>> Voiceover: Live from Austen, Texas, it's theCUBE.
>> Voiceover: Live from Austen, Texas, it's theCUBE.

Covering DockerCon 2017, brought to you by Docker,
Covering DockerCon 2017, brought to you by Docker,

in support from its ecosystem partners.
in support from its ecosystem partners.

>> And we're back. Hi I'm Stu Miniman joined by Jim Kobielus
>> And we're back. Hi I'm Stu Miniman joined by Jim Kobielus

and this is theCUBE, worldwide leader in
and this is theCUBE, worldwide leader in

live enterprise tech coverage.
live enterprise tech coverage.

Happy to have on the program, Scott McCarty,
Happy to have on the program, Scott McCarty,

who is technical product marketing for containers
who is technical product marketing for containers

with Red Hat, thanks so much for joining us!
with Red Hat, thanks so much for joining us!

>> Thanks for having me.
>> Thanks for having me.

>> Alright so, obviously this is the big container show,
>> Alright so, obviously this is the big container show,

You know, Red Hat, I saw when you talk about the number
You know, Red Hat, I saw when you talk about the number

of contributors, you're one of the top contributors there,
of contributors, you're one of the top contributors there,

but first tell us a little bit about your role at Red Hat,
but first tell us a little bit about your role at Red Hat,

how long you've been there, some of your passions,
how long you've been there, some of your passions,

what do you work on?
what do you work on?

>> Yeah for sure.
>> Yeah for sure.

So I've been at Red Hat six years and I started actually
So I've been at Red Hat six years and I started actually

as a solutions architect, six-ish years ago,
as a solutions architect, six-ish years ago,

came from a startup before that,
came from a startup before that,

and so been in the operations space for a long time,
and so been in the operations space for a long time,

did a lot of programming,
did a lot of programming,

background in anthropology computer science. Yeah.
background in anthropology computer science. Yeah.

>> You're dating yourself, you call it programming
>> You're dating yourself, you call it programming

>> I know, I know! >> Because it's coding now!
>> I know, I know! >> Because it's coding now!

>> I know, I know! (laughs)
>> I know, I know! (laughs)

>> I'm like, yeah, I used to program but, uh,
>> I'm like, yeah, I used to program but, uh,

what's this, this coding stuff.
what's this, this coding stuff.

>> I am dating myself!
>> I am dating myself!

>> Did you say anthropology?
>> Did you say anthropology?

>> I did.
>> I did.

>> Well we've got to connect it with Red Hat
>> Well we've got to connect it with Red Hat

at some point in our interview now.
at some point in our interview now.

>> It matters in the culture of things.
>> It matters in the culture of things.

>> James: Okay, yeah.
>> James: Okay, yeah.

>> You know, culture is important.
>> You know, culture is important.

(laughing)
(laughing)

So did you know, a very wide swath of our portfolio
So did you know, a very wide swath of our portfolio

I understand from being a solutions architect
I understand from being a solutions architect

and then about two years ago moved into,
and then about two years ago moved into,

well when Docker first started off, you know,
well when Docker first started off, you know,

got into containers and got pretty heavy and that,
got into containers and got pretty heavy and that,

and was excited about it, and then moved into
and was excited about it, and then moved into

just doing strictly technical product marketing
just doing strictly technical product marketing

for only containers.
for only containers.

You know, for focusing on containers.
You know, for focusing on containers.

>> Okay, so talk to us about how containers
>> Okay, so talk to us about how containers

fits into the Red Hat portfolio.
fits into the Red Hat portfolio.

>> So containers is really something that touches
>> So containers is really something that touches

every part of our portfolio,
every part of our portfolio,

because whether at the lower levels of like the Linux layers
because whether at the lower levels of like the Linux layers

you know that's the actual nuts and bolts
you know that's the actual nuts and bolts

of, you know, what builds the containers
of, you know, what builds the containers

and what the containers really are.
and what the containers really are.

But then at the other end of the stack,
But then at the other end of the stack,

if you look at our storage and our middleware,
if you look at our storage and our middleware,

containerizing those applications and then figuring out
containerizing those applications and then figuring out

how to package them in a cloud-native way
how to package them in a cloud-native way

and making them work in a cloud-native way,
and making them work in a cloud-native way,

so that they can operate inside of something like OpenShift,
so that they can operate inside of something like OpenShift,

there's a lot of work to be done there.
there's a lot of work to be done there.

