is our responsibility.
TIM SCHNEIDER IS A PROFESSOR OF
HISTORY AT YALE UNIVERSITY.
HE'S AN AUTHOR OF BESTSELLING
BOOKS LIKE TYRANNY, 20 LESSONS
FROM THE 20TH CENTURY, AND THE
ROAD TO AN FREEDOM, RUSSIA,
EUROPE, AMERICA.
ALSO, BLOOD LANCE, EUROPE
BETWEEN HITLER AND STALIN.
TIM SNIDER HAS BEEN STUDYING
AUTHORITARIANISM FOR YEARS.
WE NEED SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT
THE WAR IN UKRAINE, I LISTEN.
NOT A ROW TODAY THAT VLADIMIR
PUTIN'S INTENT ON CRUSHING THE
UKRAINIAN PEOPLE BUT AT GREAT
COST THE RUSSIA.
IN HIS PIECE TITLED, BY DENYING
A UKRAINIAN CULTURE, PUTIN
FLATTENS HIS OWN,
CENTER-RIGHT'S QUOTE, VLADIMIR
PUTIN WANTS TO CRUSH PEOPLE
INTO ONE.
HE SAYS GOT TOLD HIM THAT
UKRAINIAN SOULS ARE RUSSIAN.
HISTORY REVEALED TO HIM THAT
UKRAINIAN STRIVES TO BE ONE
WITH RUSSIA, THE VERY LANGUAGE
HE SPEAKS AND TITLES HIM TO
INVADE ANY COUNTRY WHERE
RUSSIAN IS SPOKEN.
AN OFFICIAL RUSSIA NEW SERVICE
REMOVED ANY AMBIGUITY A FEW
DAYS AGO, PUBLISHING A TEXT
ADVOCATING THE COMPLETE
ELIMINATION OF THE UKRAINIAN
NATION AS SUCH.
AND SO, UKRAINE MUST BE CRUSHED,
AND ANYONE THAT THINKS OR
SPEAKS OF UKRAINE MUST BE
ELIMINATED.
AND QUOTE.
JOINING ME NOW IS PROFESSOR
TIMOTHY SNYDER AT YALE
UNIVERSITY.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US
TONIGHT.
WE TALKED EARLIER TONIGHT ABOUT
HOW RUSSIA IS USING PROPAGANDA
AND DISINFORMATION.
YOUR PIECE TODAY FOCUSES ON
WHAT THIS WAR IS DOING TO
RUSSIAN CULTURE AND IDENTITY.
I WOULD LOVE IF YOU COULD TELL
US A BIT ABOUT THAT.
>> THE CENTRAL IDEA OF EMPIRE
IS THAT THE OTHER SIDE HAS NO
STATE, THE OTHER STATE HAS NO
NATION.
THEREFORE, WE DISAPPEAR PEOPLE,
HEAR THE RUSSIANS, HAD THE
RIGHT TO GO IN AND SAY WHO
SHOULD BE IN CHARGE AND WHO'S
WHO.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT AS YOU
ATTEMPT TO CARRY OUT THESE
THINGS, YOU FIND YOURSELF
CONFRONTED WITH A REAL STAY AND
REAL PEOPLE THAT RESIST YOU.
AS YOU ATTEMPT TO CRUSH THEM,
YOU DO TERRIBLE THINGS
YOURSELF.
AS HE SHOWED IN THE LAST
SEGMENT, THE ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY
AND FIND SOME KIND OF CIRCULAR
LOGIC THAT MAKES ALL THIS
SOMEHOW ACCEPTABLE OR
UNDERSTANDABLE FORCES YOU INTO
ALL KINDS OF CONTORTIONS.
BY THE END OF IT, THE WORD
PROPAGANDA DOES NOT REALLY
BEGIN HOW TO DESCRIBE IT.
IT IS A PREFERRED HATE SPEECH.
ALL YOU HAVE IS TELEVISION, AND
ALL TELEVISION IS DOING IS THIS
KIND OF HATE SPEECH, THEN AT
THE END OF THE DAY, AMONG THE
MANY OTHER EVILS YOU COMMITTED,
IS IT DESTRUCTION OF YOUR OWN
CULTURE.
