Welcome everyone.
Welcome everyone.

My name is Steve Mizek and I'm a social media specialist
My name is Steve Mizek and I'm a social media specialist

at Rush University Medical Center.
at Rush University Medical Center.

Thank you everyone for joining us today.
Thank you everyone for joining us today.

We're going to be talking with Dr. Latania Logan,
We're going to be talking with Dr. Latania Logan,

a pediatric infectious disease specialist at Rush.
a pediatric infectious disease specialist at Rush.

Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you so much for joining us.

Let's just start by telling us a little bit
Let's just start by telling us a little bit

about what you do at Rush.
about what you do at Rush.

Sure, thank you so much for having me.
Sure, thank you so much for having me.

So I am, as you said,
So I am, as you said,

a pediatric infectious diseases doctor at Rush,
a pediatric infectious diseases doctor at Rush,

so I do see patients, but I also do research
so I do see patients, but I also do research

and I actually do research on antibiotic resistant bacteria.
and I actually do research on antibiotic resistant bacteria.

In my other roles, I'm the hospital epidemiologist,
In my other roles, I'm the hospital epidemiologist,

so I'm dealing with COVID and those kinds of things.
so I'm dealing with COVID and those kinds of things.

And I am the chief of my section
And I am the chief of my section

and the vice chair of research
and the vice chair of research

for the department of pediatrics.
for the department of pediatrics.

Great, and so today we're going to be talking
Great, and so today we're going to be talking

about kids and COVID.
about kids and COVID.

Our understanding of how kids are affected by COVID
Our understanding of how kids are affected by COVID

has changed.
has changed.

When we started out the pandemic,
When we started out the pandemic,

we kind of thought that it was really,
we kind of thought that it was really,

young ones weren't affected so much,
young ones weren't affected so much,

and then these days it seems like that's starting to change.
and then these days it seems like that's starting to change.

Can you tell us a little bit about why that's changed
Can you tell us a little bit about why that's changed

and what the situation is now for kids and COVID?
and what the situation is now for kids and COVID?

Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah, that's a great question.

So, it's more than one reason
So, it's more than one reason

that this is occurring right now.
that this is occurring right now.

The first part of it is actually,
The first part of it is actually,

in some ways, a good reason.
in some ways, a good reason.

So when we started vaccinating,
So when we started vaccinating,

our priority was to vaccinate the healthcare workers
our priority was to vaccinate the healthcare workers

and the seniors, so the age 65 and older.
and the seniors, so the age 65 and older.

And now we're at the point
And now we're at the point

where 80% of seniors are vaccinated, right?
where 80% of seniors are vaccinated, right?

So when you see COVID right now,
So when you see COVID right now,

you're seeing a younger age group
you're seeing a younger age group

who's getting COVID infections.
who's getting COVID infections.

And so the children are within that younger age group.
And so the children are within that younger age group.

Now, why is it different this wave though,
Now, why is it different this wave though,

than the prior waves?
than the prior waves?

And the, one of the big reasons for that
And the, one of the big reasons for that

is the strain or the strains that are out
is the strain or the strains that are out

are more contagious.
are more contagious.

So the children are also affected
So the children are also affected

by these more contagious strains,
by these more contagious strains,

and now we're starting to see children
and now we're starting to see children

who used to not have any symptoms or be affected
who used to not have any symptoms or be affected

now are infected
now are infected

and you can actually see them with symptoms.
and you can actually see them with symptoms.

Are we seeing hospitalization rates
Are we seeing hospitalization rates

similar to like what it was for adults before
similar to like what it was for adults before

as it relates to kids?
as it relates to kids?

So that's a great question.
So that's a great question.

We are not seeing a ton of children being hospitalized,
We are not seeing a ton of children being hospitalized,

there are more kids being hospitalized
there are more kids being hospitalized

in certain regions right now,
in certain regions right now,

who are having, such as Michigan,
who are having, such as Michigan,

and some of the areas in the East Coast
and some of the areas in the East Coast

that are seeing some very large surges
that are seeing some very large surges

of cases of COVID in children.
of cases of COVID in children.