So there's a wide swath of tech across our entire
So there's a wide swath of tech across our entire

portfolio of work around containers going on.
portfolio of work around containers going on.

>> Yeah, in the keynote this morning I like
>> Yeah, in the keynote this morning I like

there's the maturation of the use cases
there's the maturation of the use cases

because it sounds a lot like, you know,
because it sounds a lot like, you know,

remember of the early days of Linux,
remember of the early days of Linux,

or the early days of virtualization,
or the early days of virtualization,

once again they've put together a load of use cases
once again they've put together a load of use cases

and are like, "Oh, we're running applications,"
and are like, "Oh, we're running applications,"

>> Scott: Yes.
>> Scott: Yes.

>> In a wide variety of applications in containers,
>> In a wide variety of applications in containers,

so what are your customers seeing, you know,
so what are your customers seeing, you know,

any kind of cool use cases or things that people are doing
any kind of cool use cases or things that people are doing

and anything new that they're doing
and anything new that they're doing

that they couldn't do before?
that they couldn't do before?

>> Well, so, I'll give you a little take on that,
>> Well, so, I'll give you a little take on that,

so even for the last two years that I've been going out
so even for the last two years that I've been going out

all over the world to talk to customers,
all over the world to talk to customers,

I've noticed that there's a little bit of a disconnect
I've noticed that there's a little bit of a disconnect

between the industry and kind of only focusing
between the industry and kind of only focusing

on the app dev side of things.
on the app dev side of things.

I think today, kind of hearing Soloman talk about
I think today, kind of hearing Soloman talk about

some of the more traditional use cases,
some of the more traditional use cases,

traditional or non-cloud native or,
traditional or non-cloud native or,

we don't like to say the word legacy but people say it.
we don't like to say the word legacy but people say it.

>> Stu: Kind of wrapping--
>> Stu: Kind of wrapping--

>> I would argue those have been a huge portion
>> I would argue those have been a huge portion

of what people are experimenting with and playing with,
of what people are experimenting with and playing with,

but we don't talk about them.
but we don't talk about them.

Also I think there's a little bit of a notion
Also I think there's a little bit of a notion

of this mode one, mode two kind of mentality,
of this mode one, mode two kind of mentality,

but that limits the way we think about it
but that limits the way we think about it

into only production workloads.
into only production workloads.

So I have some really funny use cases.
So I have some really funny use cases.

So I'll give you some examples, network scanning.
So I'll give you some examples, network scanning.

So, like, there are some vendors that provide
So, like, there are some vendors that provide

network scanning software and I was a couple of months back
network scanning software and I was a couple of months back

up in Canada talking to ATTO Co.,
up in Canada talking to ATTO Co.,

and they mentioned they they were actually putting
and they mentioned they they were actually putting

a commercial network scanning package in containers
a commercial network scanning package in containers

because when you think about,
because when you think about,

you see a production oracle database
you see a production oracle database

and, you know, you talk to the oracle DBA,
and, you know, you talk to the oracle DBA,

and you say, "Hey I'm going to install
and you say, "Hey I'm going to install

"this giant network scanning package on your server."
"this giant network scanning package on your server."

And they're like, "No. You're not doing that."
And they're like, "No. You're not doing that."

(laughing)
(laughing)

So a container makes it very easy
So a container makes it very easy

to just bring that application down,
to just bring that application down,

do this network scanning, troubleshoot something
do this network scanning, troubleshoot something

and then delete it, it's gone.
and then delete it, it's gone.

That's just a tools use case, right?
That's just a tools use case, right?

But it's something that people have been doing
But it's something that people have been doing

for a long time but nobody is really talking about it.
for a long time but nobody is really talking about it.

Another one is even affecting business
Another one is even affecting business

more transformationally.
more transformationally.

So if you think about the way startups hire people,
So if you think about the way startups hire people,

this happened to a friend of mine that's a CTO at a startup.
this happened to a friend of mine that's a CTO at a startup.

They're interviewing a developer,
They're interviewing a developer,

it's very common to send them home with a homework program,
it's very common to send them home with a homework program,

you know?
you know?

