(piano music)
(piano music)

Nancy: Okay, we're here at the Kalamazoo Institute of Art,
Nancy: Okay, we're here at the Kalamazoo Institute of Art,

and we're looking at an English alabaster
and we're looking at an English alabaster

that is the Harrowing of Hell from 1440 to 1470.
that is the Harrowing of Hell from 1440 to 1470.

If you look at it, it's such a dramatic moment
If you look at it, it's such a dramatic moment

in the history of art
in the history of art

and the history of Christ's passion resurrection
and the history of Christ's passion resurrection

because it's the story of Christ's descent into Hell,
because it's the story of Christ's descent into Hell,

and how he tugs Adam and Eve out of Hell
and how he tugs Adam and Eve out of Hell

before he, himself, goes up to Heaven,
before he, himself, goes up to Heaven,

and it's in a moment of extraordinary kind of drama.
and it's in a moment of extraordinary kind of drama.

And here, just to give an idea of what you have,
And here, just to give an idea of what you have,

it's quite a highly colored block of alabaster
it's quite a highly colored block of alabaster

with an enormous Hellmouth on the right-hand side,
with an enormous Hellmouth on the right-hand side,

and this is very popular in England.
and this is very popular in England.

Particularly, it's the idea that Hell is a sort of gigantic monster
Particularly, it's the idea that Hell is a sort of gigantic monster

with an enormous open mouth with teeth
with an enormous open mouth with teeth

and it's got what looks like a sort of snout and beady eyes
and it's got what looks like a sort of snout and beady eyes

and it's stretched right open,
and it's stretched right open,

like some immense dinosaur,
like some immense dinosaur,

jaws yanked as far apart as possible,
jaws yanked as far apart as possible,

and out of this, this extraordinary mouth,
and out of this, this extraordinary mouth,

a pouring, these rather innocent-looking people
a pouring, these rather innocent-looking people

who are the, so to speak, the people who
who are the, so to speak, the people who

are being redeemed from the old testament,
are being redeemed from the old testament,

Nancy: That's right.
Nancy: That's right.

Paul: And Adam and Eve are right at the head
Paul: And Adam and Eve are right at the head

and to the left-hand side of the image,
and to the left-hand side of the image,

gripping Adam by his wrist, I suppose,
gripping Adam by his wrist, I suppose,

isn't it, really?
isn't it, really?

Is a gigantic figure of Jesus
Is a gigantic figure of Jesus

with a bright blue mantel on lined in red,
with a bright blue mantel on lined in red,

and a great staff,
and a great staff,

so he's like a sort of pilgrim on a journey,
so he's like a sort of pilgrim on a journey,

and he's journeyed all the way down into Hell.
and he's journeyed all the way down into Hell.

They probably didn't read Dante,
They probably didn't read Dante,

Nancy: Probably not.
Nancy: Probably not.

Paul: But he's like a sort of pilgrim with his scrip,
Paul: But he's like a sort of pilgrim with his scrip,

and he's gripping at him
and he's gripping at him

and Eve is just behind Adam,
and Eve is just behind Adam,

and they're stark naked,
and they're stark naked,

and Adam is bearded,
and Adam is bearded,

and they're all coming out of this enormous mouth
and they're all coming out of this enormous mouth

and being pulled forward.
and being pulled forward.

And there's a funny mixture of sort of drama
And there's a funny mixture of sort of drama

and stassis about it.
and stassis about it.

You know, that the figures aren't sort of jerking around
You know, that the figures aren't sort of jerking around

and being very dynamic.
and being very dynamic.

It's quite still in a way.
It's quite still in a way.

Nancy: I think it is one of these
Nancy: I think it is one of these

tremendously dramatic moments that's
tremendously dramatic moments that's

really fabulous because it is salvation.
really fabulous because it is salvation.

Paul: Yes.
Paul: Yes.

salvation in action,
salvation in action,

where we don't really see salvation in action
where we don't really see salvation in action

in quite the same way.
in quite the same way.

We don't really see Christ in other scenes
We don't really see Christ in other scenes

ripping the people out of the jaws of Hell.
ripping the people out of the jaws of Hell.

Paul: Yes, that's right.
Paul: Yes, that's right.

Nancy: So he's really in the act of saving them.
Nancy: So he's really in the act of saving them.

Paul: And the interesting thing about it is
Paul: And the interesting thing about it is

that when he does this,
that when he does this,

he's standing sort of built upright, really,
he's standing sort of built upright, really,

with a scroll coming out of his mouth.
with a scroll coming out of his mouth.

There must have been something written there
There must have been something written there

that he's speaking,
that he's speaking,

but he's not looking at Adam and Eve at all.
but he's not looking at Adam and Eve at all.

He's looking, actually, out at us
He's looking, actually, out at us

as we stand here,
as we stand here,

looking back at him.
looking back at him.

He's looking out at us.
He's looking out at us.

So the idea is that the action of pulling Adam and Eve out
So the idea is that the action of pulling Adam and Eve out

is addressed sort of to us.
is addressed sort of to us.

"This is what I do for you," is what he's saying.
"This is what I do for you," is what he's saying.

It's like a gift.
It's like a gift.

But you're right, you don't normally see that.
But you're right, you don't normally see that.

And then you start to notice all these other little details
And then you start to notice all these other little details

like at the top, sitting on the snout of the Hellmouth
like at the top, sitting on the snout of the Hellmouth

is a tiny little demon with cloven-hoof hands
is a tiny little demon with cloven-hoof hands

and he seems,
and he seems,

is that a horn he's blowing on?
is that a horn he's blowing on?

Nancy: I think it is a horn,
Nancy: I think it is a horn,

and I can't help but always make the apocalyptic connections,
and I can't help but always make the apocalyptic connections,

having been so steeped in apocalypse iconography.
having been so steeped in apocalypse iconography.