But what we are seeing is about 1/3 of the kids
But what we are seeing is about 1/3 of the kids

who are hospitalized have severe disease.
who are hospitalized have severe disease.

So it is enough children who are being hospitalized,
So it is enough children who are being hospitalized,

however, it's still a low fraction
however, it's still a low fraction

of all of the children who have COVID
of all of the children who have COVID

that actually have symptoms
that actually have symptoms

that require any type of medical care.
that require any type of medical care.

I see.
I see.

And are you seeing that, like,
And are you seeing that, like,

is it just because of this variant
is it just because of this variant

is more infectious in general
is more infectious in general

or does it seem to have a different impact on kids
or does it seem to have a different impact on kids

just because of how, what the variant is?
just because of how, what the variant is?

Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah, that's a great question.

We're still learning about these variants
We're still learning about these variants

and there's really a few of these variants of concern
and there's really a few of these variants of concern

that are out there right now.
that are out there right now.

So the big one here in our region and across the US
So the big one here in our region and across the US

is this B.1.1.7, which has also been called the UK variant,
is this B.1.1.7, which has also been called the UK variant,

as to where it started.
as to where it started.

That strain has taken over
That strain has taken over

as the most common strain we're seeing,
as the most common strain we're seeing,

and we know it overall to be more contagious.
and we know it overall to be more contagious.

So I don't think that it's necessarily
So I don't think that it's necessarily

that it's just a kid thing,
that it's just a kid thing,

I just think that this strain
I just think that this strain

just like if you have a bad flu season,
just like if you have a bad flu season,

this strain itself is more contagious,
this strain itself is more contagious,

it's going to affect more people.
it's going to affect more people.

Gotcha, that makes sense.
Gotcha, that makes sense.

So kids have also, not all,
So kids have also, not all,

but a lot of kids have gone back to in-person learning
but a lot of kids have gone back to in-person learning

and they're around their peers again.
and they're around their peers again.

Do we feel like in-person learning
Do we feel like in-person learning

is contributing to the spread
is contributing to the spread

or is it just the variant itself?
or is it just the variant itself?

Yeah, great question, this comes up a lot.
Yeah, great question, this comes up a lot.

I have two kids on my own, they're age seven and 10,
I have two kids on my own, they're age seven and 10,

and they are at in-person school
and they are at in-person school

and I'm completely comfortable with them being there.
and I'm completely comfortable with them being there.

I think in-person school is not the problem.
I think in-person school is not the problem.

If you look at transmission within schools
If you look at transmission within schools

that are following the mitigation strategy,
that are following the mitigation strategy,

so meaning they are social distancing,
so meaning they are social distancing,

they are doing their hand hygiene,
they are doing their hand hygiene,

they have good ventilation, they are masking.
they have good ventilation, they are masking.

These schools are not seeing transmission rates
These schools are not seeing transmission rates

that are higher than a half percent, total.
that are higher than a half percent, total.

So that means if you look at transmission within school
So that means if you look at transmission within school

to find one transmission within the school,
to find one transmission within the school,

you'd have to test like 200 people.
you'd have to test like 200 people.

Whereas what is really contributing to it
Whereas what is really contributing to it

is the events that are taking place outside of the school.
is the events that are taking place outside of the school.

So kids on their play dates,
So kids on their play dates,

or kids at their youth sports, which is a big deal.
or kids at their youth sports, which is a big deal.

Kids who are congregating and having meals together.
Kids who are congregating and having meals together.

Or the kids who are not using the mask etiquette.
Or the kids who are not using the mask etiquette.

The other thing is that now 80% of teachers are vaccinated.
The other thing is that now 80% of teachers are vaccinated.

That's huge.
That's huge.

If the teachers aren't contributing to spread
If the teachers aren't contributing to spread

and now you're getting 16 and 17 year olds vaccinated,
and now you're getting 16 and 17 year olds vaccinated,

the risk of the transmission in schools
the risk of the transmission in schools

is even that much more plummeted.
is even that much more plummeted.