And so they send them home with the Ruby on Rails program,
And so they send them home with the Ruby on Rails program,

and he comes back with a GitHub Repo
and he comes back with a GitHub Repo

that has like a database schema file for Postgres
that has like a database schema file for Postgres

and a working Ruby on Rails application.
and a working Ruby on Rails application.

And there are two hiring managers.
And there are two hiring managers.

The one hiring manager says, "Okay I'm going to,"
The one hiring manager says, "Okay I'm going to,"

And I'm sorry, also he says,
And I'm sorry, also he says,

"By the way, I have a Docker Repo,
"By the way, I have a Docker Repo,

"you can go out and pull it down if you want,
"you can go out and pull it down if you want,

"just run my program and see if it works."
"just run my program and see if it works."

The one hiring manager
The one hiring manager

decides to try to rebuild it from scratch,
decides to try to rebuild it from scratch,

takes about two hours messing around trying
takes about two hours messing around trying

to get the database schema to work
to get the database schema to work

because he used the newer version of Postgres
because he used the newer version of Postgres

than she had on her laptop,
than she had on her laptop,

you can imagine the dependency, you know, chaos that is.
you can imagine the dependency, you know, chaos that is.

The other hiring manager literally just said,
The other hiring manager literally just said,

"Okay, just Docker run this thing."
"Okay, just Docker run this thing."

And then, kind of ran the container
And then, kind of ran the container

and looked at the code.
and looked at the code.

The one spent two hours, you know, getting it up on her own,
The one spent two hours, you know, getting it up on her own,

the other one spent five minutes.
the other one spent five minutes.

And so now if I can give you back
And so now if I can give you back

the most valuable people in your organization,
the most valuable people in your organization,

these very, very technical architects
these very, very technical architects

that are doing hiring decisions and trying to evaluate
that are doing hiring decisions and trying to evaluate

really critical core developers for your startup,
really critical core developers for your startup,

if I can give you back two hours,
if I can give you back two hours,

and if you have to interview 10 of those,
and if you have to interview 10 of those,

that's 20 hours of your time, that's transformational,
that's 20 hours of your time, that's transformational,

that's really digital transformation, essentially,
that's really digital transformation, essentially,

but for a startup, you know.
but for a startup, you know.

Like, we don't want to have to spend
Like, we don't want to have to spend

all this analog time doing that.
all this analog time doing that.

In addition to the traditional applications
In addition to the traditional applications

like databases and even, you know, typical web servers,
like databases and even, you know, typical web servers,

all of those things,
all of those things,

but not just mode two or cloud native,
but not just mode two or cloud native,

but also just traditional workloads.
but also just traditional workloads.

And we've been seeing that for a long time,
And we've been seeing that for a long time,

I mean, this is similar to the virtualization journey,
I mean, this is similar to the virtualization journey,

it's like you said, everyone said it was impossible
it's like you said, everyone said it was impossible

and even two years ago was saying,
and even two years ago was saying,

"Wait a minute, just wait for this, it'll happen,"
"Wait a minute, just wait for this, it'll happen,"

and we're seeing it happen.
and we're seeing it happen.

>> Yeah. Anything particular?
>> Yeah. Anything particular?

You know, we've made a lot of progress,
You know, we've made a lot of progress,

but we're still working on storage,
but we're still working on storage,

networking seems to be a little bit more mature than storage
networking seems to be a little bit more mature than storage

you know, what are you guys helping to work on at Red Hat
you know, what are you guys helping to work on at Red Hat

and what do you want to see going forward
and what do you want to see going forward

that we come here a year from now we're going to say,
that we come here a year from now we're going to say,

"Oh, cool, we knocked down this barrier,
"Oh, cool, we knocked down this barrier,

or we're doing something even better."
or we're doing something even better."

>> So one of the things I'm excited about
>> So one of the things I'm excited about

is kind of if you look at the integration points
is kind of if you look at the integration points

between cloud infrastructure software like OpenStack
between cloud infrastructure software like OpenStack

and even the cloud providers,
and even the cloud providers,

and then something like our OpenShift solution
and then something like our OpenShift solution

or Kubernetes,
or Kubernetes,

if you look at the storage and the network interactions,
if you look at the storage and the network interactions,

today the networking is pretty mature
today the networking is pretty mature

but the interaction is pretty static,
but the interaction is pretty static,

so if you provision OpenStack,
so if you provision OpenStack,

you know, say you have an OpenStack environment,
you know, say you have an OpenStack environment,

you want to run OpenShift on top of it,
you want to run OpenShift on top of it,

you would go pre-provision kind of a VLAN,
you would go pre-provision kind of a VLAN,

you know a subnet for it, and then you would-
you know a subnet for it, and then you would-

we rebuild, actually, key templates
we rebuild, actually, key templates

to deploy OpenShift inside of it, within that subnet.
to deploy OpenShift inside of it, within that subnet.

