Hi guys, thanks for tuning in to another video on ForgottenWeapons.com.
Hi guys, thanks for tuning in to another video on ForgottenWeapons.com.

Today we're out here with a neat British rifle. This is in fact almost the shortest serving British service rifle.
Today we're out here with a neat British rifle. This is in fact almost the shortest serving British service rifle.

This is a Number 5 Mark I quote-unquote "Jungle Carbine".
This is a Number 5 Mark I quote-unquote "Jungle Carbine".

The development of these goes back to 1942, when the British military was getting some reports that,
The development of these goes back to 1942, when the British military was getting some reports that,

especially in the Far East, that the Number 4 service rifle was really longer than it needed to be, and was
especially in the Far East, that the Number 4 service rifle was really longer than it needed to be, and was

causing obstructions, it was not convenient. And a lot of troops wanted a shorter carbine.
causing obstructions, it was not convenient. And a lot of troops wanted a shorter carbine.

So they started experimenting with shortening Number 4 rifles,
So they started experimenting with shortening Number 4 rifles,

and by ... early 1944 they had a design pretty much in mind, which was this.
and by ... early 1944 they had a design pretty much in mind, which was this.

These went into production in 1944, about 250,000 of them in total were made.
These went into production in 1944, about 250,000 of them in total were made.

And they were declared obsolete in 1947.
And they were declared obsolete in 1947.

So a total of 3 years from when they started making them to when they just cut them off.
So a total of 3 years from when they started making them to when they just cut them off.

Now there are a couple reasons for that that we'll get into, but first let's take a look at what makes this gun different.
Now there are a couple reasons for that that we'll get into, but first let's take a look at what makes this gun different.

For one thing I should point out a lot of these are faked. Sometimes people are just making replicas
For one thing I should point out a lot of these are faked. Sometimes people are just making replicas

and acknowledging them as such. Sometimes people are trying to sell you a "Jungle Carbine" that they've made out of another rifle.
and acknowledging them as such. Sometimes people are trying to sell you a "Jungle Carbine" that they've made out of another rifle.

Because there is a price premium for these.
Because there is a price premium for these.

What the British did that really makes this different, other than there's some obvious things,
What the British did that really makes this different, other than there's some obvious things,

the stock is shorter. The barrel has been cut down, it's an 18.7 inch barrel.
the stock is shorter. The barrel has been cut down, it's an 18.7 inch barrel.

... 20.5 inches overall when you include the flash hider. And the flash hider is another added part.
... 20.5 inches overall when you include the flash hider. And the flash hider is another added part.

And of course the buttstock is different. A little different profile, it's got a side sling mount,
And of course the buttstock is different. A little different profile, it's got a side sling mount,

and it's got a little rubber recoil pad on it. Which is sort of a joke, but we'll touch on that as well.
and it's got a little rubber recoil pad on it. Which is sort of a joke, but we'll touch on that as well.

So those are the obvious external changes, and when people fake them that's what they change.
So those are the obvious external changes, and when people fake them that's what they change.

What's much harder to fake is the fact that the British also lightened a whole bunch of different parts of this rifle.
What's much harder to fake is the fact that the British also lightened a whole bunch of different parts of this rifle.

This is actually just over 7 pounds, so it's quite a bit lighter than the standard Number 4.
This is actually just over 7 pounds, so it's quite a bit lighter than the standard Number 4.

They did that by taking cuts in places like scallops on the rear of the receiver here, and here.
They did that by taking cuts in places like scallops on the rear of the receiver here, and here.

There are lightening cuts to the side.
There are lightening cuts to the side.

The most dramatic one that you can see is actually under the handguard.
The most dramatic one that you can see is actually under the handguard.

We'll pull that off in a minute or get a picture of it.
We'll pull that off in a minute or get a picture of it.

The barrel has been almost fluted for about an inch right in front of the chamber here.
The barrel has been almost fluted for about an inch right in front of the chamber here.

And ... these machining cuts to the receiver and the barrel are things that are very difficult to fake.
And ... these machining cuts to the receiver and the barrel are things that are very difficult to fake.

They're just not cost-effective. So if you know what lightening cuts to look for,
They're just not cost-effective. So if you know what lightening cuts to look for,

you can generally do a very good job of avoiding inauthentic rifles.
you can generally do a very good job of avoiding inauthentic rifles.

You'll also find the markings on the socket here, where all Enfields are generally marked,
You'll also find the markings on the socket here, where all Enfields are generally marked,

these Number 5s were made by two companies, Fazakerley and BSA.
these Number 5s were made by two companies, Fazakerley and BSA.

The BSA ones will be marked M47C, that doesn't have anything to do with the date,
The BSA ones will be marked M47C, that doesn't have anything to do with the date,

that's BSA's production code during World War Two.
that's BSA's production code during World War Two.

