hello listeners and hello video viewers
if you are watching this on youtube
hello everybody today on the podcast i'm
talking to michael lavers who uh wait a
minute lavers isn't it lavers yeah
everyone says lavas don't worry though
okay
let me try that again today on the
podcast i'm talking to michael lavers
who is an english teacher from cornwall
in the southwest of england hello
michael hello thank you for having me
very excited it's it's a pleasure how
are you today yeah good good good um
sleepy eyes but i feel great yeah it's a
morning recording for us so we're still
kind of like oh half asleep
um so i'll continue my little
introduction here listeners viewers
michael also has a podcast for learners
of english it's called the level up
english podcast you might want to check
it out if you haven't already done so
it's available wherever you get your
podcasts and there's a youtube channel
as well the level up english podcast
and as well as being an english teacher
michael is also a language learner
himself and in his podcast episodes he
often talks with guests about
experiences of learning other languages
including those embarrassing or awkward
moments that happen when you feel shy or
you make mistakes also michael has
described himself as a socially awkward
person who lacks a certain amount of
confidence in himself is that a fair
statement michael
i would say so definitely i mean
apparent apparently other people don't
always see that but at least to my mind
it's very true yeah i feel very awkward
all the time
we should probably define the word
awkward because this is one of those
words that we do use a lot
but people i
notice don't often know what it is so
awkward essentially means embarrassing
and uncomfortable and it relates to
feeling shy and feeling not very at ease
especially in social situations so you
can be an awkward person and you can
feel awkward uh we also have awkward
situations situations that make you feel
a bit uncomfortable and embarrassed
um typically sort of social situations
you know if you're not totally
comfortable and at ease you're probably
going to feel awkward you're going to
find social situations to be awkward so
that's the word awkward a-w-k-w-a-r-d
so in fact michael has said that one of
the reasons michael you have said this
one of the reasons that you started your
podcast was to try to gain some
confidence by going out of your comfort
zone
so
this is what i would i thought that i
would ask you about michael your
language learning experiences and those
awkward and embarrassing moments and
then i thought that we could chat a bit
about social awkwardness and whether
this is a uniquely british thing i don't
think it is uniquely british but it
certainly seems to be something that um
british people experience a lot so we'll
talk about british awkwardness and we're
going to go into some specific examples
of how this so-called british
awkwardness manifests itself so that's
the plan
so um i should also say just before we
start there are guys working on the roof
just outside my window so there might be
some noises i hope it doesn't disturb
things too much
so michael yes now when you interviewed
me
on your podcast you asked me about my
language learning experiences and about
those awkward and embarrassing moments
i've had so this time i thought i would
turn the tables and sort of ask you the
same kinds of questions you often ask
your guests so my first question
actually is about language learning so
um how many other languages do you speak
or how many other languages are you
attempting to learn at this point
at the moment i'm kind of attempting to
learn three languages or different
levels of um
focus i guess so my main one has always
been japanese
i just find it the most fun that's
really the only reason why
i'm also learning chinese a little bit
less effort for chinese and more
recently i started learning cornish
which is the
local celtic language of where i'm from
um and that's like
five minutes a day like really really
minimal but it's just interesting to
learn a bit more about that
cornish is fascinating i mean i'd love
to to talk more about that too
maybe we can come on to that in a moment
but um
so when you are learning um your
languages let's say uh japanese you said
it's mainly for fun
um what level are you would you say at
this point somewhere intermediate i
guess i can have like conversations on
most topics just not
you know with hesitation and not not
super fluent so i've been at that kind
of level for probably years at this
point
okay
so what kind of routines do you use what
are your specific language learning
routines if you have any
yeah yeah i i focus a lot on routine
because i always think that's like the
one of the big things that people
struggle with like i think most people
know
roughly how to learn a language it's
just kind of getting that routine and
the habit in place
so i think that's one of my strengths is
that routine so
i think it should change as you
develop in your language ability and as
you get to a higher level you should
adapt it so at the moment it's quite
simple really i do
a couple sessions of language exchange
or have a lesson online every week
just for conversation practice so it's
not really a lesson it's just talking
practice
with maybe some corrections and things
like that
um
[Music]
every day i'll do a little bit of
reading a little bit of listening
[Music]
i try to do writing but i can't i don't
always have the time to be honest but
basically just those simple skills like
reading writing listening and talking so
cover those main skills and i don't
bother too much with like grammar or
textbooks these days it's just um
trying to use the language as much as i
can really
how do you actually collect vocab record
it how do you deal with grammar
um
for vocab i tend to just
collect from
what i'm doing so if i have a
conversation
and there's a new word i will
use that word and write some example
sentences maybe use dictionary to help
me um i might
chuck that into anki like the flashcard
software so i will study these sentences
in anki um the full sentence is not just
the single words
and yes same with like reading if i'm
reading a blog post i might come across
some new words
um i don't
tend to
i don't have the attitude about learning
every word you know yeah i think you
shouldn't so i'm only learning the words
that are kind of relevant to the topics
i'm interested in
um
but yeah i'm not too worried like i kind
of have faith that
i don't have to record i don't have to
write everything down if i keep studying
if i keep
um practicing
the words will keep repeating themselves
naturally and they'll sink in eventually
that's that's my hope anyway
yeah i think it's a really good way of
picking up language is just yeah just
connecting with the language listening
to it and reading it a lot and having
conversations and these things just come
up
and you know if you're studying let's
say you're trying to expand your
vocabulary you do have to think
i need to learn the lang the vocab that
people actually use
and it can be hard to find that you know
if you are used to using let's say
traditional studying methods where you
learn vocab as it's presented to you by
materials or whatever or even word lists
and things there's no way of judging
like
to what extent people actually use those
things and how they use them as well the
sort of you tend to find certain words
are used in negative sentences or with
certain types of attitude so yeah just
sort of just listening and reading and
paying attention is often the the best
way um
okay and and and how about grammar do
you actively study grammar in japanese
no i really don't um
i feel for the first it's quite a long
story but i won't go into it really but
the first few years
i was so shy at this point i didn't
really do any speaking so instead i was
just doing completely
like solely grammar study and and
writing all that kind of stuff so in a
sense i feel like i'm making up for that
time now and not doing any more grammar
because i feel like i've got a good
handle on that for the most part
but when i do find
you know when i'm talking to someone i
hear like a new
structure oh what does that mean i might
