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NINA MAK: When the media covers pet cloning, it's often
NINA MAK: When the media covers pet cloning, it's often

fluff pieces and these warm, fuzzy pieces about, oh, look
fluff pieces and these warm, fuzzy pieces about, oh, look

how cute these animals are and isn't it cool
how cute these animals are and isn't it cool

that we could do this?
that we could do this?

And there's very little coverage, if any, of what it
And there's very little coverage, if any, of what it

really meant to clone that animal and what it took.
really meant to clone that animal and what it took.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: I think it more of reproduction.
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: I think it more of reproduction.

If we had created her, we'd have started from
If we had created her, we'd have started from

nothing and made her.
nothing and made her.

But we started with ova from other cats and cells from
But we started with ova from other cats and cells from

another cat and just put them together in a way that they
another cat and just put them together in a way that they

could reproduce.
could reproduce.

That's not vastly different than people
That's not vastly different than people

that arrange for mating.
that arrange for mating.

It's just that we threw in some technology.
It's just that we threw in some technology.

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DR. DUANE KRAEMER: I'm Duane Kraemer.
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: I'm Duane Kraemer.

I'm a professor at Texas A&M University.
I'm a professor at Texas A&M University.

I've been working in the area of embryo transfer cloning and
I've been working in the area of embryo transfer cloning and

genetic engineering.
genetic engineering.

My dream was to become a farmer.
My dream was to become a farmer.

And I went to the university intending to just get what I
And I went to the university intending to just get what I

needed to come back.
needed to come back.

And then I got bit by the research bug.
And then I got bit by the research bug.

My father was very disappointed that I didn't
My father was very disappointed that I didn't

come back to the farm.
come back to the farm.

My mother said, well, I knew you'd find something better.
My mother said, well, I knew you'd find something better.

And I didn't mean that it was better, it was just different.
And I didn't mean that it was better, it was just different.

Cloning, as it's most customarily practiced at the
Cloning, as it's most customarily practiced at the

present, involves the transfer of nuclei from cells and
present, involves the transfer of nuclei from cells and

transferring those cells into eggs where the nucleus has
transferring those cells into eggs where the nucleus has

been removed, and then the nucleus from the animal to be
been removed, and then the nucleus from the animal to be

cloned is put in its place.
cloned is put in its place.

If it's a mammal, those new embryos then have to be
If it's a mammal, those new embryos then have to be

transferred into recipient females for them
transferred into recipient females for them

to carry on to term.
to carry on to term.

And usually, those recipient animals nurse them and raise
And usually, those recipient animals nurse them and raise

them as well.
them as well.

This is the first of the deer to be cloned.
This is the first of the deer to be cloned.

This is Dewey.
This is Dewey.

Students named him after me.
Students named him after me.

I think it's because I insisted that he be allowed to
I think it's because I insisted that he be allowed to

be born natural birth.
be born natural birth.

And he survived.
And he survived.

I think that earned me that privilege, I guess.
I think that earned me that privilege, I guess.

NINA MAK: The truth is that cloning is highly experimental
NINA MAK: The truth is that cloning is highly experimental

and very problematic.
and very problematic.

And most of the time, it doesn't work.
And most of the time, it doesn't work.

Only a few clones have actually been born
Only a few clones have actually been born

successfully.
successfully.

And of the ones that have been, a good percentage
And of the ones that have been, a good percentage

actually end up dying within the first six months, because
actually end up dying within the first six months, because

they have some sort of complication, health
they have some sort of complication, health

abnormality, a physical deformity,
abnormality, a physical deformity,

something like that.
something like that.

You talk about using a very large number of animals to
You talk about using a very large number of animals to

even try to produce just one clone.
even try to produce just one clone.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: Some people just don't like anything
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: Some people just don't like anything

that's unnatural and think they can abide by that.
that's unnatural and think they can abide by that.

But of course, most of the things they do are unnatural.
But of course, most of the things they do are unnatural.

I think it has to do with the Hollywood version, to some
I think it has to do with the Hollywood version, to some

extent, of cloning.
extent, of cloning.

