Film Courage: Did anyone try to talk you out of making this film? Mark Landsman, Filmmaker of SCANDALOUS: The Untold Story of the National Enquirer: My accountant.
Film Courage: Okay aside from your accountant? Mark: No. Film Courage: No one said "don't go down this rabbit
hole?" Mark: The opposite, the opposite. You know it's like some things
are kind of self-evident. I think for me I'm interested in subjects
that are irrelevant to our world that are happening now that have an impact on
on all of us. So I was seeing this having a tremendous
impact plus I'm really interested in the way that the media impacts our lives
I've always been really fascinated with that. Film Courage: Do you think you could have worked
for the National Enquirer say 1980s 1990s? Mark: So funny when the film premiered
in LA a few weeks ago a couple of these Enquirer reporters were there on stage
with me and one of them we know were and said you know mark would have made an
amazing Inquirer reporter and Amy Nicholson knew who is our moderator I
mean and she said so Mark would you have would you have been interested in being
an inquiry reporter? And the answer is no. I wouldn't have I think that it's a real
Faustian bargain to take that job you are trading a lot of your own ethics
really for that job I like aspects of what they did I
I really believe in holding truth to power I really believe that people who
do things that are unethical who are in the public eye should should
be exposed I think that I don't have any problem with that
so some of the things they did I think were great in terms of that certainly
the reporting they did in the OJ case the John Edwards situation. Those were
things that I think were in the realm of I'd say good good reporting but for the
most part it's just been i think something that has helped to create
journalism and it the public's understanding of what is a
fact and what is not a fact and that's dangerous so no I wouldn't have been
interested in being a part of that. Film Courage: Had you heard the term 'catch and kill' before?
Mark: Before we started the film actually working on the film in earnest I hadn't
heard the term 'catch and kill' because the first time I heard the term catch
and kill was when I read Ronan Farrow's article in it was April of 2018 about
Karen McDougal and that was when that was the first time that I'd heard about
it that's the first time that I think it started to get introduced into the news
media in a big way in making the film before that like we were shooting before
that all came out which was wild that was kind of freakish that we were out in
the world filming The Enquirer and then this big revelation called 'catch and
kill' happens that the timing of that was really unusual but what we were learning
on the field from these old-time Enquirer reporters like no we never
heard of the term catch and kill before we always
called it trade outs like okay we have some really sketchy information about
this celebrity you know Bob Hope for example and so we're gonna present that
information to Mr. Hope's team, his publicist, his lawyer his agent whatever
it is and then in exchange for not running that story he's going to...
they're gonna trade out for a story about Christmas at home with the hopes
or a ride on the golf course with you know and they did this for all of the
major celebrities so you know you can imagine how much dirt they acquired
decade after decade of doing that kind of a practice but they called it trade
outs they didn't call it catch and kill catch and kill was something that I
first heard of through Ronan Farrow's reporting and then they were also by the
way his book is fantastic okay yeah and you have him in the film as well briefly
okay yeah our kind of job and then there were also where they would purchase the
rights to a story and sit on it was that like another form of catching
kill innocence because then that story sort of was taken out of the hands of
individual yep that happened in in a number of instances and in the film
there's there's a number of anecdotes that that go into that and that's a very
disturbing practice because a celebrity has been caught in the act of doing
something really heinous and often times it was celebrities who would go on to do
things much worse down the line and so you have to wonder had those stories
come to light back then and not been buried would the with the behavior that
happened later have happened and that's that's where I think the story gets
really chilling does the public have a right to know everything about
celebrities in your opinion after having done this film you know there's like
several camps on that some people think once you get into the public eye your
life your secrets are no longer your own the public owns you in some sense I
don't believe that I don't believe that I mean you know why should that be the
case I I think that a lot of a lot of gossip reporters a lot of tabloid
reporters use that I think to go to sleep at night and look at themselves in
the mirror but I don't believe that just because somebody is entertaining us or
compelling us with a great performance or you know engaging us with incredible
music or whatever it is that they're doing that we're entitled to know
everything about them I think that that's I just don't think that that's
right and I think that the truth is is that it's a business and that there are
benefits that celebrities and creative professionals artists musicians get from
being in tabloids they get publicity their permit they get to Brod films
people buy into their image they buy into the narrative but I think this kind
of ruthless pursuit of people you know hounding them with paparazzi hounding
their children I don't I don't see the point I think that's just more about a
sickness in our culture you know this obsession with wanting to know
everything about other people this comparison compare and despair
you know and that's that's that's a larger issue well one part that was
especially chilling in the film for me was when one of the reporters or maybe
two talked about how it was actual family members not not just disgruntled
employees of a celebrity or a politician that called in tips but actually like
family members and supposed friends and it was really based on jealousy
I was just that was that was sort of like a real gut reaction and and just I
don't know what are your thoughts on that I miss you far I was fascinated
with how many people would sell would sell people out you know that was people
ask me like what's the what are some of the most interesting things that you
discovered in making the film one of the most interesting things was the lengths
to which these Enquirer reporters would go to get sources around famous people
so like nurses who were checking people into hospitals, valets, maitre d's at
restaurants, waiters at restaurants, barbers, beauticians, but also close
family members. You know disgruntled lovers, the sister that is the
black sheep of the family, a child whatever. It is all these people were on
the Enquirer payroll so you know I don't think it's any different today but it is
pretty chilling when you realize that you know you get famous you get rich you
get powerful and there is a price to pay for that and then you become susceptible
to people selling you out. Film Courage: Was there one thing that was a huge
eye-opener for you in doing this film? Mark: I think you know what's so what's so
interesting the I think the the the number of people involved in gathering
negative stories are up about the rich the famous and the powerful and then
brokering those stories to curry favor or whatever they're doing whatever
reason it is why they would take a negative story and keep it and then you
know that that network was really eye-opening the fact that that exists
and not just in the Inquirer on a much broader level you know
somebody in our film says you know that there are thousands of these deals made
every day to protect the rich and powerful that's that's pretty
eye-opening that's a very sobering thought you know that if you have money
and you are in a position of power in the country and the culture that you can
use those resources to maintain a bright and shiny image and I think making this
film made all of us very aware of just how often that happens. Film Courage: Sure...wasn't Orson
Welles who had numerous things that were thrown at him for the movie that he did
from powerful family that wanted to silence him? Mark: Yeah, a powerful family in
the news business right yeah you know you make a film like that naturally
there's gonna be backlash. Film Courage: I think there was someone who warned him like "don't go
to that hotel room. There's a story waiting to happen there." you know
so yeah that's happened since forever. Mark: The guy from Touch Of Evil is in that hotel room
don't go in there.
you