google it and realize it is like a new
grammar structure and in that case i
will
you know do some practice sentences
using that grammar and maybe i will try
to use it in my next language lesson
but i don't really
spend too much time studying only if it
comes up and it's
you know new for me at that moment but i
don't go out of my way to look for new
grammar
did you find japanese grammar and
english grammar like radically different
do you find that your japanese is
heavily influenced by english
i don't think so i mean this is in my
opinion this is the easy easier thing
about japanese because it's so different
from english
i've never had the problem where i'm
translating
um
whereas i think if you're learning like
spanish or french
probably it's easier to translate in
your head like english to french
but with japanese it it's just so
cumbersome to do that it doesn't make
sense so it's almost easier to just
switch your mind over to the new like
thinking in japanese as well
so yeah it's totally different grammar
wise to english which is a nice
challenge do you feel like the different
structure because in japanese you know
just in case any listeners don't know i
mean i'm not i'm not i don't know that
much but i used to speak a bit
that you have um
what is it the verb basically comes at
the end you've got subject object verb
um so
i mean give us an example if you will
just a simple sentence of like
yeah
i eat i eat pizza every day or something
like that if you would
put me on the spot now so
mainichi
pisaur
like right
everyday
pizza eat
right and it's interesting you don't say
every uh i there's no
it's not there's no actual subject
mentioned it's just everyday pizza eat
and yeah the subject's like implied
isn't it so you don't yeah
unless there's some uncertainty as to
who
you're talking about you wouldn't say i
cause it kind of feels a bit like too
much oh me me me i'm so important i'm
same with you like if i say
you know
how are you and i use the way you it's a
bit too much like
in your face like it's like i'm pointing
right in your face yeah too direct yeah
yeah yeah
so so these these sort of pronouns or
whatever are often just removed
completely and it's just context that
helps you work out who is being referred
to yeah and that's exactly why
translating is so difficult because if
you just translate literally it just
sounds ridiculous it sounds rude it
sounds weird
it's fun yeah very interesting i also
love in japanese the way you can just uh
you make a question just by adding a
little thing at the end
so it's you know what what is it it's
like uh you know pizza
uh
skides skideska
it's a bit like saying so uh pizza like
question
[Laughter]
yeah it's so easy because i know in
english it's such a nightmare isn't it
you've got to invert everything swap
words around
and then chinese and japanese it's
similar you just add a sound to the end
and it's a question it's great it's
wonderful isn't it yeah yeah because you
know in our in our classes when we're
teaching elementary students it's like i
like pizza do you like pizza
whoa what do you not you and do what the
hell's do why is this whereas in
japanese it's just like i like pizza you
like pizza question
yeah how wonderful is that
i wish all languages were like that and
then you've got like the horrible
indirect like i was wondering whether
you liked pizza and
right this doesn't really exist in
japanese as far as i know how do they do
that then because if because they do
i'm asking you tricky questions maybe
about japanese now because i know that
there are different maybe different
cases that are used when you're
referring to like you know
someone who you should show respect to
like an older person and stuff like that
i think that there are different ways i
don't mean to test you on your japanese
yes it's really gonna be revealed here i
i think i mean i never use this really
super formal language because i speak to
people
on like a friend level i never speak to
people like super formally so i'm not so
familiar with it but i think it's just
again very simple like a lot of the time
you put a o sound before a word
like
you know if you want someone to reply
you might say like i don't know henji
wanna guys
reply but maybe
polite ways like ohenji
i i don't know if they say that but that
would be one example it just makes it
more polite and it's much easier than
english where you have to add all these
extra words i think yeah we end up being
indirect in it and uh we do all these
kinds of uh what do you call it
inversions as you said yes
um yeah
okay uh one more question about japanese
what's the most difficult thing uh
as an english person
uh about learning japanese in in the
language would you say hmm
most people would say the characters i
never found that so difficult because
for me it was so fun to like learn all
these new characters
and i i've always said if you find it
fun it's not hard because
yeah if it's fun it's just easier to
pick up in my in my experience by
characters you mean the way that
japanese is written yeah
alphabets yeah yeah okay and there's
there's three different alphabets in in
japanese isn't there yeah
two
that are japanese and one that is kind
of taken from chinese it's the same as
chinese alphabet yeah yeah okay um what
do i find hard uh
again i guess it really is like the
conjugation and all this
it is these grammar structures
like
i'll try i'll do my best to give you an
example like in english you say i have
to go
which you just say have to
and it means i must go it's very very
simple
in japanese the word to go is iku
which is simple
if you want to say i have to go there's
a few ways to say it but one way is
and all of that
ending just means have to
yeah and it's like little stuff like
that where you have to memorize these
really long strings of words whenever i
say that to a japanese person they go
huh
i guess it's difficult i never thought
about it
but to me it's just like i can't believe
that's how they do it
yeah
yes incredible isn't it the differences
in languages um so let's talk about
awkward or embarrassing moments then as
i said before so you often ask people
about this have you and do you have
embarrassing or have you had any funny
moments in another language or in
language learning in general what about
your stories
i guess so it's so i think about this a
lot i tried to remember but i feel like
a lot of them i have
repressed i have
blanked them from my memory because
probably they were too
traumatic you know
yeah i was trying to think of similar
things too it just feels like every time
i go out and speak french or situations
where i have to use french millions of
things occur
that strike me as perfect examples of
how awkward you can feel in in another
language and then i go away from that
situation it's all instantly forgotten
um
so it's yeah it's hard to put your
finger on exactly
what that embarrassment or that feeling
is
yeah right i came up with a couple
examples um
so
i've said this one before on my podcast
and it's i don't think it was a bit it
was only with one person it wasn't super
embarrassing
but i i had recently learnt the word for
cannabis in japanese
marijuana
um
and
at a similar time i learned the word for
compost
as well and it sounds a little bit
similar it begins with the same
compost listeners is like when you let's
say you've you've trimmed the hedge
in your garden and you've got lots of
branches and leaves on the floor where
do you put all those branches and leaves
you collect them up and you put them in
the compost and you put in maybe scraps
of like vegetables and stuff you've been
cooking in the kitchen in the compost as
well and over time all of that stuff
decomposes and you end up with lovely
well it's called compost isn't it that
you can put on your vegetable patch or
on your your flower garden and it helps
to nourish the soil so that's your
compost so you you you recently learned
the word for cannabis or marijuana in
japanese and it sounds similar to the
word compost in japanese does it then
yes kind of yeah a little bit and i
think also when you learn two words at
the same time it's more easy it's easier
to confuse them
yeah um
and i
