I think a lot about that. I got into it by a pretty circuitous
I think a lot about that. I got into it by a pretty circuitous

route. I did a BA in physics, and I migrated to geography
route. I did a BA in physics, and I migrated to geography

because I had an opportunity to do a PhD study in caves and I
because I had an opportunity to do a PhD study in caves and I

was interested in caves at the time. And then when I landed in
was interested in caves at the time. And then when I landed in

geography, I discovered there were things going on in
geography, I discovered there were things going on in

geography that I liked. And so I stayed.
geography that I liked. And so I stayed.

I remember David Semanat, the first time I walked into his
I remember David Semanat, the first time I walked into his

office and he said, "Hello, I understand you're lazy." And of
office and he said, "Hello, I understand you're lazy." And of

course what he was doing was establishing a sort of
course what he was doing was establishing a sort of

management style that he knew would get the best out of me.
management style that he knew would get the best out of me.

But it was, I think, it's not exactly advice, but it was a
But it was, I think, it's not exactly advice, but it was a

very, it stayed with me very much.
very, it stayed with me very much.

I'd have to say making maps, and trying to make the maps correct.
I'd have to say making maps, and trying to make the maps correct.

So scaled representations of the Earth's surface, and
So scaled representations of the Earth's surface, and

experimenting with how to do that. And I remember spending a
experimenting with how to do that. And I remember spending a

lot of time doing that. And questions like, what do you
lot of time doing that. And questions like, what do you

choose to put on the map, and why is that important, and why
choose to put on the map, and why is that important, and why

did you want to record that?
did you want to record that?

The freedom to explore in virtually any direction I like.
The freedom to explore in virtually any direction I like.

And the freedom to always find the most fundamental and
And the freedom to always find the most fundamental and

intellectually compelling aspects of a problem. Rather
intellectually compelling aspects of a problem. Rather

than having to solve it, being able to learn from the, from the
than having to solve it, being able to learn from the, from the

process of solving. And the freedom to solve problems
process of solving. And the freedom to solve problems

mathematically and get the satisfaction from, from being
mathematically and get the satisfaction from, from being

able to do so. These are the things I really enjoy, I think.
able to do so. These are the things I really enjoy, I think.

I think an openness to communication. It's very easy in
I think an openness to communication. It's very easy in

my field, it's very easy because everyone understands what a map
my field, it's very easy because everyone understands what a map

is. And so talking about maps will always resonate with a lot
is. And so talking about maps will always resonate with a lot

of people. I think it would be much more difficult to reach a
of people. I think it would be much more difficult to reach a

broader audience if you were engaged in some very abstract
broader audience if you were engaged in some very abstract

concept that was hard to explain to the general public. And I
concept that was hard to explain to the general public. And I

think that ability is fundamentally what makes and
think that ability is fundamentally what makes and

breaks a scientist. If you are sequestered in your own narrow
breaks a scientist. If you are sequestered in your own narrow

field and never reach out, then ultimately you,
field and never reach out, then ultimately you,

I think you've failed.
I think you've failed.

That's easy, because this field is something society uses all
That's easy, because this field is something society uses all

the time. So society now has the ability to navigate, to not get
the time. So society now has the ability to navigate, to not get

lost, to find their way across the landscape reliably and
lost, to find their way across the landscape reliably and

safely. These are very major benefits. And then a whole list
safely. These are very major benefits. And then a whole list

of other benefits that come from mapping and remote sensing, and
of other benefits that come from mapping and remote sensing, and

the kind of information we now have about the world.
the kind of information we now have about the world.

I think I've, at various points in my career, I've been very
I think I've, at various points in my career, I've been very

attached to very, to specific scientists. One of them is the
attached to very, to specific scientists. One of them is the

physicist, Eddington, who flourished in the periods from
physicist, Eddington, who flourished in the periods from

1910 to 1930, was very much involved in the empirical
1910 to 1930, was very much involved in the empirical

verification of general relativity. And I, I spent a lot
verification of general relativity. And I, I spent a lot

of time with his work because as- this is when I was an
of time with his work because as- this is when I was an

undergraduate- because I admired his search for the simple. One
undergraduate- because I admired his search for the simple. One

of the things he believed, that later turned out to be wrong,
of the things he believed, that later turned out to be wrong,

was that some of the fundamental constants of physics were whole
was that some of the fundamental constants of physics were whole

numbers. For example, the ratio of the mass of the proton to the
numbers. For example, the ratio of the mass of the proton to the

mass of the electron, I think, if I remember right. He
mass of the electron, I think, if I remember right. He

hypothesized that this was a whole number, which would
hypothesized that this was a whole number, which would

reflect, of course, some symmetry in the universe.
reflect, of course, some symmetry in the universe.

And he ultimately was proved wrong when it became possible to
And he ultimately was proved wrong when it became possible to

measure those numbers more accurately. But at his time it
measure those numbers more accurately. But at his time it

was still possible to believe they were whole numbers.
was still possible to believe they were whole numbers.

I think most people take the kind of information that we deal
I think most people take the kind of information that we deal

with, for granted. So they, they accept that you can zoom down in
with, for granted. So they, they accept that you can zoom down in

Google Earth and see individual houses and individual cars and
Google Earth and see individual houses and individual cars and

individual people. And they think this is fine. And they
individual people. And they think this is fine. And they

will use Google arth- or Google Earth to determine the positions
will use Google arth- or Google Earth to determine the positions

of those features in latitude and longitude. And what will
of those features in latitude and longitude. And what will

surprise them is that we are in fact extremely uncertain
surprise them is that we are in fact extremely uncertain

about where exactly things are on the earth's surface. And in
about where exactly things are on the earth's surface. And in

part this is because our measurement systems are
part this is because our measurement systems are

limited. In part it's because the earth keeps moving and
limited. In part it's because the earth keeps moving and

changing its shape and wobbling about its axis. And in part
changing its shape and wobbling about its axis. And in part

because some parts of the world continue moving. So Australia is
because some parts of the world continue moving. So Australia is

moving steadily north at quite a, quite a substantial clip. And
moving steadily north at quite a, quite a substantial clip. And

these things, I think, surprise people. They're used to a world
these things, I think, surprise people. They're used to a world

which is perfectly rigid and perfectly ordered and perfectly
which is perfectly rigid and perfectly ordered and perfectly

measurable. And so it's a surprise when, to learn
measurable. And so it's a surprise when, to learn

that it's not.
that it's not.

My laptop. It's got to be. These days it's got to
My laptop. It's got to be. These days it's got to

be something digital.
be something digital.

I don't. So I usually don't listen to music in the car, in
I don't. So I usually don't listen to music in the car, in

part because I'm a geographer and I'm far more interested in
part because I'm a geographer and I'm far more interested in

what the, what I'm driving through. I enjoy driving and I
what the, what I'm driving through. I enjoy driving and I

like to concentrate on it. In the lab, music will be
like to concentrate on it. In the lab, music will be

distracting, and it's multitasking,
distracting, and it's multitasking,

and I can't do that.
and I can't do that.