So I don't think that schools
So I don't think that schools

are going to be a big factor going forward.
are going to be a big factor going forward.

I'm sure that's very reassuring to parents.
I'm sure that's very reassuring to parents.

You mentioned youth sports when you were talking.
You mentioned youth sports when you were talking.

And I understand that I've heard it said
And I understand that I've heard it said

that youth sports have been a big contributor,
that youth sports have been a big contributor,

and not necessarily because of when they're playing,
and not necessarily because of when they're playing,

but because when they're traveling or stuff like that
but because when they're traveling or stuff like that

can you talk to about that at all?
can you talk to about that at all?

Absolutely, yeah.
Absolutely, yeah.

So that's exactly right.
So that's exactly right.

So people are wondering,
So people are wondering,

why would the kids be getting infected in these sports?
why would the kids be getting infected in these sports?

You know, of course, being inside those sports
You know, of course, being inside those sports

are going to be at a higher risk.
are going to be at a higher risk.

Because you're in these settings where it's closed off,
Because you're in these settings where it's closed off,

maybe the ventilation isn't as good,
maybe the ventilation isn't as good,

the children are in contact with each other.
the children are in contact with each other.

One of the big things is,
One of the big things is,

where they are when they are next to each other
where they are when they are next to each other

in spaces like the bench, right?
in spaces like the bench, right?

Let's say you're outside and playing baseball
Let's say you're outside and playing baseball

and you're in a dugout.
and you're in a dugout.

You're right next to each other.
You're right next to each other.

I mean, that's the way it was, it's still like that.
I mean, that's the way it was, it's still like that.

So we have to work on the spacing of those children
So we have to work on the spacing of those children

and their masks.
and their masks.

You know, some kids are very good,
You know, some kids are very good,

there are athletes around with basketball
there are athletes around with basketball

where the kids wear the mask the whole time.
where the kids wear the mask the whole time.

There's not any transmission that's going on in those areas.
There's not any transmission that's going on in those areas.

However, there are several
However, there are several

where the kids are not as good at that.
where the kids are not as good at that.

Neither are the coaches, we see that sometimes.
Neither are the coaches, we see that sometimes.

And that is where you're going to start
And that is where you're going to start

to see this transmission happen.
to see this transmission happen.

Additionally, kids do things like share water bottles.
Additionally, kids do things like share water bottles.

So you have to be willing to put in the effort
So you have to be willing to put in the effort

to make sure that the children are following the strategies.
to make sure that the children are following the strategies.

If they are, then I think some of them can be very safe.
If they are, then I think some of them can be very safe.

But I do think that the contact sports
But I do think that the contact sports

are going to be a lot more difficult to control,
are going to be a lot more difficult to control,

particularly because the kids are so used
particularly because the kids are so used

to being next to each other,
to being next to each other,

and then they let their guard down a little bit easier.
and then they let their guard down a little bit easier.

Sure, that makes good sense.
Sure, that makes good sense.

So I've heard it said the only way
So I've heard it said the only way

for us to reach herd immunity as a society
for us to reach herd immunity as a society

is to vaccinate kids.
is to vaccinate kids.

What's your opinion about that?
What's your opinion about that?

Yeah, so it's so funny, Dr. Fauci just came out
Yeah, so it's so funny, Dr. Fauci just came out

and he's like,
and he's like,

"I'm done talking about herd immunity."
"I'm done talking about herd immunity."

And part of the issue
And part of the issue

is that we really just want to get people vaccinated.
is that we really just want to get people vaccinated.

But we have to think about it like this,
But we have to think about it like this,

vaccination is not mandatory,
vaccination is not mandatory,

and there's a whole section of the country, of society,
and there's a whole section of the country, of society,

that doesn't want to get vaccinated,
that doesn't want to get vaccinated,

they are not willing to do it.
they are not willing to do it.

In this case, the children are very important.
In this case, the children are very important.

Because there's going to be a whole area of people
Because there's going to be a whole area of people

that may live near each other that aren't vaccinated.
that may live near each other that aren't vaccinated.