you know i was working on a farm at the
time so it was quite important to use
the word compost and i was like oh can i
have can i have some compost please can
you pass me the compost but i i was like
i was actually saying like can you give
me the cannabis can i have cannabis
please and she looked at me like what
what
like
we don't do that here because i mean
this is like very taboo in japan i would
say yeah yeah more than england
um so i had a weird look and then
i pointed to the bag and then she she
realized what i meant um it wasn't it
wasn't a big deal but it was a little
bit embarrassing and i've never made the
mistake since not that it is a common
phrase anyway
but yeah pass me the compost it's not
something you say every day
yeah that's a good one but i mean you
know what happened to you as a result of
that i mean what was what was the damage
done to you was there any you mean
mentally
yeah i mean we know because when we when
you know if we're talking about
confidence issues and that sort of thing
um and you know for some reason speaking
in another language makes us more
nervous than than speaking in our first
language
um and there's a certain amount of yeah
discomfort and
we can be we can feel scared and this
can lead people to stop speaking you
know they're in a situation they'll just
kind of as we say clam up and just kind
of sit there and not take part i'll let
everyone else speak
and so what is it that we are afraid of
uh are we afraid of saying the wrong
thing and having a misunderstanding of
that like that that could have been a
problematic you know cannabis is a taboo
in japan you don't just talk about it
like that and she could have been
shocked and stuff
so we we
worry about these sorts of things
happening i suppose but it happened to
you and what was the result
um i mean to be honest i don't think i
was too bothered this time
i i went to japan i've been to japan
twice and each time was very distinct
because the first time i was a bit
younger and i was really shy
i kind of felt that
awkwardness every day where i would make
some embarrassing mistake i would say
the wrong thing
i always had the feeling like i would
want to escape so i would you know i had
no plan so i would end up just like
getting on a train going to another town
and i had that feeling
wait a minute you were so shy so so shy
about speaking you were like ah give up
i'll just move to another town and try
again
kind of i mean it wasn't obviously i
wanted to see the country as well
i always had that feeling like
oh
right it doesn't matter i'm gonna go to
another town like i can leave my
awkwardness behind i'm gonna start fresh
in this new town
day one in the new town i would do
something embarrassing again
ah look at that embarrassing funny
foreigner and like
yeah so i think from that trip i've kind
of blocked a lot of my awkwardness i
can't remember anything because it was
just too dramatic
the second time i came i had grown a lot
i had kind of grown in confidence
and this was the compost trip that trip
yes so i kind of had the attitude of
like
make mistakes have fun people know i'm
learning it doesn't matter i kind of try
to remind myself that every day
so as a result i didn't
really
care like i did awkward things i forgot
people's names and
um
yeah called people the wrong names
things like that
just because it's a different language
but
i didn't really care so much go for oh i
have like the
the learner pass right like if i make a
mistake that they will understand
so it didn't affect me too much
um
unlike on the first trip
you know
where you were like running like a
fugitive from town running from my
problems
but the point i guess the point i was
trying to make with the question was
that uh so you had that embarrassing
experience and it's sort of you know
nothing really happened as a result
really there was there was no fallout
that you know you didn't it didn't hurt
you really
uh if anything it even made you stronger
because you you're like oh well i had
that experience now you've got a story
as well which is always good
um
but uh yeah i mean it's it doesn't
there's no
injury that arises as a result of making
mistakes in language and so on but it's
yeah it's difficult to come out of your
shell isn't it it really is but i think
that the point you made about just
having fun is really important because
this this can really sort of uh liberate
you as a language learner and if you're
just like i'm just gonna have a laugh
and just
have experiment in this language and i'm
going to make mistakes but i'm going to
learn from them is probably the right
attitude i suppose
yeah and totally what what's your view
on
having
maybe a bit of a drink and learning
because that's one way of doing that
right 100 agree
having it having a drink
obviously you know
responsibly um of course but yeah having
a beer or something um when learning
languages is yeah a huge makes a huge
difference it massively helps i'm not
saying everyone needs to go out and
start drinking but it you know it's well
known that alcohol helps you to
you lose your inhibitions
and this is vital in in language
learning it really is because you know
the effective filter which is that thing
that comes into play that blocks you if
you feel shy or nervous they call it the
the effective filter and there are many
different things that can you know
influence that for example feeling
judged or or feeling observed or
you know nervous for whatever reason
which is why as a teacher you've got to
try and get the right atmosphere in
class to try and get rid of that
effective filter uh damn what was the
point i was making
what was the point
like having a drink and yeah that's it
so alcohol obviously you know helps to
cut through the effective filter to the
point where you feel loose and you feel
much more comfortable and um so yeah a
drink is okay but you know i'm not
suggesting that this is a new learning
moderation yeah in moderation of course
um yeah but so what about you as do you
sometimes have a drink while you're i
rarely drink i mean back in you know a
few years ago i did a bit more and
if i you know there were some times
where i'd meet like a japanese person
at a party like oh and i tried to talk
to them try and be respectful and not
just like you know
hey i'm going to talk to you now you
have no choice yeah but um yeah i always
felt like my language was much worse
like i was slurring i couldn't say
things clearly
um
but i was saying
a wider range of things i wasn't worried
like wait is this right because i think
when you are
awkward and nervous you're always like
uh wait i want to make sure this is
right before i say it
whereas i i think it's probably better
just to say it
you know
drink on drink or no drink just say what
you want to say
and probably it'll be fine you know you
might not make a mistake and if you do
it doesn't matter really you'll learn
from it
i think it's really important to be able
to get to that point where you are
talking and it's almost kind of just
coming out freely you're not you're not
stopping
writing the thing you're going to say in
your head and then
printing it out of your mouth kind of
thing
it
your your your
thinking and your speaking is sort of
com
because you don't really have time to
check yourself and you're not worried
about checking yourself before you say
things so yeah getting the right
atmosphere getting the right people
around you and getting in the right sort
of emotional space i think is really
important for practicing uh your your
language learning
um
so social awkwardness right so you you
know as you've said if you felt shy and
maybe a bit more comfortable these days
has has doing your podcast uh helped
that was one of the aims of of yours
when doing your show was to try and gain
some more confidence has it worked
yeah i i would say so i mean i guess the
listeners can judge i had someone
she had a lesson with me yesterday and
she said she had listened to
all like 120 episodes in three weeks
whoa which i i did the maths and it
worked out like average of five a day
five episodes a day i
that's unbelievable so maybe someone
like that could tell me if they think
i've i sound better now um
yes unbelievable