In the future we're investing in Courier
In the future we're investing in Courier

and you know, a year from now I'd like to see
and you know, a year from now I'd like to see

some really dynamic interactions happening
some really dynamic interactions happening

between OpenShift and OpenStack.
between OpenShift and OpenStack.

I'd like to see an administer say,
I'd like to see an administer say,

"Oh, I need to provision a new project
"Oh, I need to provision a new project

"and that project needs its own network isolation."
"and that project needs its own network isolation."

When that happens, OpenShift goes and talks to OpenStack,
When that happens, OpenShift goes and talks to OpenStack,

provisions a subnet that's encrypted with OVS,
provisions a subnet that's encrypted with OVS,

and actually it already is kind of set up,
and actually it already is kind of set up,

comes back, says, "Okay cool,"
comes back, says, "Okay cool,"

and then can provision a project inside that.
and then can provision a project inside that.

On the storage side we've actually already got that going,
On the storage side we've actually already got that going,

So we have what's called dynamic provisioning,
So we have what's called dynamic provisioning,

so if you need storage inside of OpenShift
so if you need storage inside of OpenShift

and you have a persistent volume claim
and you have a persistent volume claim

that needs access to storage,
that needs access to storage,

we actually have something called a dynamic provisionary
we actually have something called a dynamic provisionary

that will actually go create that person's environment
that will actually go create that person's environment

and go to talk the the storage
and go to talk the the storage

and carve off a LUN of exactly the size you want
and carve off a LUN of exactly the size you want

or a NFS share of the exact size that you want.
or a NFS share of the exact size that you want.

So, so, I'd like to see more and more
So, so, I'd like to see more and more

of that dynamic provisioning happening
of that dynamic provisioning happening

between the infrastructure in a container environment.
between the infrastructure in a container environment.

>> Is that as capable, uh, should we build into Kubernetes
>> Is that as capable, uh, should we build into Kubernetes

or totally independent of that? You know what I mean--
or totally independent of that? You know what I mean--

>> So the current project is kind of neutral
>> So the current project is kind of neutral

but it would be, kind of, think of it
but it would be, kind of, think of it

as almost like an interface
as almost like an interface

that Kubernetes will be able to use as an interface
that Kubernetes will be able to use as an interface

to all the networking providers.
to all the networking providers.

>> James: Right.
>> James: Right.

>> So it's kind of a neutral, third-party thing.
>> So it's kind of a neutral, third-party thing.

Really it could be used by other things
Really it could be used by other things

other than Kubernetes.
other than Kubernetes.

>> I want to get your take on project Moby,
>> I want to get your take on project Moby,

that was a real interesting announcement today,
that was a real interesting announcement today,

to what extent, would Red Hat consider possibly using that
to what extent, would Red Hat consider possibly using that

as a tool to build custom container applications
as a tool to build custom container applications

for your own product family?
for your own product family?

>> Probably the most interesting thing
>> Probably the most interesting thing

I found about the announcement was kind of a validation
I found about the announcement was kind of a validation

of, uh, you know already a kind of strategy that we had
of, uh, you know already a kind of strategy that we had

around Project Atomic.
around Project Atomic.

And if you look at Origin and Project Atomic and Fedora,
And if you look at Origin and Project Atomic and Fedora,

you know, they mention Fedora, that model.
you know, they mention Fedora, that model.

>> James: Yeah, absolutely.
>> James: Yeah, absolutely.

>> I think it's a good model,
>> I think it's a good model,

and you'll appreciate that we appreciate it.
and you'll appreciate that we appreciate it.

I think that, you know, there's some validation also
I think that, you know, there's some validation also

around the idea of an immutable host,
around the idea of an immutable host,

and having control over the host
and having control over the host

and honestly I think it kind of validates
and honestly I think it kind of validates

that the Linux itself is not a commodity,
that the Linux itself is not a commodity,

there is something actually very technical there
there is something actually very technical there

and you do need to actually build a dry features
and you do need to actually build a dry features

in that kernel to actually support the containers,
in that kernel to actually support the containers,

because I think they made the kernel hot again,
because I think they made the kernel hot again,

you know, in a lot of ways.
you know, in a lot of ways.

