The Tuileries is the only commission we ever fulfilled.
The Tuileries is the only commission we ever fulfilled.

In fact, we've been offered,
In fact, we've been offered,

not so much recently but in the early days we were always
not so much recently but in the early days we were always

asked if we do something for a particular project or something.
asked if we do something for a particular project or something.

We always said, "We don't want to go to the studio
We always said, "We don't want to go to the studio

with some other information in our head.
with some other information in our head.

We want to go empty headed, blank."
We want to go empty headed, blank."

“Zonked,” we say. With the eyes closed...
“Zonked,” we say. With the eyes closed...

and closing the ears to be– nothing and then we can...
and closing the ears to be– nothing and then we can...

fall into some truth of some kind, hopefully.
fall into some truth of some kind, hopefully.

We never wanted to...
We never wanted to...

We never wanted to go up to the studio
We never wanted to go up to the studio

with the idea that we have to satisfy somebody.
with the idea that we have to satisfy somebody.

But we did it for Art & Project as they were some of the first
But we did it for Art & Project as they were some of the first

people to be kindly to us.
people to be kindly to us.

We were introduced to Art & Project by the late artist Ger van Elk
We were introduced to Art & Project by the late artist Ger van Elk

who wanted us to join his Dutch gallery.
who wanted us to join his Dutch gallery.

He felt it would be good for him as well and good for us.
He felt it would be good for him as well and good for us.

And we became very fond of Ger and Adriaan, I recalled.
And we became very fond of Ger and Adriaan, I recalled.

Adriaan died quite recently
Adriaan died quite recently

and they wanted something that they would keep for themselves
and they wanted something that they would keep for themselves

and we said we would do The Tuileries.
and we said we would do The Tuileries.

And it's very interesting because then...
And it's very interesting because then...

at that time, we used to have a lot of shows in Paris.
at that time, we used to have a lot of shows in Paris.

with Ileana Sonnabend
with Ileana Sonnabend

and the friends of... what do you call...
and the friends of... what do you call...

We had a group of young people taking us around
We had a group of young people taking us around

and we ended up in the Tuileries.
and we ended up in the Tuileries.

And at that time, the Tuileries was a kind of sex playground.
And at that time, the Tuileries was a kind of sex playground.

Sex playground hiding in the bushes or something.
Sex playground hiding in the bushes or something.

So it became a new way
So it became a new way

of dealing with nature that it could have a bit of sexual element.
of dealing with nature that it could have a bit of sexual element.

The trees are not only trees,
The trees are not only trees,

it could be something behind the trees.
it could be something behind the trees.

So to make up...
So to make up...

The images in The Tuileries are not of the Tuileries.
The images in The Tuileries are not of the Tuileries.

We could've gone to Paris and done that
We could've gone to Paris and done that

but we didn't need to do that.
but we didn't need to do that.

It just had to be the suggestion of the sexuality
It just had to be the suggestion of the sexuality

combined with nature.
combined with nature.

We were quite excited by that.
We were quite excited by that.

And the chairs are based on, what do you call?
And the chairs are based on, what do you call?

In 1970, we had two green chairs
In 1970, we had two green chairs

in the ground floor of number 12 Fournier Street.
in the ground floor of number 12 Fournier Street.

We only had the ground floor.
We only had the ground floor.

It had two rooms. It had the kitchen and one room.
It had two rooms. It had the kitchen and one room.

And, for ten years all the art was done there,
And, for ten years all the art was done there,

in the kitchen, it was extraordinary.
in the kitchen, it was extraordinary.

And only two chairs.
And only two chairs.

All of the famous pieces, like the Red Mornings,
All of the famous pieces, like the Red Mornings,

or Cherry Blossom, all were done in the kitchen.
or Cherry Blossom, all were done in the kitchen.

And we had these two green chairs and we asked John
And we had these two green chairs and we asked John

if he could copy the two green chairs.
if he could copy the two green chairs.

And then we put this jungle, what do you call?
And then we put this jungle, what do you call?

-The Tuileries? -On top of it.
-The Tuileries? -On top of it.

It was very exciting. There were a pair of, I suppose they were...
It was very exciting. There were a pair of, I suppose they were...

some prototypes of chairs that never actually got produced.
some prototypes of chairs that never actually got produced.