but i i do think so like i do think i
can
even talking to my friends i feel like i
can make a more
comprehensible sentence and i can string
words together a bit more easily than i
could in english in english yeah yeah
yeah yeah
well it's bound to happen i i do believe
that uh experiences that we have
uh sort of you know pay pave the way to
gaining more exp more confidence the
only way to get to get it is to go
through those experiences
um i don't know
um we spoke when was it maybe six months
ago something like that
um yeah yeah i can't really
tell but you seem comfortable and
confident today
which is good i don't know if that's
because you're a guest on someone else's
podcast
so it's a bit you can relax a bit more
ah i'm definitely not relaxed i'm glad i
don't seem awkward and nervous but i'm
even on my own podcast after
you know over 100 episodes i'm always
nervous always
uncomfortable in
a little bit a little way anyway
so sort of moving away from language
learning and stuff and just talking
about social awkwardness so if you're in
a social situation what how does this
social awkwardness manifest itself i'm
i'm asking as if i don't know um you
know i i experience these things too but
just tell us try and tell us about how
that kind of social awkwardness
manifests itself you know
uh do you know what i mean
physically or
in terms of feelings you mean yeah all
of it so physically how you feel the
sort of pro things that are going
through your mind in a in a situation
let's say what's the situation i don't
know you are
um it's a kind of
yeah i had one yesterday if i can
use that like i met a friend we you know
we're quite good friends yesterday um i
was
trying to teach her how to use a
skateboard
and she'd never tried before yeah and i
i didn't she'll listen to this but i
felt
i i felt really awkward like because she
was like trying to use it and i was just
stood there like i didn't know what to
say i've never taught anyone to ride it
before and i think a big problem is
always like what i do with my hands like
i was crossing my hands putting my
pockets like i didn't know what to do
and i think this is a big
feature of awkwardness is when
you're overthinking everything you know
you're thinking about your position how
other people were perceiving you
um
you know i'm gonna lean on this wall no
way i'm leaning too much it doesn't look
natural
i know that feeling uh you know i do
that myself sometimes where you're
standing there like sometimes as a
teacher i'm standing in front of my
class of students and i'm standing there
kind of i realize i'm just standing and
like okay i'll just fold my arms and
then no i'm not going to do that and
just go
straight back to lean no it won't lean
yeah that does happen i'm going to put
my hands in my pocket so you realize
your coat doesn't have pockets so you're
just awkwardly like
rubbing yourself
yeah yeah you're trying to get your hand
in your pocket i don't know do you think
this is a british thing do you think
that we as a nation of people are
more uncomfortable uh with ourselves
than than other people
you know it's always hard to generalize
but even so i would say
yes because
most of the people that i speak to
friends and students
most of them are not british
and i can kind of see the differences i
feel between
myself and them and other british people
too
um
yeah i feel like there's a
general
i wonder what it is it's like
in the culture maybe we don't want to
we don't want to stand out maybe we
don't want to bother people
i don't feel like i feel like i think
we're very self-conscious so we're very
aware of ourselves like and and this is
a good and a bad thing yeah uh we we
actually consider it in the uk i believe
like that kind of self-awareness we
consider that to be a really important
social trait and people who are unaware
of themselves they they they aren't able
to objectively see themselves and see
how they behave
those people who are unaware
we
don't like that i think and we find that
funny or terrible
you know a lot of our comedy characters
are characters who essentially don't
have this quality they can't see
themselves they don't they're unaware of
themselves they're not self-conscious
enough and so they're just doing things
and um like putting people out you know
impinging on other people causing
problems without really realizing it mr
bean or something right
yeah or i'm thinking alan partridge
perhaps you know he's the sort of person
who just sort of has got no idea how he
really is his view of himself is that
he's like this great sort of tv
presenter or something but he everyone
just sees him as just you know
it's just a terrible egomaniac um so
yeah being self-conscious and being
aware of yourself and being aware of the
impact that you're having on others
i think we're quite acutely aware of
this for some reason it relates maybe to
our indirect communication style too
where essentially we don't want to put
too much
pressure on other people we are
concerned about
you know uh in invading other people's
personal space or emotional space you
know it's it's very sort of sensitive
situation
um it's not dissimilar to the japanese i
think that they can be quite indirect to
so maybe that's it that it's
self-consciousness and and as you said
like you can't help seeing yourself you
like you just see yourself standing
there you don't know where to put your
hands and so on so maybe it comes from a
certain kind of self-consciousness but
surely other nations uh
feel that way too or or do they i don't
know
yeah i i mean as you said i think it's a
very japanese thing i think
i would say in japan it's more extreme
in the sense that
you don't want
to make it seem like other people
you don't want to be a burden to other
people you don't want to people might
not ask for directions maybe that's my
experience anyway um because i don't
want to bother people
um
things like that i i feel like it's even
it's different but i feel like it might
be even stronger than here yeah i i once
yeah go ahead uh those embarrassing
stories and things i once uh i think
really uh what was the word you used but
uh bothered or something people um
burden i really burdened a person once
in japan so
i was uh i was trying to get cash out of
the cash machine
and i had to use like a like a sort of
like a passport thing that i got when i
had a bank account i had a card and a
paper little book and i think i was
trying to withdraw money with the paper
book i can't remember anyway i was
trying to use the cash machine inside
the bank and there were i couldn't see
any staff in the bank to help me i
didn't know what to press because there
were no translations on them on the
machine so i thought i'll just pop
outside and i'll just like get a passer
by to quickly help me press the right
buttons so i went outside i was like
assume i sent um you know can you can
you help me uh and this company guy this
salary man in a suit walking down the
street and he was like ugh okay and he
came into the bank with me and i was
like i'm trying to explain in broken
japanese and
mime and english like you know which
buttons do i press to to get my money
and uh he was like ah
like this like really clearly really
uncomfortable i i think maybe because i
was foreign and i was like speaking
english to him and he was probably going
to work or something and i just
disturbed him but
lots of that kind of quite uncomfortable
pained body language and i turned my
head to look to see if any members of
staff had arrived in the bank and as i
turned he escaped
because i turned my head away from him
and when i turned back he'd gone and i
looked and i just saw him disappearing
out the door
he literally he just escaped he ran away
completely oh that's terrible i i've
heard that stuff happened yeah
so the poor guy was i think i really
burdened him with with that one but then
in japan also at the same time having
said that i also would be standing at
the station or even just walking down
the street and people would just come up
to me and said ah are you uh are you
american
i'm like no i'm english ah can i speak
english to you and and then they just
talk to you for five minutes and you're
like okay all right right good right
