week we will be covering

self-experimentation and all the gross ways
self-experimentation and all the gross ways

that it's been used to advance
that it's been used to advance

the medical community.
the medical community.

And hey, speaking of self-experimentation, cheers!
And hey, speaking of self-experimentation, cheers!

Ugh, its like a portobello nightmare in my brain!
Ugh, its like a portobello nightmare in my brain!

This was a terrible idea
This was a terrible idea

we're not doing this bit again.
we're not doing this bit again.

That was bad for my mouth.
That was bad for my mouth.

We're done right, we're done?
We're done right, we're done?

Just get the...
Just get the...

I need water!
I need water!