And that is going to put that whole community at risk.
And that is going to put that whole community at risk.

So herd immunity is important
So herd immunity is important

in terms of not just overall immunity for US,
in terms of not just overall immunity for US,

but pockets of people all over the US
but pockets of people all over the US

that need to be vaccinated are not getting vaccinated.
that need to be vaccinated are not getting vaccinated.

In those areas, kids would be helpful.
In those areas, kids would be helpful.

In our area, if all the adults are vaccinated,
In our area, if all the adults are vaccinated,

then the kid vaccination is less important
then the kid vaccination is less important

because we're not going to spread it to the kids.
because we're not going to spread it to the kids.

But overall, I think that the kids
But overall, I think that the kids

are going to be super important
are going to be super important

because they're going to be the only ones left
because they're going to be the only ones left

not to be vaccinated.
not to be vaccinated.

And then the last thing I'll just say about that is,
And then the last thing I'll just say about that is,

if you think about herd immunity,
if you think about herd immunity,

what really is important is the global immunity.
what really is important is the global immunity.

We travel, we all go outside, come to the country,
We travel, we all go outside, come to the country,

this kind of thing. So we really need to think about it
this kind of thing. So we really need to think about it

from that more of a standpoint of,
from that more of a standpoint of,

we need to get everyone vaccinated,
we need to get everyone vaccinated,

not just here in the US, but around the world.
not just here in the US, but around the world.

Right.
Right.

So many parents were eager to get vaccinated themselves
So many parents were eager to get vaccinated themselves

as soon as they possibly could.
as soon as they possibly could.

But when it comes to vaccinating kids,
But when it comes to vaccinating kids,

sometimes people are a little bit more hesitant or worried,
sometimes people are a little bit more hesitant or worried,

they have concerns.
they have concerns.

Obviously it's still not available yet to kids.
Obviously it's still not available yet to kids.

But what would you say to parents
But what would you say to parents

about thinking about vaccinating their kids for COVID?
about thinking about vaccinating their kids for COVID?

Well, the first thing I would say is that,
Well, the first thing I would say is that,

the minute the vaccine's approved
the minute the vaccine's approved

and I've looked at all this data,
and I've looked at all this data,

and I'm convinced
and I'm convinced

that these are going to be very safe in children,
that these are going to be very safe in children,

that I will get my children vaccinated.
that I will get my children vaccinated.

The other thing I'd like to bring up is that,
The other thing I'd like to bring up is that,

if we really think about vaccines
if we really think about vaccines

in the hundreds of years that we've been giving them,
in the hundreds of years that we've been giving them,

most of the vaccines are given in childhood,
most of the vaccines are given in childhood,

from the time we're born until we're 100 plus,
from the time we're born until we're 100 plus,

we're getting vaccines.
we're getting vaccines.

And these are safe.
And these are safe.

The side effects that we see from vaccines are very rare,
The side effects that we see from vaccines are very rare,

and most commonly the mild things like getting a sore arm
and most commonly the mild things like getting a sore arm

or whatever, they're short-lived.
or whatever, they're short-lived.

They start at the very beginning of the time
They start at the very beginning of the time

which you got it,
which you got it,

and they end very quickly
and they end very quickly

after the time of which you got it.
after the time of which you got it.

They're not in a lot of long-term issues
They're not in a lot of long-term issues

that ever been associated with any of these vaccines.
that ever been associated with any of these vaccines.

So I wouldn't look at this vaccine any different
So I wouldn't look at this vaccine any different

than the childhood vaccines that we give
than the childhood vaccines that we give

that have saved millions and millions of lives.
that have saved millions and millions of lives.

This one also will do the same thing.
This one also will do the same thing.

So like I said, you can come in line with me and my kids
So like I said, you can come in line with me and my kids

when it comes out, 'cause we'll be there.
when it comes out, 'cause we'll be there.

Great, well, that's a ringing endorsement
Great, well, that's a ringing endorsement

if I've ever heard one.
if I've ever heard one.