that happened to me a lot too it's quite
nice it's a bit
like it takes you off guard like oh okay
i guess we're doing this but yeah it's
nice
yeah i mean
shout out to another podcast there's a
podcast called um abroad in japan
podcast which is oh yeah you know yeah a
lot of fun i know chris broad yeah yeah
that's amazing um
i think this
week or a recent podcast he told a story
very similar where
someone i think it was a caller they
were asking a
security guard for hell who was sitting
in his little security booth
and
he from a distance they nodded at each
other
and as this you know western guy
approached to ask a question he kind of
instantly nodded his head down and
pretended he was sleeping
he didn't want to talk and he was just
standing there like hello and he just
started snoring
no way really i think it's just a
it's uh
they want to avoid the discomfort of
speaking english because especially
people who don't have good english i
think it's not rude it's just
fear maybe
and a fellow japanese person would see
that happening and they would just
understand oh okay they don't want to
talk so they they'd probably leave them
right they wouldn't be like ah excuse me
oh yeah poking them they're probably
like
okay
i don't know
i feel like there's quite a lot of
mutual understanding between japanese
people where they kind of they know what
each other's going through and so
they're able to navigate that kind of
thing so they don't burden each other
it's a bit like you know in the uk we um
perhaps we sort of
are aware of what each other's going
through but i really think that feel
that strongly in japan i really felt
like
all japanese people sort of
i felt were on the same wavelength but
that's probably just because i was
different you know
um i think it's the same here right it's
that unspoken
cultural
rule almost like you kind of
know how other people are feeling in
some sense just because you've been
brought up in the same culture maybe
yeah yeah i think so
so um now awkward situations i'm going
to ask you some questions some specific
questions now and this is um all based
on some tweets by the popular twitter
account
very british problems do you know about
very british problems i've seen some
posts from them yeah yeah yeah funny
twitter account it became a tv show and
everything
um so
in
on in those tweets they just tweet like
little situations
that involve social awkwardness that
seem to sum up what it is to be british
okay so i've i've turned some of these
tweets into questions so let's see how
you respond to these questions okay and
listeners too viewers as well i want you
to consider your answers to these
questions too what would you do in these
social situations then we'll see what
michael says and then we'll see the
original tweets and see if they all
match up okay
all right so are you ready for this
michael yeah sounds fun
okay so question number one so imagine
you're at the airport
right yeah you you've arrived at the
airport um you know your plane has
landed and you've gone through and stuff
and the the only thing you have to do
you've got your suitcase you just have
to
walk through uh customs right and you've
got different options you've got um
the green one you've got the red one
which means declare you've got items to
declare like you bought items in the
country you have to declare them for tax
duty tax and then you've got the other
one which says nothing to declare
so how do you feel when you walk through
the nothing to declare gate at an
airport when you have nothing to declare
in your suitcase how do you feel when
you walk through it
honestly i
always feel
nervous as if i've made a mistake
[Music]
and actually i do have something to
declare and i've just like forgotten
about it and i'm gonna get
stopped over from people looking at me
behind some glass or something yeah
you're gonna get arrested yeah and
they're gonna they're gonna put you in a
police car they're gonna push your head
down
like that when you
when they push you into the car um yeah
the tweet so that the tweet goes like
this um
simply this worrying that you've
accidentally packed three kilos of
cocaine and a dead goat
as you stroll through nothing to declare
that okay and then when you get out to
the final
you know
open freedom airport hall you have that
feeling of relief like yes i made it as
if you've actually smuggled something
that has to be human nature that can't
just be british people that's got to be
everyone sure to hear from the listeners
and um see if this is a worldwide thing
but yeah definitely for me
please do leave your comments and and
tell us you know what you would do in
these situations also similarly if you
if i walk into a shop and i look around
and i don't buy anything and then i
leave
empty-handed i always feel like i should
walk out with my hands up like i'm okay
i'm not stealing anything
i always feel that way yeah i mean i
always feel like i look a bit shady i've
got like a cap i wear black a lot of the
time so
i don't know i inside i still feel like
a teenager as well i just i've never
mentally got past the age of 18.
so
i feel like they're always like looking
though what's he stealing whenever i see
a security guard as well
okay look look you know look casual look
look like i'm not stealing something
wait i'm not stealing something like why
do i have to say that and then because
you're thinking about it you look more
suspicious
this is exactly constant worry yeah it's
weird okay next one okay so imagine
you're sitting with a group of people
and it's time for you to leave
so what do you say as you kind of
slap your hands on your knees and stand
up
um
[Music]
i mean honestly i
probably i i don't often say that i wait
until someone else leaves first and
you're just like right
and then this slipstream i'll wait until
the kind of thing is over i i never
leave first but if i was leaving i
probably well it's getting late
something like that
sun's
sun's going down sun's low in the sky
i was thinking more just just simply
saying
right
um just the right and then at the side
yeah just that that's the tweet right
the tweet is being unable to stand and
leave
without first saying
right
yeah there's always that awkward moment
like when if you're at a friend's house
no one says like
well i should i'm going to get going now
it's kind of just like
well right and you kind of start slowly
backing towards the door so
when we leave to be honest that we do
say certain things like right well i'm
you know i better go i better be off or
um i'm you know i'm off
it's probably uh one of them right right
okay well uh yeah
i'm off i'm off i'm gonna do one as well
is is is one that i use sometimes right
i'm going to do one well i can have
different meanings i don't know
depending on yeah
do one do one what no i mean i'm just
going to leave
okay here's the next question
um if someone says something to you but
you don't hear it you don't hear what
they say how many times are you willing
to ask them to repeat themselves
i think the magic number is three right
and then you just kind of go ah yeah
so you would say sorry sorry what was
that you'd do that three times
it happened my
recent vaccination and she was wearing a
mask so i couldn't hear she was asking
me these medical questions
and i went sorry what was that
ah sorry and after the third time she
just went never mind
really so she gave up before me
so the tweet goes like this and it's
it's perfect it said uh it says not
hearing someone for the third time so
just laughing and hoping for the best
i passed the test cool
yeah spot on
spot on um so let's let's have the next
question
so what do you say to your taxi driver
as they approach the point where you
want to get out of the cab so you're in
the taxi you're just about to get home
your door is there so what do you say to
the taxi driver
[Music]
i'm not going to try to guess what the
answer is i'm going to be honest as all
of these i would say
um anywhere here is fine
yeah bingo
this is what all british people say to
say anywhere anywhere here is fine
thanks rather than saying drop me
exactly at my door you know you're
400 meters from your door like this is
fine i don't want to yeah yeah yeah just
