[MUSIC PLAYING]
KECHY EKE: Oh, hey, Doug.
DOUG STEVENSON: Hey, Kechy.
How's it going?
KECHY EKE: Pretty good.
How are you?
DOUG STEVENSON: Not too bad.
So we should probably start the show now, right?
KECHY EKE: Yeah, but actually before we start,
I have a suggestion.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh.
[SIGHING] I knew it.
You want to host the show.
KECHY EKE: No.
DOUG STEVENSON: You want to call the show "Meet Kechy."
KECHY EKE: No.
DOUG STEVENSON: You don't like the set
and you want me to interview that curtain over there.
KECHY EKE: [LAUGHING] That would be interesting.
But no.
DOUG STEVENSON: Do you want me to leave while you
do a series of video tutorials?
KECHY EKE: Nope.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh, I know.
I know.
You want to release rats in the studio
and have them be big and scary and bite my feet,
because you know I don't wear shoes on the set.
KECHY EKE: Ew.
Doug, no.
DOUG STEVENSON: It's just I've been burned by this way too
many times lately.
KECHY EKE: Oh, come on.
But we're friends.
DOUG STEVENSON: Yeah, so were all the other guests.
OK, what's your suggestion?
[CRASH]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[TICKING]
KECHY EKE: Eat the whole pie.
DOUG STEVENSON: Fine.
[BEEPING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[APPLAUSE]
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to #MeetFirebase, the show
where you get to meet the Googlers that
make Firebase happen.
My name is Doug Stevenson, Developer Advocate
on the Firebase team.
And with me today is Kechy Eke.
[APPLAUSE AND CHEERING]
Kechy, thanks for being on the show with me today.
KECHY EKE: You're welcome.
It's a pleasure.
DOUG STEVENSON: Now, what do you do with the Firebase team?
KECHY EKE: I am a product manager on Firebase Performance
Monitoring.
Basically it's a product that helps app developers monitor
the performance of their apps.
So you can see things like how long it takes for your app
to start up amongst your users, and also things like network
latency for network requests.
So basically you can actually monitor performance
based on your real users as they're
experiencing it on the device.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh, OK.
So you're getting performance as your users see it--
from their point of view.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: This is a little different
than if you were building your app just on your desktop
or on your own mobile device.
And why is that important to get it
from your user's perspective?
KECHY EKE: Because you want to know what your users actually
experience.
And sometimes in the background, say,
from the server side of things, you
may actually see that everything is fine.
But a user's device could have different configurations
that could affect the way your app performs.
So for example, they could be on 3G
or they could be on wireless, and that could actually
impact your app.
And it's important for developers
to know that so that they know if there are different ways
that they can optimize.
DOUG STEVENSON: I see.
Yeah.
Because I noticed that when I test my apps on my phone,
it's a high end phone with a fast wireless connection, which
is almost certainly not what my users actually have, right?
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: So it's good to have
some empathy with what the actual end user experience is.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
So we just had the Firebase Summit in Prague
not too long ago, and we had a bunch of announcements.
And I know that Firebase Performance Monitoring
had a big announcement.
KECHY EKE: Yes.
DOUG STEVENSON: What was your big announcement there?
KECHY EKE: Yeah, so our big announcement was
this feature called Sessions.
And what that does is it helps you drill down
into an actual problem and figure out
all the different issues that happened
alongside that problem.
So with performance monitoring, we
have this concept of a trace, which
is a measurement of performance between two points in time.
And currently in the console, you can see a lot of data
about the trace, because you can see things
like the median duration.
But you can't actually look at a particular trace
that you are debugging, and you wanted more information
to understand why a particular trace is slow.
You can't actually do that from the console without Sessions.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
KECHY EKE: Yeah.
DOUG STEVENSON: So it sounds like before you only
had aggregate information.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: So you could see in general
what everyone was experiencing, but that wouldn't give you
any insights onto what one particular user of that sample
was actually--
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
Exactly.
So with Sessions, yes-- you can definitely
look into a sample for a particular user,
and you can see important information like CPU usage.