So as the summer approaches,
So as the summer approaches,

many parents are starting to think about sleep away camps.
many parents are starting to think about sleep away camps.

And you know, what guidance would you give parents
And you know, what guidance would you give parents

who are trying to navigate whether or not that's feels safe
who are trying to navigate whether or not that's feels safe

or whether that's the right thing for them and their kids?
or whether that's the right thing for them and their kids?

Yes, this is a hot button topic, I will say.
Yes, this is a hot button topic, I will say.

I get this a lot, it's a very good question.
I get this a lot, it's a very good question.

And I think it's going to be dependent
And I think it's going to be dependent

on where your kids are at the time,
on where your kids are at the time,

where they live, where is the camp?
where they live, where is the camp?

What research have you done to look at this camp
What research have you done to look at this camp

to know that they're following the mitigation strategies?
to know that they're following the mitigation strategies?

What happened last summer?
What happened last summer?

Did they have a camp?
Did they have a camp?

There've been some summer camps
There've been some summer camps

that we know had lots of outbreaks within them
that we know had lots of outbreaks within them

that were in the sleep away camps.
that were in the sleep away camps.

The day camps on the other hand,
The day camps on the other hand,

have not had a substantial problem.
have not had a substantial problem.

So I think that each camp is going to have
So I think that each camp is going to have

to have a really solid plan
to have a really solid plan

as to how they're going to keep their staff
as to how they're going to keep their staff

and their children from getting infected.
and their children from getting infected.

The other thing that I will say that will be helpful
The other thing that I will say that will be helpful

is if you know whether or not their staff are vaccinated.
is if you know whether or not their staff are vaccinated.

You want to know if the staff are vaccinated.
You want to know if the staff are vaccinated.

And we know that hopefully Pfizer,
And we know that hopefully Pfizer,

who is already filed for an amendment
who is already filed for an amendment

to get their vaccine approved for 12-to-15 year olds,
to get their vaccine approved for 12-to-15 year olds,

if your kid is going to get that vaccine in May or June
if your kid is going to get that vaccine in May or June

then that child is actually even more,
then that child is actually even more,

likely somebody who would be okay
likely somebody who would be okay

to go to the sleep away camp.
to go to the sleep away camp.

So I think that overall,
So I think that overall,

during a time where there's a surge, it's hard to say,
during a time where there's a surge, it's hard to say,

"Yeah, I would really send my kids anywhere."
"Yeah, I would really send my kids anywhere."

For me, I couldn't do it.
For me, I couldn't do it.

But I think that some parents will have that option
But I think that some parents will have that option

particularly if they have a break camp
particularly if they have a break camp

that has these mitigation strategies in place,
that has these mitigation strategies in place,

they have high vaccination rates,
they have high vaccination rates,

and they're going to have these children
and they're going to have these children

who possibly are also vaccinated at camp.
who possibly are also vaccinated at camp.

So what's the timeline looking like
So what's the timeline looking like

for being able to vaccinate younger ones,
for being able to vaccinate younger ones,

than who are currently available to get it now?
than who are currently available to get it now?

It's a great question.
It's a great question.

So 12 to 15,
So 12 to 15,

Pfizer put in the amendment a couple of weeks ago.
Pfizer put in the amendment a couple of weeks ago.

So we actually think by May or June,
So we actually think by May or June,

that Pfizer will get that approval,
that Pfizer will get that approval,

because it was by their statement,
because it was by their statement,

it was 100% protective in children.
it was 100% protective in children.

So I think that they will get their approval
So I think that they will get their approval

and that'll be great.
and that'll be great.

So then those kids be okay from May and June
So then those kids be okay from May and June

and going into the summer.
and going into the summer.

The littles, as I call them the six month to 11 years
The littles, as I call them the six month to 11 years

where my kids are in that cohort,
where my kids are in that cohort,

they've started the trials.
they've started the trials.

Pfizer has started their trials,
Pfizer has started their trials,

Moderna has also started those trials,
Moderna has also started those trials,

they've been a little bit slow on the front end,
they've been a little bit slow on the front end,

while they're just getting, make sure everything's in place.
while they're just getting, make sure everything's in place.