They have always pretty much made it a
They have always pretty much made it a

monster kind of activity.
monster kind of activity.

Well, I hope that there will be continued research to make
Well, I hope that there will be continued research to make

it more dependable.
it more dependable.

At present, about 25% of offspring have some type of
At present, about 25% of offspring have some type of

abnormality.
abnormality.

They're developmental abnormalities.
They're developmental abnormalities.

They're not mutations.
They're not mutations.

They don't get passed on to the next generation.
They don't get passed on to the next generation.

But they need special care.
But they need special care.

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DR. DUANE KRAEMER: These are microscopes we
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: These are microscopes we

use to find the eggs.
use to find the eggs.

We have to get the eggs out of ovaries.
We have to get the eggs out of ovaries.

It is simple after you learn how to do it.
It is simple after you learn how to do it.

But there are just many, many details
But there are just many, many details

that have to be followed.
that have to be followed.

And if you do one thing wrong, then the chain is broken and
And if you do one thing wrong, then the chain is broken and

you get nothing from it.
you get nothing from it.

Well, our team is working on a genetic engineering of
Well, our team is working on a genetic engineering of

livestock to produce animals that are resistant to disease.
livestock to produce animals that are resistant to disease.

This is the cloned bull that's resistant to brucellosis,
This is the cloned bull that's resistant to brucellosis,

which is a disease that causes abortion in cattle and
which is a disease that causes abortion in cattle and

undulant fever in humans.
undulant fever in humans.

The original bull was naturally resistant to it.
The original bull was naturally resistant to it.

His cells that were used for cloning him have been stored
His cells that were used for cloning him have been stored

for 15 years.
for 15 years.

His name is Bruce after brucellosis.
His name is Bruce after brucellosis.

The process of selective breeding to produce superior
The process of selective breeding to produce superior

individuals has been going on for many years, even using
individuals has been going on for many years, even using

natural breeding.
natural breeding.

And then embryo transfer and artificial insemination made
And then embryo transfer and artificial insemination made

that process more efficient, where you could get more
that process more efficient, where you could get more

offspring from the genetically valuable animals.
offspring from the genetically valuable animals.

If they're superior and can't reproduce by themselves, then
If they're superior and can't reproduce by themselves, then

the techniques such as cloning can produce offspring.
the techniques such as cloning can produce offspring.

Anything we do could be used incorrectly and wrongly.
Anything we do could be used incorrectly and wrongly.

And most things are by somebody somewhere, sometime.
And most things are by somebody somewhere, sometime.

GEORGE W. BUSH: Chinese scientists have derived stem
GEORGE W. BUSH: Chinese scientists have derived stem

cells from cloned embryos created by combining human DNA
cells from cloned embryos created by combining human DNA

and rabbit eggs.
and rabbit eggs.

Others have announced plans to produce cloned children,
Others have announced plans to produce cloned children,

despite the fact that laboratory cloning of animals
despite the fact that laboratory cloning of animals

has led to spontaneous abortions and terrible,
has led to spontaneous abortions and terrible,

terrible abnormalities.
terrible abnormalities.

Human cloning is deeply troubling to
Human cloning is deeply troubling to

me and to most Americans.
me and to most Americans.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: The issue of human cell storage is one
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: The issue of human cell storage is one

that we have not dealt with.
that we have not dealt with.

We don't have any--
We don't have any--

don't even have my cells stored here.
don't even have my cells stored here.

We have not worked at all with the human cells.
We have not worked at all with the human cells.

Anyone who could effectively culture and preserve cells
Anyone who could effectively culture and preserve cells

from animals would be able to do so with humans as well.
from animals would be able to do so with humans as well.

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DR. DUANE KRAEMER: I still get goose bumps
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: I still get goose bumps

when I see an embryo.
when I see an embryo.

It's just kind of thrilling to be able to see something as
It's just kind of thrilling to be able to see something as

simple as a little embryo that you know can develop into
simple as a little embryo that you know can develop into

something as complex as a complete individual.
something as complex as a complete individual.