any anywhere here's fine yeah thanks
mate
yeah thing for you well
absolutely same for me and i think that
it's universal i think this is the code
for
saying
stop it's basically saying to the taxi
driver stop stop now thank you good
night isn't it anyway anyway here's fine
thanks what else would you say that
isn't rude i guess
yeah otherwise it's like uh it's it's
just that it's that door right there yes
just a little further you know then you
end up being a bit too
annoying so yeah anyway here's fine
thanks man i don't need to trouble you
anymore yeah have a good night
yeah
also also i have a weird thing i don't
really want to point to a stranger where
i live
i i don't i don't think they would care
it's a taxi driver but i
it's always on my mind as well you know
yeah i don't know why so so the tweet
goes like this saying anywhere here is
fine when the taxi is directly outside
your front door
[Laughter]
so you're in specifically the right
place and you just like say something
very general yeah anywhere is fine even
though you're in
exactly the right spot already
yeah
we are we are weird but i wonder if it
is just us maybe other you know people
from other countries you know probably
uh just as weird as earth's if not more
if that's possible um next question i've
got loads of these mike i've got tons of
these we should probably do this quick
fire if possible
okay so you're you're on a train
sitting in the window seat with a
passenger next to you
and your stop is approaching
what do you do to signal to the
passenger in the aisle seat next to you
that you will need to get up in a moment
i hate this situation so much i would
start
rustling my bags i put my bag on my lap
and like sit up straight
and hopefully they will get the hint
i would wait until the train arrives and
then i would say excuse me if they still
hadn't got the hint
right well exactly the tweet is this
being sure to start touching your bag 15
minutes before your station so the
person in the aisle seat is fully
prepared for your exit
everyone does this i see this happen to
other people too all the time
okay let's move on to the next one uh so
you're standing at the exit door of the
train so you're in the train the door
the train is pulling into the station
and you're standing just at the exit
door the door is closed
there's a crowd of other passengers
right behind you
eager to get off the train
the open door button
is not yet illuminated
so where everyone's waiting for the
button to become illuminated which means
you can open the door so you're standing
right in front of the door the train's
slowly pulling into the station loads of
people behind you they're all desperate
to get off the train the but the open
door button isn't illuminated yet what
do you do
do you press the button
um
[Music]
i don't actually i'm sure the answer is
like they do but i wouldn't
um
okay yeah that that's fine that's very
reasonable behavior
um but the tweet it was this uh
repeatedly pressing the door button on
the train before it's illuminated to
assure your fellow community commuters
that you have the situation in hand
so don't worry guys i've got this under
control i'm going to keep pressing this
button
i'm not going to keep this in here for
any longer than we need to be yes all
right
don't worry guys
yeah i've seen that happen i i these
days i tend to just lean on the button
or something i don't really want to
touch it um
yes more hygiene reasons you know i just
lean on it and then when it illuminates
i just kind of lean a bit harder
just elbow yeah i'll do it yeah yeah
yeah okay um how do you feel when the
ticket inspector
inspects your perfectly valid ticket
always nervous always nervous as if you
have
not bought a ticket
yes the the tweet was this the huge
sense of relief
after your perfectly valid train ticket
is accepted by the inspector
do you get that sense of dread as well
when you hear the doors open you go
tickets please
and you're like
where is it where did i put it
yeah every time yeah yeah
okay here we go um what do you
what do you say modestly
to guests arriving in your home
even the uh even though you spent some
time before their their arrival
tidying things up let me let me say that
again so you've got guests coming over
you spend some time tidying the place up
making it look clean
and when the guests arrive and they come
into the home what do you say to them
about your home in a modest way
don't mind the mess
yes sorry about the mess
yeah it's kind of awkward but also also
it's kind of like
lifting yourself up right it's like this
is my standard of mess i don't know what
yours is but for me this is messy so i'm
usually even better
kind of like that isn't it wait so sorry
about the mess is like saying yeah yeah
exactly oh it's particularly messy at
the moment normally it's not this messy
yeah
or if sorry about the mess means um
accept the mess
i suppose
um but the the the tweet goes like this
you'll have to excuse the mess and the
translation for that is i've spent seven
hours tidying in preparation for your
visit
yeah
always sorry about the mess but you know
it's interesting these fixed phrases
that we use in certain specific
situations anywhere here is fine and oh
sorry about the mess or you'll have to
excuse the mess well going back to like
the previous topic of language learning
i think this is why it's so important to
learn from context and not just learn a
word list because there's so many
phrases that we use i mean if you said
to a taxi driver okay stop
that's correct english it's just not
totally
natural and polite for that situation so
it's really nice if you can
you know observe other people and that
kind of stuff isn't it yeah exactly this
is this is pragmatics basically what
we're talking about here it's just how
language has an effect or has an impact
on people and choosing certain
expressions or certain structures can
make a big difference on how it impacts
other people this you know we were
talking before about being aware of
yourself and the
the things that you do to other people
pragmatics it's all about that and so
not saying to the taxi driver stop here
or even stop here please or stop here
thank you but saying anywhere here is
fine thanks
yeah um
another question
and we'll do a few more of these i think
before we wrap this up
yeah so
uh it's sunday uh sunday lunch which
obviously is a big thing in the uk we
like to sit around often with a family
and have a nice roast lunch
so it's it's sunday lunch
and there is one
last roast potato on the table there's
one roast potato left
and you want to eat it
so how do you achieve this and you've
got multiple choice
so you want that potato so what do you
do do you do a
just take it and eat it
do you be ask if you can eat it or do
you see offer it to everyone else first
it definitely always see right right and
and this one do you want this plate
yeah do you want that do you want that
does you want that potato does anyone
want this i guess i can have it if no
one else wants it right yeah you got to
check everyone first and then
then you can scoff it
um the the tweet
was this indicating that you want the
last roast potato by trying to force
everyone else to take it
come on take it go on you go on why
don't you have it come on you have it
meaning i really want it yeah totally
yeah okay um next uh
emails because there's obviously sort of
etiquette and pragmatics to take into
account here too so how do you end your
emails what's the thing you write just
before your name
and uh sub question is there a slightly
less friendly difference
between saying kind regards
and just regards
oh yes um
[Music]
this this is a whole a huge topic right
i think you do a whole podcast on emails
i don't know how fun that would be i
will i will yeah
yeah whole course
i i always think about this i mean
you know we've emailed a bit you've seen
how i ended normally i would just say
thanks because i feel like
personally i think anything with regards
is too formal i kind of want to feel a
bit casual friendly that's just
my personal preference
um but yeah and when if you have to use
regards kind regards oh that's nice kind
of regards if you just say regards
i think of the game of thrones scene