But we anticipate that those trials will be done,
But we anticipate that those trials will be done,

and that hopefully those children in the youngest age group
and that hopefully those children in the youngest age group

will have a vaccine by the end of 2021
will have a vaccine by the end of 2021

or the beginning of 2022.
or the beginning of 2022.

I see.
I see.

Do we know anything if Johnson & Johnson
Do we know anything if Johnson & Johnson

is going to be participating for kids as well?
is going to be participating for kids as well?

Well, yes, they did.
Well, yes, they did.

They actually, Johnson & Johnson also
They actually, Johnson & Johnson also

has been doing 12 to 17 year olds.
has been doing 12 to 17 year olds.

I think everything's on pause right now for them,
I think everything's on pause right now for them,

but yes, they have also started their trials in 12 to 17,
but yes, they have also started their trials in 12 to 17,

which will be great,
which will be great,

'cause that's a one-shot vaccine for the kids.
'cause that's a one-shot vaccine for the kids.

Can you, I know that many of us know
Can you, I know that many of us know

what's been going on with Johnson & Johnson,
what's been going on with Johnson & Johnson,

why it was paused,
why it was paused,

but would you mind just filling us in,
but would you mind just filling us in,

just 'cause for someone who maybe doesn't know?
just 'cause for someone who maybe doesn't know?

Oh sure, absolutely.
Oh sure, absolutely.

So what had occurred is,
So what had occurred is,

basically what we've learned is that the system works.
basically what we've learned is that the system works.

There's something called VAERS,
There's something called VAERS,

which is basically a system where people, anybody,
which is basically a system where people, anybody,

can enter in side effects that they have from vaccines,
can enter in side effects that they have from vaccines,

including doctors, you as a person,
including doctors, you as a person,

anyone can enter this in,
anyone can enter this in,

it's been working beautifully. And how do we know that?
it's been working beautifully. And how do we know that?

Because there were six cases
Because there were six cases

of people who had had blood clots
of people who had had blood clots

after the Johnson & Johnson vaccine that had occurred
after the Johnson & Johnson vaccine that had occurred

between about a week or two
between about a week or two

after they've gotten the vaccine.
after they've gotten the vaccine.

That's six people out of over 7 million.
That's six people out of over 7 million.

So the rate of this occurrence is very, very low.
So the rate of this occurrence is very, very low.

And there may be something about these particular people
And there may be something about these particular people

that has allowed them to have these low platelets
that has allowed them to have these low platelets

where they're having these low platelets,
where they're having these low platelets,

normally cause bleeding,
normally cause bleeding,

but are associated with clotting.
but are associated with clotting.

So that vaccine, the Johnson & Johnson
So that vaccine, the Johnson & Johnson

and also the AstraZeneca vaccine,
and also the AstraZeneca vaccine,

which is not approved here,
which is not approved here,

but they're a very similar type of vaccine,
but they're a very similar type of vaccine,

they are also looking at it
they are also looking at it

in the other countries that use that.
in the other countries that use that.

And all of that collated data is being looked at by ACIP,
And all of that collated data is being looked at by ACIP,

which is our immunization practice body
which is our immunization practice body

that works with the CDC
that works with the CDC

that validates whether or not we should use this.
that validates whether or not we should use this.

They will be meeting Friday
They will be meeting Friday

and we will know whether or not
and we will know whether or not

we're going to resume the vaccine.
we're going to resume the vaccine.

We believe that they will likely resume at this point.
We believe that they will likely resume at this point.

It's really looking at these last couple of weeks
It's really looking at these last couple of weeks

and seeing if they have more cases.
and seeing if they have more cases.

Right, and I know that one of the things
Right, and I know that one of the things

that I've heard a lot said is that,
that I've heard a lot said is that,

birth control causes blood clots
birth control causes blood clots

at a higher rate than this does.
at a higher rate than this does.