The Fazakerley ones will be marked ROF(F) ... so Royal Ordnance Factories, Fazakerley.
The Fazakerley ones will be marked ROF(F) ... so Royal Ordnance Factories, Fazakerley.

And if you don't see those markings, that's a pretty dead giveaway that it's not a legit rifle.
And if you don't see those markings, that's a pretty dead giveaway that it's not a legit rifle.

They will often be electro-pencil marked Number 5 Mark I. That's not uncommon, and that can be legit.
They will often be electro-pencil marked Number 5 Mark I. That's not uncommon, and that can be legit.

And then of course serial numbers, it's typically a four digit serial number with either a one or a two letter prefix.
And then of course serial numbers, it's typically a four digit serial number with either a one or a two letter prefix.

Now, the problems that these had, the reasons that these got made obsolete so quickly,
Now, the problems that these had, the reasons that these got made obsolete so quickly,

or judged obsolete so quickly, was what's called "wandering zero".
or judged obsolete so quickly, was what's called "wandering zero".

There's a lot of rumour, a lot of myth about this.
There's a lot of rumour, a lot of myth about this.

... Basically what happened is during the war troops really liked the size and the handling of these carbines.
... Basically what happened is during the war troops really liked the size and the handling of these carbines.

What they didn't like was that a lot of them seemed to have trouble zeroing.
What they didn't like was that a lot of them seemed to have trouble zeroing.

You'd zero them once, and you come back later and they'd be shooting somewhere else.
You'd zero them once, and you come back later and they'd be shooting somewhere else.

And you re-zero them, and then you come back later and they'd be shooting somewhere else again entirely.
And you re-zero them, and then you come back later and they'd be shooting somewhere else again entirely.

And the British actually went through quite a bit of trouble trying to diagnose what was going on here.
And the British actually went through quite a bit of trouble trying to diagnose what was going on here.

Some of the rifles work fine, shoot fine.
Some of the rifles work fine, shoot fine.

I'm sure a lot of them were in the hands of troops who didn't notice, or didn't really
I'm sure a lot of them were in the hands of troops who didn't notice, or didn't really

put enough effort in to care about exactly where the zero was.
put enough effort in to care about exactly where the zero was.

But ... there were a bunch of theories.
But ... there were a bunch of theories.

Some people thought that the stocks were swelling with changes in heat and humidity.
Some people thought that the stocks were swelling with changes in heat and humidity.

Some people thought it was the muzzle brake that was causing accuracy issues.
Some people thought it was the muzzle brake that was causing accuracy issues.

Enfield, or the British government, tested a bunch of these different hypotheses.
Enfield, or the British government, tested a bunch of these different hypotheses.

What they came to find was that the dispersion, the accuracy problems that the rifles had,
What they came to find was that the dispersion, the accuracy problems that the rifles had,

were actually statistically very similar to the problems you would get from a Number 4 rifle
were actually statistically very similar to the problems you would get from a Number 4 rifle

where the bolt wasn't machined correctly, and wasn't always coming up perfectly square with the face of the barrel.
where the bolt wasn't machined correctly, and wasn't always coming up perfectly square with the face of the barrel.

And ... the conclusion that they came to was that the wandering zero was caused by
And ... the conclusion that they came to was that the wandering zero was caused by

lightening cuts under the stock here on the receiver (that were of course made to lighten the rifle as part
lightening cuts under the stock here on the receiver (that were of course made to lighten the rifle as part

of its role as a lightweight carbine), but they were allowing the receiver to flex slightly under maximum strain.
of its role as a lightweight carbine), but they were allowing the receiver to flex slightly under maximum strain.

And that was
And that was

putting an angle between the bolt and the receiver very slightly, and that was causing the zeroing problems.
putting an angle between the bolt and the receiver very slightly, and that was causing the zeroing problems.

And they tried to make some fixes. They ultimately concluded that it was simply an inherently flawed design.
And they tried to make some fixes. They ultimately concluded that it was simply an inherently flawed design.

And that's why they they decided to render these rifles officially obsolete in July of 1947.
And that's why they they decided to render these rifles officially obsolete in July of 1947.

Now some production did continue until the end of '47. There are some known authentic guns dated as late as December of '47.
Now some production did continue until the end of '47. There are some known authentic guns dated as late as December of '47.

But that's the official story: lightening cuts in the receiver caused inaccuracy, caused wandering zero,
But that's the official story: lightening cuts in the receiver caused inaccuracy, caused wandering zero,

and led to the dropping of this rifle as a British standard.
and led to the dropping of this rifle as a British standard.

Now as a handy shooter's gun, I'm really looking forward to shooting this.
Now as a handy shooter's gun, I'm really looking forward to shooting this.

It is definitely handier, it's got the nice fast bolt action of an Enfield, it's got a 10 round magazine. I think it'll be pretty cool.
It is definitely handier, it's got the nice fast bolt action of an Enfield, it's got a 10 round magazine. I think it'll be pretty cool.

