Russia says its forces have downed 11
drones launched by Ukraine over the
region of rostoff keev is increasingly
relying on drones in its fight against
Russia to make up for its lack of
artillery power the unmanned aircraft
are effective at destroying Russian
defensive positions but military
analysts warn drones alone won't be
enough to win the
war Ukrainian soldiers are instructed in
how to operate drones on the battlefield
an increasingly valuable skill in the
nation's defense against
Russia in the absence of expensive
ammunition drones which can cost just a
few hundred EUR a piece have played a
crucial role in Ukraine's ongoing
defense firstperson view devices allow
their pilots to see live images of the
ground as if they were on board and
those armed with explosives can attack
enemy positions from kilometers
away there are two important points uh
concer drones for Ukraine so they are
relatively cheap they are destroying uh
very expensive Hardware on the Russian
side and um the second is Ukraine is
trying to compensate for uh the shortage
of uh Conventional Weapons deliveries
from the West Ukrainian officials
estimate that as many as 120,000 drones
are acquired each month in order to
sustain their defense in its 2024 budget
Kiev set aside more than 1.1 billion
euros for manufacturing drones while
allies such as the United Kingdom and
France ascending them in their
thousands yet drones do have their
drawbacks it's estimated that less than
a third find their target while they're
also quick to jam while in
operation their nimbleness also means
they can only carry up to a few kilogram
of explosives at a time with even large
fleets unable to match the potency of
artillery
fire
Ukraine is not able to stop the Russian
uh Invasion with drones alone so it is
absolutely impossible so drones can
compensate to a certain degree but they
cannot stop the Russian army and with
drones alone Ukraine cannot Liberate the
occupied territories once more Russia
has upped its own drone usage in
response to Ukraine's relative success
with the
technology so Russia par has gone to its
allies in Iran and got these very cheap
low Tech drones that it flies over
really in a kind of mass formation to
hit civilian targets so in any War you
need a mix of different weapon systems
because if you rely on one particular
weapon system your opponents will just
work out how to counter that weapon
system in reality Ukraine needs both and
all of these and more types of
weapons while modern technology in the
use of drones has served Ukraine well
thus far traditional Weaponry will be
crucial in the stages to
come we can cross to Paris now and bring
in orria franka from the European
Council on Foreign Relations welcome
back to DW so Ukraine needs 120,000
drones a month we heard there just to
keep up its defenses that's an annual
cost of over a billion euros I but only
a slice of overall funding how much
would ke have to boost that to make more
of an
impact I don't think you can really kind
of put an exact number on this um drones
have shown to be very effective and very
useful on the other hand I think it's
important to remember that sometimes
drones are also being used because other
means are not available so ukrainians
still lack artillery munition um
anti-tank weapons all these kinds of
things and they use drones for these
kinds of roles but often that's not the
best choice so yes drones are important
and more drones are better but you know
the high loss rates and just the high
number that are being used also points
to gaps in in other areas I was also
reading about the high loss rate but
still drones of being credited with up
to 85% of Destruction to Russian
positions I believe that sounds like a
success story maybe not a GameChanger
but sure surely a
success yes drones have been been
incredibly successful now the 85% number
I wouldn't exactly put my hand on the
fire for this um but it is a high number
I mean again sometimes drones are being
used because other things are not
available so that also explains the the
high rate of um of Destruction by drones
but definitely I mean what drones can
give you is a constant kind of overview
and surveillance and the ability to
strike at the right time the ability to
strike small targets so there are a lot
of kind of advantages that that drones
have but we shouldn't forget that with
the jamming becoming much better I mean
electronic warfare especially by the
Russians drones also lose their their um
usefulness quite quickly um therefore I
wouldn't put all eggs in one basket and
basically primarily or uniquely look at
drones the the topic of jamming being
why so many people here at least in
Germany have been talking about tourist
uh missiles but what about Maritime
drones they've had a a high success rate
as
well
absolutely and this is a really
interesting story so Ukraine I mean
Ukraine in general has become this
really important drone manufacturer
designer developer and user of course
and especially in the maritime um realm
they are really I mean leading uh
because there have been few if any
really military confrontations using
Maritime or Naval drones and Ukraine has
used several Naval drones extremely
successfully against Russian warships
that cost you know hundreds and thousand
times more more than the drones that
they use so this is definitely an area
to watch and that can have an impact I
mean you know Russia losing several um
uh ships to a country that basically
does doesn't have a real Navy um that's
that's quite embarrassing and and also
militarily um you know useful and let's
talk about the competition Russian
drones are destroying more of Ukraine's
best weapons so who has the better
drones Ukraine or
Russia difficult to say because there's
a full range of drones being used
basically on both sides and it's not
that you need one system that is better
than the other it's always a kind of cat
and mouse game between drones and
counter drone systems new systems are
being developed um Russia has a few
systems that are quite um useful for
their purposes so the Iranian shahad 136
not a particularly sophisticated system
even a system that is often intercepted
by Ukrainian air defenses but still
because I have so many of them and just
sent them you know on Russian uh sorry
on Ukrainian towns they they have an
impact the lens at kamikaza drone that
Russia has developed um that is
something that does cause headaches to
the ukrainians because they're really
difficult to intercept so that is so to
speak a good system militarily speaking
of course but I'd say
overall turn I am Say by Ukraine done by
Russia at this point okay thanks uh for
your insights and your time or franka
from the Europe European Council on
Foreign
Relations well for more on drones
weekend talk to Steven Wright he's a
professor of aircraft systems at tampara
University in Finland thanks for being
with us Professor how much of an impact
would you say drones have had on the
course of this
War I think that they've been very
successful at doing um remarkable things
changing the total Dynamic of a war is
my person overview
here drones of course have their
limitations we saw that in the report
just there are are some people expecting
too much of drones in Warfare do you
think no not at all and looking back at
the history of these things it's really
remarkable uh one of the earliest
examples came from the second world war
sorry first world war 1918 America
invented the sper bug which was a
pilotless flying
torpedo and then as history has advanced
and the technology has caught up with it
we've then seen further applications
most people um aren't aware of this but
1941 the Americans flew a b uh 17 bomber
from Hawaii and landed it 15 hours later
in California which just gives you an
idea of how much technology and
capability there has been over the years
and they use is only going to increase
and their potency likewise um
demonstrates how this new form of
technology is a complete GameChanger in
the bigger
picture drone production of course is
being wrapped up in different countries
uh how much of you know who who has an
advantage in this particular conflict
this war between Russia and Ukraine
because sourcing drones has become
really really
important yeah you're right there and
traditionally that um uh the the ultra
lowc cost drones uh have been
manufactured quite exclusively in China
obviously China's not necessarily
aligned with the um the forces of the
Ukraine uh the ukrainians so therefore
other countries that support the
ukrainians such as Australia they've
developed over number of years uh Ultra
lowcost drones themselves lowcost being
Within under
$10,000 um they've uh deployed and
they're selling and supplying for
instance cardboard based drones to the
Ukrainian Army that are um something of
the region of about
$2,000 so this gives you an idea if one
country is not able to U provide and
sell a whole number of other nations
that support Ukraine are more than happy
to support this professor thank you very
much for speaking with us that was
Steven Wright professor at temper
University in Finland
thank
you