And so I think that's something
And so I think that's something

that's good for people to know, have that context,
that's good for people to know, have that context,

that this isn't necessarily statistically that important
that this isn't necessarily statistically that important

relative to the abundance of concern that's being put in it.
relative to the abundance of concern that's being put in it.

Or looking at it
Or looking at it

as it's happening in less than one in a million people.
as it's happening in less than one in a million people.

So, call yourself one in a million,
So, call yourself one in a million,

you know, that's a good thing in some ways,
you know, that's a good thing in some ways,

but this and this side, it's one of those rare side effects.
but this and this side, it's one of those rare side effects.

Right.
Right.

We've had a couple of questions from the audience.
We've had a couple of questions from the audience.

The first one, babies,
The first one, babies,

are babies susceptible to getting COVID
are babies susceptible to getting COVID

if they're not wearing masks? This is a great question.
if they're not wearing masks? This is a great question.

So, what's really cool about the vaccines
So, what's really cool about the vaccines

is pregnant women have been getting vaccines,
is pregnant women have been getting vaccines,

and pregnant people have been getting vaccines.
and pregnant people have been getting vaccines.

And we found now that the antibodies
And we found now that the antibodies

can actually pass on to the baby.
can actually pass on to the baby.

So similar to the other vaccines that we use,
So similar to the other vaccines that we use,

the infant will have antibody protection
the infant will have antibody protection

against the COVID for maybe up to six months.
against the COVID for maybe up to six months.

So for those babies whose moms are vaccinated,
So for those babies whose moms are vaccinated,

they're probably in pretty good shape.
they're probably in pretty good shape.

Once you get where the they lose the maternal immunity,
Once you get where the they lose the maternal immunity,

that protection that we give them,
that protection that we give them,

then that's where the baby's at risk.
then that's where the baby's at risk.

And that baby is at just as much risk
And that baby is at just as much risk

as the toddler or the older kid.
as the toddler or the older kid.

I don't think that babies have been spared through this.
I don't think that babies have been spared through this.

I do think that they have been sheltered more through this.
I do think that they have been sheltered more through this.

And now if people are more likely
And now if people are more likely

to be coming around each other,
to be coming around each other,

then it will be likely that babies,
then it will be likely that babies,

we will be starting to see the babies come in with COVID.
we will be starting to see the babies come in with COVID.

We do see some of them now.
We do see some of them now.

I will also say that we're starting to see
I will also say that we're starting to see

some of the cold viruses
some of the cold viruses

that we didn't see during the winter,
that we didn't see during the winter,

now starting to see them at this point of the year,
now starting to see them at this point of the year,

because people are starting to come back together.
because people are starting to come back together.

So the babies are not just going to be
So the babies are not just going to be

necessarily sick with COVID,
necessarily sick with COVID,

they may catch RSV or the cold virus rhinovirus
they may catch RSV or the cold virus rhinovirus

or any of these other flu, just the same.
or any of these other flu, just the same.

Great.
Great.

That actually makes me wonder about the flu in general,
That actually makes me wonder about the flu in general,

like as someone who is a specialist,
like as someone who is a specialist,

since we had very low flu cases because of the pandemic,
since we had very low flu cases because of the pandemic,

do you anticipate there being a rise in cases this year,
do you anticipate there being a rise in cases this year,

because as things get back to normal?
because as things get back to normal?

It's really interesting.
It's really interesting.

So in Australia, that's what happened.
So in Australia, that's what happened.

In the off season when people were getting back together,
In the off season when people were getting back together,

and during, their summer and our winter
and during, their summer and our winter

are at the same time.
are at the same time.

So they started to see the increases
So they started to see the increases

in the cases of these things during the off season.
in the cases of these things during the off season.

It is quite possible that we will also see that occur.
It is quite possible that we will also see that occur.

So an off season flu, basically a summer flu,
So an off season flu, basically a summer flu,

or that kind of thing that may occur.
or that kind of thing that may occur.

We have not seen it yet.
We have not seen it yet.

That was in western Australia where they had these problems.
That was in western Australia where they had these problems.

So it's possible that we will,
So it's possible that we will,

we hope that that doesn't happen.
we hope that that doesn't happen.