One other thing to point out. The flash hider on here, ... the standard running thing
One other thing to point out. The flash hider on here, ... the standard running thing

is that's there so that the shooter doesn't blind themselves shooting at night.
is that's there so that the shooter doesn't blind themselves shooting at night.

In this case, whether that's true or not, the reason that the flash hiders were put on
In this case, whether that's true or not, the reason that the flash hiders were put on

was actually because the British armed forces figured that in jungle combat concealment was very important,
was actually because the British armed forces figured that in jungle combat concealment was very important,

and it was a significant factor to conceal a rifle flash from the enemy.
and it was a significant factor to conceal a rifle flash from the enemy.

So that's the reason, the justification that they gave for developing this flash hider. And it did work pretty well.
So that's the reason, the justification that they gave for developing this flash hider. And it did work pretty well.

You don't need one on the Number 4 rifles because the barrel is longer
You don't need one on the Number 4 rifles because the barrel is longer

and the ammunition doesn't generally have a visible flash during the day.
and the ammunition doesn't generally have a visible flash during the day.

With this carbine length it did, so they needed to put on a flash hider to conceal it.
With this carbine length it did, so they needed to put on a flash hider to conceal it.

So loading on these is just like a standard Lee-Enfield. We have a charger bridge. We have 5 rounds stripper clips.
So loading on these is just like a standard Lee-Enfield. We have a charger bridge. We have 5 rounds stripper clips.

We're probably going to get some hang fires with this ammo, this is 1941 production ammo.
We're probably going to get some hang fires with this ammo, this is 1941 production ammo.

5 rounds, that's only got 4 in it.
5 rounds, that's only got 4 in it.

Second clip. One thing to keep in mind, as always with Enfield clips you want the second and fourth rounds
Second clip. One thing to keep in mind, as always with Enfield clips you want the second and fourth rounds

to have the rims riding up on top of rounds one, three and five.
to have the rims riding up on top of rounds one, three and five.

That ensures that you won't get rim lock when you load the magazine up.
That ensures that you won't get rim lock when you load the magazine up.

Or maybe it doesn't because that's exactly what I have here. Let's fix that, there we go.
Or maybe it doesn't because that's exactly what I have here. Let's fix that, there we go.

Rear sight on the Number 5 is this very large ghost ring.
Rear sight on the Number 5 is this very large ghost ring.

If you want a more precise sight, you can flip it up and you have a smaller aperture
If you want a more precise sight, you can flip it up and you have a smaller aperture

that you can run out to 800 yards. I'm just going to go ahead and use the ghost ring for now.
that you can run out to 800 yards. I'm just going to go ahead and use the ghost ring for now.

Three for three, that's pretty good.
Three for three, that's pretty good.

Now I mentioned the recoil pad that these have. That was originally intended to actually soften recoil.
Now I mentioned the recoil pad that these have. That was originally intended to actually soften recoil.

Of course it's ... a lighter carbine using a standard service cartridge, so it was thought recoil would be hefty, and it was.
Of course it's ... a lighter carbine using a standard service cartridge, so it was thought recoil would be hefty, and it was.

... The problem when they designed this recoil pad though,
... The problem when they designed this recoil pad though,

is that it's actually significantly smaller than the profile of the end of the stock.
is that it's actually significantly smaller than the profile of the end of the stock.

So, (and pretty much all of them today are pretty much rock-hard), but originally you had, yeah, a softer recoil pad,
So, (and pretty much all of them today are pretty much rock-hard), but originally you had, yeah, a softer recoil pad,

but you're also focusing all the recoil of the rifle onto this smaller area.
but you're also focusing all the recoil of the rifle onto this smaller area.

So I'm not sure it really did a whole lot of good.
So I'm not sure it really did a whole lot of good.

Today it definitely doesn't do any good because, like I said, they're all 70 years old and rock-hard.
Today it definitely doesn't do any good because, like I said, they're all 70 years old and rock-hard.

Not bad, I like this. It's definitely shorter. It's definitely handier.
Not bad, I like this. It's definitely shorter. It's definitely handier.

Obviously, I haven't actually tested this one out to see how it holds zero,
Obviously, I haven't actually tested this one out to see how it holds zero,

but for up-close jungle fighting, I think these probably would have been effective.
but for up-close jungle fighting, I think these probably would have been effective.

Certainly a lot of troops would have preferred them over a full-length rifle.
Certainly a lot of troops would have preferred them over a full-length rifle.

Thanks for tuning in guys, I hope you enjoyed the video.
Thanks for tuning in guys, I hope you enjoyed the video.

Very cool, 1945 dated, Number 5 "Jungle Carbine" here.
Very cool, 1945 dated, Number 5 "Jungle Carbine" here.

Tune back into ForgottenWeapons.com for more World War Two service rifles.
Tune back into ForgottenWeapons.com for more World War Two service rifles.

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