yeah like just before they assassinate
someone
so all the lannisters send their regards
kill
so it kind of sounds very
harsh
and like like they're mad at you right
it's cold isn't it cold yeah so if if
you've been emailing this person and at
the end of emails you've been writing
kind regards
and then something happens and you're
like
well regards
oh cold
it's true
i always write all the best that's nice
all the best i think it's an album isn't
it um
uh
hold on a second
i think it's an album by paul mccartney
it is yeah
every email
yeah that's what that's not the reason i
use it but that is the title of an album
by paul mccartney all the best released
in 1987 capitol records
just to shed some light on how awkward i
am i don't know if you feel the same but
when i get an email from someone or from
you
saying all the best i feel pressured to
change my
word to something
similar
because if i just say thanks michael or
all the best that's better than thanks
it sounds like more polite it sounds
like he's wishing me the best
so i feel like i have to
change it to like match your level of
formality and friendliness
well yeah we do that though don't we
this is like a good bit of advice for
for emailing if you're ever wondering
what style you should use how you should
open and close your emails just check
out the the the
what the other person did if if you're
replying just use their style and copy
it you so if they're writing hi luke you
write hi michael or whatever
you know you just kind of like read each
other's behavior but there is often also
over time you go from dear
michael probably
to
high michael
to just high
to just nothing yeah so just going
straight into the main body of the the
message and this is like what happens
over time there's like a progression
from this kind of formal stuff to to
much less formal and the ending
similarly you might have all the best or
kind regards and then at the end you
might be saying cheers or even nothing
or just thanks or something like that
yeah that's often the way it goes let's
have another question or three um
oh yeah so what do you do
when you are
what do you do when you get an incoming
call on your phone from an unknown
number so you're sitting there and
suddenly you get a call and you check
unknown number what do you do
you you've really invited the per the
perfect person to talk about this
because i'm gonna i'm gonna be more
awkward than probably the answer and i
have disabled all incoming calls on my
phone unless they're in my contacts
because oh really
what i used to do is i never answered
them because if it's if it's that
important they'll leave a voice message
right there's no one i'm expecting a
call from
and if it's really important i'll have a
message and so now i've just disabled it
all together so anyone that calls me
will go instantly to voice message
so that's my
way to avoid being disturbed but also to
avoid the awkward situation
yeah very good
you've really got this under control
um so the tweet from very british
problems was this staring at your phone
in silent horror
until the unknown number stops ringing
yes so it's it's often just like
horror movie
stuff
and then just not replying um again i
wonder if this is a typically british
thing or if everyone else is doing this
too i suspect it might be more global
that one but yeah i might be wrong
yes i i expect so too why is it that we
are afraid of answering our telephone so
i don't know why
yeah next question yeah the fear of the
unknown yeah exactly who is it aliens
[Laughter]
um so imagine michael that you are
walking through a hallway a long hallway
with lots of doors in it you know like
double doors it could be in a library or
something like that or university you're
walking just behind a stranger someone
you don't know who keeps having to hold
the doors for you so they're ahead of
you and they keep opening the doors they
keep having to hold the doors there's
like loads of doors they keep having to
hold them so how many different ways of
saying thanks can you think of
um
yeah you would have to change the thanks
wouldn't you go oh thanks thank you
you might even get less and less as you
go for each door like thank you
thanks
cheers tar
yeah right
exactly
um
yeah because you can't just be going
thanks
thanks meaning
thanks yeah
so yeah you have to exactly thank you
thanks cheers tar
but there are others as well let's just
have a look at the tweet um running out
of ways to say thanks when a succession
of doors are held for you having already
used having already deployed cheers tar
and nice one nice one yeah nice nice
nice one as well of course so yeah
thanks thank you thanks cheers tar nice
one
what's left
honestly here's another
example of my awkwardness
it's happened only a couple times in my
life but i would often like pretend i've
got to text someone and let them go
ahead
so i don't have to be so close to them
anymore you know
you just hang back and like oh god i've
got to send an emergency text
yeah they'll be glad too because i'm
sure it's awkward for them too so it's
kind of you're both pleased if you
can do that i think
i i i for some reason i feel compelled
to
actually talk about
the most awkward situation of all
for men i don't know what it's like for
women
but i'm i'm gonna talk about this all
right everyone
okay so that's when you go to the toilet
a public toilet or something and there
are urinals
on the wall right this is what men's
toilets look like everyone don't know if
ladies if you've been in them i don't
know anyway there are urinals on the
wall these are the things that you
urinate into
and often they're quite close to each
other and the most awkward thing in the
world is when you go into you
synchronize with someone you end up
going into the toilet at the same time
as another person especially if you know
them a little bit and you end up
standing right next to them
and you have to try to
urinate and usually it is impossible
stage fright
stage fright exactly and then you're
just standing there
[Music]
standing next to someone who's like what
am i doing
that's the worst of all i can't stand
that there's so much
men's toilet etiquette like
never
i don't know why people do this when
when you're peeing at the urinal urinal
and someone comes right next to you when
there's clearly other spots open
what's going on there
personally i will always go straight
into the cubicle same
just bam cubicle lock
yeah with the elbow
and then
but yeah if someone ends up peeing next
to you that's that's horrendous
yeah so try you know and also of course
the number one
rule is don't look
number one
number one yeah the number one rule when
doing a number one
don't look don't
do that this this is another awkward
thing i i don't know if it's awkward is
you know there's that
just a little bit similar to when you
feel like you're stealing something in
in the shop
it's like
you you know you shouldn't
do something so you want to do it more
yeah like you're thinking okay don't
look don't look don't look so it's
almost like
you would never look anyway but because
you're saying don't look it becomes so
hard i've gotta look i've gotta look
yeah it's like
like a magnet you know it's like when
you're nick's next to a cliff like a
very tall cliff and you stand next to it
you feel like it's pulling you
almost pulling you over the edge
you know
like that
yeah similarly when you're in the toilet
and there's a man next to you peeing
then like like don't look don't look
don't look don't you don't even want to
look but because you know the pressure
is there to not look for some reason
it's
it's like you know trying to
it's like everyone don't don't think
about elephants it's like it's like that
isn't it everyone's thinking about it
now and everyone immediately you start
thinking of a pink elephant
uh okay strange turn there let's let me
do two more of these because we're
running out of time um let's see let's
see let's see how good are you at
overtaking someone on foot
um so you're walking down the street
there's a person walking ahead of you
they're a bit slower than you you need
to overtake them on foot so you're gonna
have to hurry up
i'm pretty good at that i'm pretty good