So I think it's validation of that
So I think it's validation of that

and I think that's exciting.
and I think that's exciting.

>> At the beginning we talked about culture a little bit,
>> At the beginning we talked about culture a little bit,

you know, we've interview Jim Whitehurst,
you know, we've interview Jim Whitehurst,

so you know, I've read his book,
so you know, I've read his book,

>> Scott: Yeah.
>> Scott: Yeah.

>> You know, the open organization,
>> You know, the open organization,

>> James: The anthropology. (laughs)
>> James: The anthropology. (laughs)

>> You know, when you come to a show like this
>> You know, when you come to a show like this

where, I mean, today we talked about the developer,
where, I mean, today we talked about the developer,

we talked lots about open-source
we talked lots about open-source

and, right, you know there's Linux Kit,
and, right, you know there's Linux Kit,

there's the Moby Project, you know,
there's the Moby Project, you know,

all these different things out in open-source,
all these different things out in open-source,

what's your take on this ecosystem
what's your take on this ecosystem

and what's going on in the industry?
and what's going on in the industry?

>> I think ecosystems are harder to build
>> I think ecosystems are harder to build

than what people first think.
than what people first think.

I don't think you can just, so if you look at certain,
I don't think you can just, so if you look at certain,

you know if I were to analyze the way open source works,
you know if I were to analyze the way open source works,

you know there sot of open-core models which are like,
you know there sot of open-core models which are like,

"Let's give enough away to get free marketing."
"Let's give enough away to get free marketing."

Then there's kind of open-source models
Then there's kind of open-source models

where we give away all the code
where we give away all the code

but we don't really have a community,
but we don't really have a community,

we don't really take patches, we just put it out there,
we don't really take patches, we just put it out there,

use it however you want, that's fine.
use it however you want, that's fine.

And then I think there's truly community-driven open-source
And then I think there's truly community-driven open-source

which is what Red Hat really tries to focus on.
which is what Red Hat really tries to focus on.

So if you're able to get Fedora, it's truly a community.
So if you're able to get Fedora, it's truly a community.

I think building those and maintaining those
I think building those and maintaining those

takes a lot of nurturing and a lot of care
takes a lot of nurturing and a lot of care

and a lot of love and feeding.
and a lot of love and feeding.

And I also think it takes a lot of discipline
And I also think it takes a lot of discipline

around allowing these best-of-breed ideas
around allowing these best-of-breed ideas

to kind of happen the way they're going to happen
to kind of happen the way they're going to happen

and then also fail if they don't work.
and then also fail if they don't work.

And so that can be tough, you know.
And so that can be tough, you know.

If you look at the model of a lot of startups,
If you look at the model of a lot of startups,

it's more kind of like unilaterally make decisions
it's more kind of like unilaterally make decisions

and then kind of release it and then if it sticks,
and then kind of release it and then if it sticks,

and it's fail-fast.
and it's fail-fast.

The community-driven model is a lot harder to handle
The community-driven model is a lot harder to handle

because consensus is harder to build
because consensus is harder to build

and so you've seen Jim talk about this,
and so you've seen Jim talk about this,

I mean one of the dangers
I mean one of the dangers

in an open organization of our size is consensus,
in an open organization of our size is consensus,

finding consensus and not going towards
finding consensus and not going towards

a completely consensus-driven decision model.
a completely consensus-driven decision model.

But that's hard because you have to satisfy everybody
But that's hard because you have to satisfy everybody

in the community and make sure everybody's
in the community and make sure everybody's

getting something out and everybody's putting something in.
getting something out and everybody's putting something in.

And so it's tough.
And so it's tough.

>> It's funny, I remember in OpenStack for a couple of years,
>> It's funny, I remember in OpenStack for a couple of years,

it's like, "Do we need, you know, the fanatical dictator
it's like, "Do we need, you know, the fanatical dictator

"of this ecosystem?"
"of this ecosystem?"

Red Hat, obviously is not, you know, a fanatical dictator
Red Hat, obviously is not, you know, a fanatical dictator

of its community.
of its community.