Paul: Is he issuing a warning
Paul: Is he issuing a warning

that Hell's mouth is being breached.
that Hell's mouth is being breached.

It's like a defense.
It's like a defense.

Nancy: It could be.
Nancy: It could be.

And he seems to be holding up,
And he seems to be holding up,

what is that, a key?
what is that, a key?

Nancy: I think that is a key, yeah.
Nancy: I think that is a key, yeah.

Often, you see devils with staves,
Often, you see devils with staves,

Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Yeah.

Nancy: But this looks to be more than that,
Nancy: But this looks to be more than that,

as though there is some kind of unlocking process
as though there is some kind of unlocking process

that has happened here.
that has happened here.

Paul: And that's very English
Paul: And that's very English

because many centuries before this,
because many centuries before this,

in some of the great 12th-century representations
in some of the great 12th-century representations

of finality of Hell,
of finality of Hell,

you see a large angel.
you see a large angel.

There's a wonderful psalter from Winchester.
There's a wonderful psalter from Winchester.

Nancy: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Nancy: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Hellmouth sort of being locked up.
Hellmouth sort of being locked up.

Nancy: That's right.
Nancy: That's right.

possessing this enormous key,
possessing this enormous key,

and it has this kind of finality to it
and it has this kind of finality to it

and here it's all wrenched open,
and here it's all wrenched open,

and everything is reversed.
and everything is reversed.

Everything comes out,
Everything comes out,

and you wonder who the other figures are
and you wonder who the other figures are

that are coming out
that are coming out

because they're not all stark naked.
because they're not all stark naked.

Adam and Eve are absolutely ...
Adam and Eve are absolutely ...

Nancy: No, we have a clothed figure here,
Nancy: No, we have a clothed figure here,

and almost textured.
and almost textured.

Almost as though that's a hair shirt.
Almost as though that's a hair shirt.

Paul: It looks a little bit like a slightly shaggy sort of vest,
Paul: It looks a little bit like a slightly shaggy sort of vest,

open at his breast.
open at his breast.

Nancy: Yes.
Nancy: Yes.

They've got these terrific kind of contemporary hairdos,
They've got these terrific kind of contemporary hairdos,

so he'd got a wonderful beard,
so he'd got a wonderful beard,

which is kind of forked into two,
which is kind of forked into two,

and Christ is quite fashionable looking,
and Christ is quite fashionable looking,

and he's got his beard carefully done.
and he's got his beard carefully done.

He's got his crown of thorns on.
He's got his crown of thorns on.

Nancy: I love this body position.
Nancy: I love this body position.

I mean, he's just turned right around.
I mean, he's just turned right around.

We have this wonderfully elongated figure,
We have this wonderfully elongated figure,

and quite emaciated, really.
and quite emaciated, really.

I mean, none of these people seem to have
I mean, none of these people seem to have

eaten much in their lives.
eaten much in their lives.

Paul: Yes.
Paul: Yes.

Nancy: And he's this wonderful, very elegant
Nancy: And he's this wonderful, very elegant

elongated figure, you know.
elongated figure, you know.

Twisting at the hips and reaching right back around.
Twisting at the hips and reaching right back around.

Paul: And if you look closely,
Paul: And if you look closely,

it's beautifully painted, actually.
it's beautifully painted, actually.

Nancy: It is.
Nancy: It is.

Paul: Because the flesh isn't painted.
Paul: Because the flesh isn't painted.

It's this sort of slightly gray color that alabaster goes,
It's this sort of slightly gray color that alabaster goes,

but the rest of it, there's this sort of green sword
but the rest of it, there's this sort of green sword

with those little red and white flowers
with those little red and white flowers

and gold at the top.
and gold at the top.

Quite a lot of gold, actually.
Quite a lot of gold, actually.

I wonder if that's original.
I wonder if that's original.

Nancy: And I think that strange quality of the alabaster
Nancy: And I think that strange quality of the alabaster

really comes out as it is just the skin.
really comes out as it is just the skin.

That strange, creepy, slightly translucent ...
That strange, creepy, slightly translucent ...

Paul: It's the translucency.
Paul: It's the translucency.

You can see through it.
You can see through it.

It's like ice. You think you can see just under the surface.
It's like ice. You think you can see just under the surface.

Nancy: Yeah.
Nancy: Yeah.

Paul: Which makes it rather uncanny and fleshy.
Paul: Which makes it rather uncanny and fleshy.

Nancy: Another thing I want to point out here is that
Nancy: Another thing I want to point out here is that

someone has gauged out the eyes of the Hellmouth,
someone has gauged out the eyes of the Hellmouth,

or it has scored the eyes of the Hellmouth,
or it has scored the eyes of the Hellmouth,

and I wonder, also, if this score across the demon's waist
and I wonder, also, if this score across the demon's waist

is also an intentional ...
is also an intentional ...

Paul: Oh, yes. Good, you've got very sharp eyes.
Paul: Oh, yes. Good, you've got very sharp eyes.

Nancy: Trying to mar the figure.
Nancy: Trying to mar the figure.

Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Yeah.

Paul: Disempower it.
Paul: Disempower it.

Nancy: That's right.
Nancy: That's right.

but it's all about disempowering Hell, isn't it?
but it's all about disempowering Hell, isn't it?

Nancy: Yes.
Nancy: Yes.

triumphing over death.
triumphing over death.

It's a sort of heroic moment, really,
It's a sort of heroic moment, really,

of triumph in this way,
of triumph in this way,

which is so essential to the Christian message,
which is so essential to the Christian message,

isn't it?
isn't it?

Nancy: Yes, absolutely.
Nancy: Yes, absolutely.

(piano music)
(piano music)