>> AS HE SAID IN THE LAST
SEGMENT, TENS OF MILLIONS OF
RUSSIAN SOVIETS DIED AT THE
HANDS OF THE NAZIS.
THIS IDEA THAT NEO-NAZIS ARE
RUNNING UKRAINE AND THE COUNTRY
NEEDS TO BE THE NAZI FIDE
SOUNDS BIZARRE TO MANY PEOPLE
IN OUR AUDIENCE.
BUT MAYBE THAT IS WHY IT WAS
SETTLED ON BY PUTIN AS THE
REASON GIVEN TO MANY RUSSIANS
IN SUPPORT OF THE MISSION?
>> ONE THING WE HAVE TO SAY
ABOUT THE HISTORY IS THAT WE
NEED TO REMEMBER THAT MORE
UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS, NOT JUST
PROPORTIONALLY, BUT IN ABSOLUTE
TERMS, DIED IN THE SECOND WORLD
WAR THAN RUSSIAN CIVILIANS.
UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS ALSO DIED IN
HUGE NUMBERS FIGHTING THE
GERMAN ARMY.
MORE UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS DIED
FIGHTING THE GERMANS, NOT JUST
THE AMERICANS, THEN AMERICANS
AND FRENCHMAN AND BRITISH
COMBINED.
I SAY THAT BECAUSE UKRAINIANS
ALSO HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO
INTERPRET THE SECOND WORLD WAR,
AND IT IS VERY REASONABLE FOR
THEM TO SAY THAT THE SECOND
WORLD WAR WAS ABOUT SOMEBODY
INVADING UKRAINE.
RIGHT NOW, SOMEONE IS INVADING
UKRAINE.
AS TO DID NOT SEE BUSINESS, I
THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO
UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING
HERE.
THE WORD NAZI HAS BEEN STRIPPED
OF ANY CONTENT.
IT IS A GENERAL CONDEMNATION.
THERE WAS AN ARTICLE ON SUNDAY
AND THE OFFICIAL RUSSIAN PRESS
SERVICE WHICH MADE THIS VERY
CLEAR.
A COLD FOR THE COMPLETE
DESTRUCTION OF THE CLINICIAN
BEGINNING WITH THE MURDER OF
EVERYONE WHO IDENTIFIED WITH IT.
ON THE LOGIC THAT ALL
UKRAINIANS ARE NAZIS.
IT CLEARED SOMETHING UP, IT
ALSO SAID THAT WHAT WE MEAN BY
NOT SEE IS THAT THEY ACTUALLY
HAVE ANY OBJECTIVE VIABLE
CHARACTERISTICS OF A NAZI, IT
JUST MEANS THAT THEY'RE NOT
RUSSIAN, THEY REFUSE TO BE
RUSSIAN.
THEY INSIST ON BEING UKRAINIAN
OR EUROPEAN, THAT IS WHAT WE
MEAN BY NAZI.
FRANKLY, THAT IS VERY
CLARIFYING.
WITH THEY'RE GETTING AT HERE IS
THAT ALL THAT MEAN BY NAZIS IS
NOT US.
THE OTHER CONSEQUENCE OF THAT
IS WHEN YOU STRIP THE WORD NAZI
OF ANY MEANING, YOU CANNOT
NOTICE WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE
DOING THINGS THAT ARE VERY MUCH
LIKE WHAT THE NAZIS DID.
YOU WILL NOTICE THAT YOU JUST
INVADED THE COUNTRY, THAT YOU
ARE TRYING TO DESTROY --
YOU COULD NOT NOTICE THAT
BECAUSE ALL THE WORD NAZIS MEAN
IS THE OTHER PEOPLE.
>> THAT IS A LIGHTNING.
THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
YOU AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN
WRITING ABOUT AUTHORITARIANISM
AND OTHER THINGS SPECIFIC WITH
YOUR LANGUAGE, AND THAT THE
HOLOCAUST DOES NOT MEAN ALL
THING, NAZIS DID NOT MEAN ALL
THINGS, THEY HAD SPECIFIC