normally i would walk faster and i'd
notice the other person walk slower
because they want me to overtake that's
what i tend to notice
the tweet was this overtaking someone on
foot and having to keep up an
uncomfortably fast pace or speed until
safely over her over the horizon so
you've got to speed up and then you have
to continue going that fast in order to
put distance between you and the person
you've just overtaken yeah okay i feel i
feel like that might be universal too i
mean how could that not be awkward
anywhere else yeah
yeah you say that but you know i mean
i've been to some places where people
you know will will walk pretty slowly
behind in front of each other and
i don't know i don't get the sense that
there's so much
discomfort about being
in close proximity to other people you
don't know there's a lot more bumping
into each other for example in france
people generally
don't seem to mind being that close to
each other
you know i'm always aware of my personal
space going back to japan again the
personal space thing is very big and if
you're on the subway in in tokyo or
something you really do have to make
sure you've got your bag nice and close
and that you don't stretch your feet out
you don't man spread everywhere
and you keep yourself nice and small and
compact
it's just out of respect for other
people
london underground too i find that
there's more of that that people tend to
try to
you know try not to take up too much
space whereas in the french metro it's
less so so like on a scale you've got
japan at the top then you know tokyo at
the top london and then paris
comes third in in the in the respecting
each other's personal space uh thing
there's a lot more bumping around here
which is fine i suppose you know it's
just different um
how do you so do you feel it necessary
to speed up
when you're walking over a zebra
crossing
so listeners viewers a zebra crossing is
one of those pedestrian crossings
for people to walk over the street and
it's it's white lines like on the front
cover of the abbey road beatles album
that's a zebra crossing
so when you're crossing a uh when you
walking over a zebra crossing you have
the right to walk over that zebra
crossing there are cars waiting for you
um but what do you do do you do you
speed up or do you maintain the same
speed
yeah this is a good question i mean
since coming to since moving to london
i'm trying to change this actually i
know you said it maybe a speed round
about me
sorry yes yeah that's right
i used to speed up yeah but now recently
i'm trying not to because i don't want
to be
i don't like the feeling of always being
like
oh i'm sorry i'm sorry i don't want to
trouble you i don't like that kind of
feeling so i'm trying to be like it's my
right to walk i'm gonna walk at my pace
so i just walk at my pace i say thank
you
i don't but it's a conscious thing i
have to like consciously
not do that because
yeah i don't know how else to explain it
but that's a sign of confidence that
you're just like i will i'm walking
across this
like roger i don't know why that was
roger moore's voice i'm walking across
this zebra crossing
that's that's how i that's why i aspire
to be uh
you should be like roger moore how would
roger moore uh uh walk over a zebra i'm
rod i'm roger moore walking over a zebra
crossing
um so the uh tweet was this uh
deeming it necessary or considering it
necessary to do a little jog over zebra
crossings uh while throwing an
apologetic
mini wave a kind of pathetic little wave
and then you're walking and then you
kind of
do a little jog at the end and do a
pathetic wave god some some people from
other countries listening to this might
be thinking god the british are so
pathetic aren't they with their little
waves and they're jogging
across zebra crossings my friend calls
that the the british hop because like he
does it in spain as well no one else
does it in spain but like you're going
across the last like two-thirds of the
crossing you're just like kind of little
hop just to look like you're going
faster you don't actually go any faster
it just gives the image that
like i'm not taking my time i promise
cars you're gonna get there um only like
i think that's a very british thing that
hot
yes i do it in paris other parisians
don't but i'll skip across the road
and i suppose that you know and i
suppose the drivers are probably like
you pathetic bastard you know i just i
feel like people don't respect it maybe
they do i'm maybe being unfair i'm sure
there are
you know people here who find it lovely
and nice but the general feeling i get
is that people are like why are you
doing that why are you doing that to
yourself
um
one more one more so
if you pay for something in a shop
and you use exactly the right change
all the right coins so if it's one pound
75 and you give the person one pound 75
perfectly and you know it's exactly the
right change
do you wait for the cashier to count the
money before you leave
yeah or yeah i feel like that's
just polite anyway in case you always
make mistakes but yeah and then you have
to say i think that's right even though
you're you know it's right
that's that's perfect that's perfect
because it says first of all it says um
waiting for permission to leave after
paying for something with exactly the
right change
and and also another tweet which was
this being unable to pay for something
with exact with the exact change without
saying i think that's right
word for word yeah
i think humans are fallible like
we make mistakes i think it's good to
stay you know any anywhere in the world
isn't it until they confirm
yes i think so i think so but it's
really interesting because you've got
the vast majority of those well i say
right but the answers that you gave were
pretty much in line with the the the
tweets from very british problems so i
suppose i don't know what this means
does this mean that you're very british
or that very british problems is
actually real
uh i don't know but it's interesting
yeah i'm really curious if the listeners
have the same answers or maybe somewhat
different but also awkward in another
way that'd be interesting to hear we
really want to know listeners we really
want to know what your responses were to
those questions and you'll find all
those questions listed on the page for
this episode on my website as well and
if you're watching the video version i
think i'll probably be putting the
questions on the screen and the tweets
and stuff too so you can read them there
but michael this has been really
interesting and uh and and good fun
uh thanks for you know thanks for
telling us about your language learning
experiences and all the rest of it
and it's been a lot of fun yeah yeah it
has and and you know yeah good good luck
and stuff for the future with all the
podcast episodes that are coming uh what
what's the best way for people to
discover you and your your work
yeah i've got two websites which which
is a bit confusing but i've got my kind
of private teaching website which is e w
michael dot com like yeah that's michael
that's ew
yeah michael yeah eu even michael it's a
good um mnemonic to remember right
yeah it's ew michael.com english with
michael it stands for yeah yeah yeah ew
michael
[Laughter]
um and then i've got my podcast which is
level up english podcast and the website
for that is level up english dot school
oh yeah okay very nice okay listeners
there you go and you can find him on
youtube too michael have a lovely rest
of the day
um i hope you don't have any you know
awkward encounters
uh but if you do then you know talk
about it tell everyone about them on the
podcast it'd be fun yeah i will do i'll
give you a nice awkward goodbye now as
well
yeah i know this is always an awkward
moment at the end of an episode saying
goodbye do you do you find the same
thing it's very difficult for me to like
right right okay because you know
basically what i need is the equivalent
of like anywhere here is fine you know
for the podcasting well i can't just say
right well okay
yeah i can't just say right well stop
goodbye you know so i think i'll just
say anywhere here is fine okay michael
so uh yeah anywhere here is fine thanks
all right get out i don't know