The other thing we should realize is that,
The other thing we should realize is that,

next winter we have a chance of a very difficult season.
next winter we have a chance of a very difficult season.

Particularly if we stop masking,
Particularly if we stop masking,

if we don't do this anymore, then
if we don't do this anymore, then

we're going to be at risk for all the rest of the viruses.
we're going to be at risk for all the rest of the viruses.

So, time will tell.
So, time will tell.

We actually like this because we've seen less of these cases
We actually like this because we've seen less of these cases

but we know this isn't forever.
but we know this isn't forever.

Right, absolutely.
Right, absolutely.

So talking about masks,
So talking about masks,

there's been a lot of questions
there's been a lot of questions

about guidance as it relates to wearing masks outdoors.
about guidance as it relates to wearing masks outdoors.

How necessary it is to wear masks
How necessary it is to wear masks

when we're walking on the street, or,
when we're walking on the street, or,

so I just wondered,
so I just wondered,

do you have any guidance for like,
do you have any guidance for like,

how people might want to make the decision themselves,
how people might want to make the decision themselves,

if they want to wear a mask when they're outside?
if they want to wear a mask when they're outside?

Well, I will say that, depends on if you have a mandate.
Well, I will say that, depends on if you have a mandate.

If there's a mandate like we have here,
If there's a mandate like we have here,

then you're supposed to wear your mask wherever you are.
then you're supposed to wear your mask wherever you are.

Let's say you're though somewhere else
Let's say you're though somewhere else

where you don't have to wear the mask,
where you don't have to wear the mask,

you have a choice in wearing the mask.
you have a choice in wearing the mask.

I think there's a lot that goes into that decision.
I think there's a lot that goes into that decision.

How comfortable do you know the people who you're with?
How comfortable do you know the people who you're with?

Do you know if they're vaccinated?
Do you know if they're vaccinated?

So some of these games, we're seeing these ball games,
So some of these games, we're seeing these ball games,

baseball games stadiums full of people,
baseball games stadiums full of people,

and you think, wow, how is this going to work?
and you think, wow, how is this going to work?

But I think, if you know that the people you're around
But I think, if you know that the people you're around

are relatively safe, you're in a kind of bubble of place
are relatively safe, you're in a kind of bubble of place

because you have all these vaccinated people,
because you have all these vaccinated people,

then it's probably okay.
then it's probably okay.

I think that the issue
I think that the issue

is that we tend to let our guard down again,
is that we tend to let our guard down again,

if we let our masks down.
if we let our masks down.

We might be starting to hug people,
We might be starting to hug people,

we might start to share these bottles,
we might start to share these bottles,

we might do these things.
we might do these things.

So I think if there's less risk,
So I think if there's less risk,

if you're just walking your dog,
if you're just walking your dog,

but if you're about to go meet somebody,
but if you're about to go meet somebody,

you really have to think of, have some pause
you really have to think of, have some pause

about having that mask down when you're outside,
about having that mask down when you're outside,

'cause you just don't know what they have at that point.
'cause you just don't know what they have at that point.

Right, thank you for that guidance.
Right, thank you for that guidance.

So I will certainly apply that myself.
So I will certainly apply that myself.

Well, we have to wrap it up,
Well, we have to wrap it up,

but thank you so much, Dr. Logan, for appearing with us
but thank you so much, Dr. Logan, for appearing with us

and talking to us today about kids in COVID,
and talking to us today about kids in COVID,

and it's been very enlightening,
and it's been very enlightening,

I'm sure everyone else got a lot out of it as well.
I'm sure everyone else got a lot out of it as well.

And please visit rush.edu/vaccine
And please visit rush.edu/vaccine

for any questions about vaccine,
for any questions about vaccine,

or rush.edu/COVID for our latest updates around COVID.
or rush.edu/COVID for our latest updates around COVID.

And please stay tuned for more great Facebook Lives
And please stay tuned for more great Facebook Lives

from Rush University Medical Center.
from Rush University Medical Center.

Thanks everyone.
Thanks everyone.