CC was, I think, a special cat, because she was the first
CC was, I think, a special cat, because she was the first

of the pets to be cloned.
of the pets to be cloned.

It's not a new creation.
It's not a new creation.

We're just helping with reproduction.
We're just helping with reproduction.

Cats had more to do with it than we did.
Cats had more to do with it than we did.

It was their eggs that made it possible and the recipient
It was their eggs that made it possible and the recipient

that made it possible.
that made it possible.

I'm pleased with the result and pleased to have been a
I'm pleased with the result and pleased to have been a

part of it.
part of it.

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SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Come on over and meet those kitties.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Come on over and meet those kitties.

-Yeah.
-Yeah.

SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Yeah, come on over.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Yeah, come on over.

-Grazie.
-Grazie.

SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Right over here's their house.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Right over here's their house.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: She's up in that window.
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: She's up in that window.

SHIRLEY KRAEMER: She's up in that window.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: She's up in that window.

And that's her favorite place.
And that's her favorite place.

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SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Hi, CC.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Hi, CC.

Come on.
Come on.

Say hello, CC.
Say hello, CC.

Hi, Cece, how you doing?
Hi, Cece, how you doing?

How you doing, CC?
How you doing, CC?

I worried when CC was expecting.
I worried when CC was expecting.

I thought, oh, what if she's born with two children without
I thought, oh, what if she's born with two children without

ears and one without a tail?
ears and one without a tail?

I'm going to have to say, oh, this is not good.
I'm going to have to say, oh, this is not good.

But she came through for us.
But she came through for us.

She came through.
She came through.

CC came through.
CC came through.

CC's a good kitty.
CC's a good kitty.

CC's a good kitty.
CC's a good kitty.

She said, I know, I know.
She said, I know, I know.

She knew exactly what to do.
She knew exactly what to do.

I really worried about that, because I thought, I'm going
I really worried about that, because I thought, I'm going

to have to buy little bottles and feed each kitten.
to have to buy little bottles and feed each kitten.

No, I didn't have to.
No, I didn't have to.

She was a wonderful mother.
She was a wonderful mother.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: It's in the genes.
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: It's in the genes.

SHIRLEY KRAEMER: It's in the genes.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: It's in the genes.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: Different species have different
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: Different species have different

instincts and behaviors.
instincts and behaviors.

That's one thing about the clones.
That's one thing about the clones.

They all act like their own species.
They all act like their own species.

SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Species, yeah.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: Species, yeah.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: It's a privilege to have been in a
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: It's a privilege to have been in a

situation where we could do this and also to be able to
situation where we could do this and also to be able to

enjoy her is an added privilege.
enjoy her is an added privilege.

If people want to use their resources to get a genetic
If people want to use their resources to get a genetic

copy of their original pet, I don't see
copy of their original pet, I don't see

anything wrong with that.
anything wrong with that.

NINA MAK: There's a life that gets lived-- a beginning,
NINA MAK: There's a life that gets lived-- a beginning,

middle, and an end.
middle, and an end.

And it's hard to deal with the end.
And it's hard to deal with the end.

But that's part of life.
But that's part of life.

And trying to prevent that from being a part of life with
And trying to prevent that from being a part of life with

this idea that you could somehow have the same animal
this idea that you could somehow have the same animal

your whole life--
your whole life--

these are still animals, and they still very much matter.
these are still animals, and they still very much matter.

And to treat them like objects, it's not really
And to treat them like objects, it's not really

something that I find acceptable.
something that I find acceptable.

DR. DUANE KRAEMER: They say, accusatory, you're playing
DR. DUANE KRAEMER: They say, accusatory, you're playing

God, creating something.
God, creating something.

No more than anybody else is creating.
No more than anybody else is creating.

Besides, I'm doing it to serve God, not to take his place.
Besides, I'm doing it to serve God, not to take his place.

And I'm not playing.
And I'm not playing.

This is my vocation--
This is my vocation--

work, but really good work.
work, but really good work.

SHIRLEY KRAEMER: There you go, CC.
SHIRLEY KRAEMER: There you go, CC.

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