You can see memory usage, and you
can see other activities that were happening
alongside that particular trace to help
you understand why it was slow.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh, I see.
So you're getting more context into what
happened during that performance problem.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
Yes.
DOUG STEVENSON: Now, I think you wrote a blog about this, right?
KECHY EKE: Yes, I sure did.
Yes.
DOUG STEVENSON: Tell me, what can people learn from that?
KECHY EKE: People can learn how they
can use Sessions for debugging and in what context
and what kinds of problems you can use it for.
So it's a pretty nifty feature.
But I think the blog definitely explains how
to access it from the console.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
KECHY EKE: So it goes through the different screenshots
and tells you, this is the button you click here.
and then you can see all the information.
And then it gives a description of all the details
that's on that page.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK, so it's a walkthrough and a--
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: And there's a particular problem
that you're illustrating in there as well,
or at least a sample problem.
KECHY EKE: Yes, exactly.
So I think the sample problem that we have there is basically
a trace that's slow.
And this is for image loading, which
is for something like a shopping app.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
KECHY EKE: So assume you have a shopping app
and you're trying to see--
you have the user that goes to a details page
to see all the different items, but then it's
loading really slow.
And so that's the example that we use in the blog,
and it basically outlines, if the image is
loading slow, why was that?
And so you can go through the blog and see things like,
OK, there was a CPU issue, there was a memory issue,
and there was something else that
was happening within the app around the same time which
caused that.
And yeah, the feedback has been great,
so I definitely look forward to our users using it more.
People have actually used it to pinpoint some issues that
were happening in other parts of their app
that they didn't realize.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
Yeah, so if you're interested in that blog, go check that out.
The link will be in the description below.
And we do like your feedback.
We want to know what people are actually
using performance monitoring to discover in their app.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: So speaking of the Firebase Summit,
a bunch of us at Firebase traveled all around.
I went to Russia, which was new to me.
Where did you go?
KECHY EKE: So I went to Nigeria.
So I went to Lagos, Nigeria, and I went to Nairobi in Kenya.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
KECHY EKE: Yes.
DOUG STEVENSON: I've never been to either of those places.
So there were events there, right?
KECHY EKE: Yes.
DOUG STEVENSON: What was going on?
KECHY EKE: Yeah.
So in Lagos, there was the Developer Fest.
So it's a yearly event that they have, and basically it's
just this huge event where all these developers come
and they learn about different products.
A lot mostly focused on Android, and so there
was a lot of machine learning talks and Android talks,
and then also Firebase, because these are app developers.
And it was amazing.
There were about 2,000 people there.
DOUG STEVENSON: Whoa.
KECHY EKE: I was--
BOTH: [LAUGHING]
KECHY EKE: Yeah, it was--
DOUG STEVENSON: Never seen that many developers in a place
at the same time.
KECHY EKE: Exactly, exactly.
So yeah, the energy--
it was just so high energy and there was so much excitement.
So it was actually great to see that.
I did not realize there was such a huge developer
community in Lagos, so that was definitely eye-opening for me.
DOUG STEVENSON: Mm-hmm.
And did a lot of them already know about Firebase,
or was it new to people?
KECHY EKE: A lot of them did know about Firebase,
but they didn't know about some of the specific features
that I covered.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh, OK.
KECHY EKE: And so some of them were
really excited to hear that you can now use Firestore for xyz,
or you now have performance monitoring
and all the different features.
So yeah.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
Yeah, well I'm very excited to see what people build.
KECHY EKE: Yeah, me too.
Yeah.
DOUG STEVENSON: So you are from Nigeria, right?
KECHY EKE: Yes, I am.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
So growing up in Nigeria, how did you
end up getting into computers?
KECHY EKE: Very good question.
So both my parents are doctors, and so I
think the assumption was just that I
was going to become a doctor.
So I used to take science classes--
biology, chemistry, and all of that.
But towards the end of high school,
my dad bought a computer.
And he would get me to do all this work in Excel, getting
me to put data in there.
And I was like, oh, wow.
I was so fascinated.
I'm blown away.
I was like, this is so amazing.