>> You can't win.
>> You can't win.

Do you think Docker has a fanatical dictator
Do you think Docker has a fanatical dictator

of their community?
of their community?

(laughter)
(laughter)

>> I, I, I'm sure the--
>> I, I, I'm sure the--

>> Or is the person a visionary, I mean, you know
>> Or is the person a visionary, I mean, you know

they'll put the positive euphemism on it.
they'll put the positive euphemism on it.

>> Yeah, yeah. Or the joking word in the community
>> Yeah, yeah. Or the joking word in the community

is the benevolent dictator.
is the benevolent dictator.

>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.

>> The benevolent dictator for life,
>> The benevolent dictator for life,

I think some of the communities work that way.
I think some of the communities work that way.

>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.

>> I think if you look at Python, you look at Linux,
>> I think if you look at Python, you look at Linux,

you know, it works that way.
you know, it works that way.

But if you've all got bigger projects,
But if you've all got bigger projects,

and I don't want to date myself,
and I don't want to date myself,

but you think about KDE and Gnome, and some of those,
but you think about KDE and Gnome, and some of those,

there's no benevolent dictator,
there's no benevolent dictator,

they're so big and so wide-reaching again.
they're so big and so wide-reaching again.

Such, you know, wide-use case differences
Such, you know, wide-use case differences

between what people do with them,
between what people do with them,

but I think it's hard to have that.
but I think it's hard to have that.

There are visionaries, you know, within the group.
There are visionaries, you know, within the group.

And even that's true in the kernel,
And even that's true in the kernel,

I mean if you look at what's happened, you know,
I mean if you look at what's happened, you know,

Linus has other generals essentially that kind of,
Linus has other generals essentially that kind of,

I mean it's become a very big community,
I mean it's become a very big community,

a very boisterous community.
a very boisterous community.

I think that that takes again, though,
I think that that takes again, though,

a lot of discipline and maintenance to make that happen
a lot of discipline and maintenance to make that happen

and keep that alive.
and keep that alive.

>> Alright, Scott, to take us on home, why don't you give us
>> Alright, Scott, to take us on home, why don't you give us

a little view as to what Red Hat has going on this week,
a little view as to what Red Hat has going on this week,

of course you guys have your big show Red Hat Summit
of course you guys have your big show Red Hat Summit

coming up in a couple of weeks,
coming up in a couple of weeks,

we'll have theCUBE there, I'm excited to be there, also,
we'll have theCUBE there, I'm excited to be there, also,

but you know, talk a little bit about this week
but you know, talk a little bit about this week

and what you guys are doing.
and what you guys are doing.

>> So this week, you know, we're excited
>> So this week, you know, we're excited

because we have kind of a bunch of three-five
because we have kind of a bunch of three-five

You know, I don't know if you guys,
You know, I don't know if you guys,

have you guys heard about Atomic Image?
have you guys heard about Atomic Image?

We released Atomic Image?
We released Atomic Image?

>> So it was not discussed in Brian's interview
>> So it was not discussed in Brian's interview

this morning, so. >> Okay!
this morning, so. >> Okay!

>> We would love to hear a little bit about it.
>> We would love to hear a little bit about it.

>> So Atomic Image, we've kind of looked at some of
>> So Atomic Image, we've kind of looked at some of

the use cases around how people are consuming containers
the use cases around how people are consuming containers

and I've blogged on about this and talked
and I've blogged on about this and talked

and honestly it's pretty deep technically
and honestly it's pretty deep technically

when you kind of get into it.
when you kind of get into it.

It's about having, you know, Soloman talked about it today,
It's about having, you know, Soloman talked about it today,

you know, image size matters,
you know, image size matters,

and there is definitely a hunger for smaller images,
and there is definitely a hunger for smaller images,

you don't want to have stuff that you don't want.
you don't want to have stuff that you don't want.

But that is also a very fine-line balance.
But that is also a very fine-line balance.

So the challenge being that
So the challenge being that

the typical way that enterprises operate
the typical way that enterprises operate

is that they have a core build
is that they have a core build

where they will add all the pieces that core build
where they will add all the pieces that core build

that they think should be everywhere, right?
that they think should be everywhere, right?