And we liked them, because they were similar but different.
And we liked them, because they were similar but different.

Whenever we had a visitor we always used to say,
Whenever we had a visitor we always used to say,

"It's a male and female pair of chairs. Which is which?"
"It's a male and female pair of chairs. Which is which?"

And half the world says, that's the man, and the other half says...
And half the world says, that's the man, and the other half says...

We realized that even the furniture had that very strong sexual element.
We realized that even the furniture had that very strong sexual element.

We were fascinated by that.
We were fascinated by that.

Yeah, sexual...
Yeah, sexual...

To bring in sexuality into the art...
To bring in sexuality into the art...

was quite unusual as well at that time.
was quite unusual as well at that time.

It was one of the many taboos. Color was taboo.
It was one of the many taboos. Color was taboo.

Sentiment was taboo.
Sentiment was taboo.

-Sexuality was taboo. -Being unhappy was taboo.
-Sexuality was taboo. -Being unhappy was taboo.

-And sexuality was totally... -Sexuality was totally taboo.
-And sexuality was totally... -Sexuality was totally taboo.

Using your hands was taboo.
Using your hands was taboo.

You talk about being in a generation
You talk about being in a generation

that was largely conceptual and minimal
that was largely conceptual and minimal

in post-studio, and you were very much an outpost-studio.
in post-studio, and you were very much an outpost-studio.

Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, that's true.

And we were very lucky that we were poor enough not to have a studio.
And we were very lucky that we were poor enough not to have a studio.

It didn't hurt us at all.
It didn't hurt us at all.

It was very good because it became abstract in some global way.
It was very good because it became abstract in some global way.

We didn't have a studio to go back into it and start stretching.
We didn't have a studio to go back into it and start stretching.

We were able... We only had to...
We were able... We only had to...

promoting our feelings through other ways of thinking
promoting our feelings through other ways of thinking

and that's why we started to become more involved
and that's why we started to become more involved

in the power of the negative.
in the power of the negative.

We saw that through that power
We saw that through that power

we could make our pictures or sculptures
we could make our pictures or sculptures

much more powerful, much more direct,
much more powerful, much more direct,

and much more real.
and much more real.

We felt that everything that has to do with artistic hand,
We felt that everything that has to do with artistic hand,

the artistic hand, it tried to take away all of that...
the artistic hand, it tried to take away all of that...

That you end up in front of powerful imagery.
That you end up in front of powerful imagery.

That's why we gave up charcoal-on-paper sculptures
That's why we gave up charcoal-on-paper sculptures

because we became...
because we became...

-Disillusioned. -We became very disillusioned with...
-Disillusioned. -We became very disillusioned with...

the reality that people came to the charcoal-on-paper sculptures
the reality that people came to the charcoal-on-paper sculptures

and admired their form and their texture.
and admired their form and their texture.

And almost the sound they made, their crinkliness.
And almost the sound they made, their crinkliness.

And the edges, they liked the edges and we thought,
And the edges, they liked the edges and we thought,

"How awful. They're not listening to us.
"How awful. They're not listening to us.

We're not reaching, speaking to them."
We're not reaching, speaking to them."

We are not able to get our message across
We are not able to get our message across

so let's try something different, we tried different ways.
so let's try something different, we tried different ways.

Like even videos, we tried videos.
Like even videos, we tried videos.

The first video sculpture that we saw
The first video sculpture that we saw

that's quite a good way of doing it
that's quite a good way of doing it

and we only did three because at that time we didn't want to make our films
and we only did three because at that time we didn't want to make our films

because we did it with Gerry Schum,
because we did it with Gerry Schum,

from Gallery Schum in Dusseldorf at that time: 1971, '72, '73.
from Gallery Schum in Dusseldorf at that time: 1971, '72, '73.

But after that, in 1980,
But after that, in 1980,

we did write an extraordinary script
we did write an extraordinary script

of the world of Gilbert & George.
of the world of Gilbert & George.

And that we did storyboard and every shot was designed by us
And that we did storyboard and every shot was designed by us

and we think that it's still one of the best things we ever did.
and we think that it's still one of the best things we ever did.