Because you don't, like, say you need
Because you don't, like, say you need

a fundamental core library like glibc,
a fundamental core library like glibc,

you wouldn't add that to all of the different applications,
you wouldn't add that to all of the different applications,

you would add it once and then inherit it in all the,
you would add it once and then inherit it in all the,

so it's kind of the dry model,
so it's kind of the dry model,

do not repeat yourself, right?
do not repeat yourself, right?

So when you get into this dry model
So when you get into this dry model

you got to balance the size of that base image versus,
you got to balance the size of that base image versus,

you know and it's flexibility versus conciseness,
you know and it's flexibility versus conciseness,

and you know, how concise it is.
and you know, how concise it is.

Atomic Image, though, is meant for,
Atomic Image, though, is meant for,

we essentially released a very minimal image that matters
we essentially released a very minimal image that matters

for those very concise applications,
for those very concise applications,

so if you look at like a C binary that's very small,
so if you look at like a C binary that's very small,

maybe all it needs is DNS resolutions,
maybe all it needs is DNS resolutions,

some other services from the OS from the userspace,
some other services from the OS from the userspace,

it doesn't need much, but it's a real small binary,
it doesn't need much, but it's a real small binary,

it wants a really small image to live on.
it wants a really small image to live on.

So we released something called Atomic Image
So we released something called Atomic Image

really targeting those use cases--
really targeting those use cases--

>> I don't know if I remember if Atomic is launched,
>> I don't know if I remember if Atomic is launched,

so it sounds a lot like
so it sounds a lot like

what Docker announced with the Linux Kit today, too.
what Docker announced with the Linux Kit today, too.

>> So, it's, flip-side of it--
>> So, it's, flip-side of it--

>> Maybe you could compare contrast a little bit.
>> Maybe you could compare contrast a little bit.

>> Yeah so, so I would compare Linux Kit to Atomic Coast,
>> Yeah so, so I would compare Linux Kit to Atomic Coast,

which we've had for a long time.
which we've had for a long time.

>> Stu: Okay.
>> Stu: Okay.

>> Which is the Kernel and systemd
>> Which is the Kernel and systemd

and kind of what runs the containers, right?
and kind of what runs the containers, right?

But now we've released a different userspace setup
But now we've released a different userspace setup

that's smaller-- >> Stu: Oh I got that, okay.
that's smaller-- >> Stu: Oh I got that, okay.

>> For, to run on top of, you know.
>> For, to run on top of, you know.

>> So like an agile minimum viable product,
>> So like an agile minimum viable product,

this is a minimum viable container
this is a minimum viable container

>> Yes.
>> Yes.

>> For a particular function.
>> For a particular function.

>> Yeah exactly, like BusyBox or some of the smaller images
>> Yeah exactly, like BusyBox or some of the smaller images

that you want to play with.
that you want to play with.

>> And Scott, do you guys have their website
>> And Scott, do you guys have their website

or some documentation that you recommend
or some documentation that you recommend

people starting with on your sites?
people starting with on your sites?

Yeah absolutely, I swear,
Yeah absolutely, I swear,

I think Project Atomic's a great place to start.
I think Project Atomic's a great place to start.

>> Stu: And that's in the blogs, I'm assuming, right?
>> Stu: And that's in the blogs, I'm assuming, right?

>> It is, if you blog for Atomic Image, too,
>> It is, if you blog for Atomic Image, too,

you'll find a REL Blog entry,
you'll find a REL Blog entry,

so REL Blog's a good place to kind of find
so REL Blog's a good place to kind of find

some of that stuff, so relblog.redhat.com
some of that stuff, so relblog.redhat.com

And then also if, if you look on just redhat.com.
And then also if, if you look on just redhat.com.

And also out container catalog is a good place
And also out container catalog is a good place

to actually go get started with that.
to actually go get started with that.

So if you go to access.redhat.com/containers.
So if you go to access.redhat.com/containers.

>> James: We'll get to that.
>> James: We'll get to that.

>> Scott McCardy, it's great catching up with you.
>> Scott McCardy, it's great catching up with you.

Next time we have you on we got to get the story
Next time we have you on we got to get the story

behind "fatherlinux" as your--
behind "fatherlinux" as your--

>> Yes! (laughs)
>> Yes! (laughs)

>> Alright, but we'll be back with more coverage here
>> Alright, but we'll be back with more coverage here

from DockerCon 2017, thank you for watching theCUBE.
from DockerCon 2017, thank you for watching theCUBE.