And so I decided--
I was like, you know what?
I want to study computer science.
And my parents are like, you're not going to study medicine?
[LAUGHS]
But eventually they got over it and they supported me.
They were very supportive.
Paid for my schooling and all of that.
So I came out to the US, and that's
how I basically got into a computer science program.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
So you studied computer science in college--
KECHY EKE: Yes.
DOUG STEVENSON: --as did I. But I'm curious.
How did you end up at Google?
Because everyone has a little bit of a different story.
I find that fascinating.
KECHY EKE: Yeah.
Good question.
So after my studies, I started working
as a software engineer at IBM, and I
was doing Java API development.
So I did that for about--
I think it was about three--
I was at IBM for about eight years.
I did different roles in addition
to being a software developer.
And then at some point, I started
to do technical support.
And so I was supporting customers on their issues.
And this was basically on the same products
that I was building-- the Java API product.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh.
So as an engineer, you were both building it and supporting it?
KECHY EKE: Yeah.
So I switched roles.
I transitioned roles.
Yeah, I started building it, and then at some point, I was like,
I want to understand more about our customers.
And so I started supporting it.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh, OK.
KECHY EKE: Yeah.
DOUG STEVENSON: Interesting.
KECHY EKE: Yeah.
And then I realized--
I was like, oh my gosh.
Customers are using this product in complete different ways
than I initially imagined.
I was like, wow.
OK, so this is what they really care about.
It's not this xyz feature that I just built yesterday.
[LAUGHS]
So that was really eye opening for me.
And so I thought to myself, I wanted to learn more about--
work more with customers and help build features for them.
And so I decided I was going to go to business school.
And so I got admission, and I went to MIT
for business school.
And then as I was graduating-- and so an interesting piece
of this timeline is that Google actually contacted me
while I was still at IBM, before I went to business school.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh, like a recruiting kind of a call?
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
KECHY EKE: Exactly, yeah.
Someone had referred me.
A friend of mine here had referred me.
And so they contacted me.
I was like, oh, sounds like a great opportunity,
but I'm going to business school,
so contact me in two years.
And I thought they would never contact me, and I was like,
I'll never get into Google anyway, so--
but two years-- [LAUGHING]
DOUG STEVENSON: They did exactly what you said.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
I was like, wait.
You guys were serious.
[LAUGHING] Yeah, so I was like, OK.
I am graduating, so I guess I might as well interview.
And this was for a technical solutions consultant role.
And so I thought, OK.
That's pretty close enough to being a product manager.
You're still working with customers,
and you're working with engineers.
So I was like OK, I'll go through the interview process.
Let's just see what happens.
And then that's how I ended up at Google.
And I did the technical solutions role
for about two years.
And then I decided, well, I started
to miss a little bit of that engineering spirit
and working closely with engineering,
and so that's how I came into product management.
DOUG STEVENSON: Oh, OK.
So as a product manager then, you're
not coding on the product.
KECHY EKE: Right.
DOUG STEVENSON: So if you look at Firebase Performance
Monitoring, none of that-- you didn't type
in any of the code or anything.
KECHY EKE: No, I did not.
I did not.
BOTH: [LAUGHING]
KECHY EKE: Yes.
DOUG STEVENSON: But you get to work closely
with the engineers.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
DOUG STEVENSON: And you're also working
with the customers, in essence, to build something
that they'll actually use.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
Exactly.
So we do take a lot of customer feedback
to understand what we need to build
and what we need to prioritize for the product.
DOUG STEVENSON: OK.
Well, fascinating.
It's interesting to see how you got here.
KECHY EKE: Yeah, it's been quite an interesting journey.
I never actually thought I would be here, but it's been amazing.
And there's been a lot of great support, and so
many great teams here at Google.
So it's great.
DOUG STEVENSON: So Kechy, one of the things that not many people
know is that I was at a startup, Pulse.io,
that was acquired by Google.
And I worked on a product that eventually became Firebase
Performance Monitoring.
KECHY EKE: Oh, nice.
DOUG STEVENSON: But I didn't work on Firebase Performance
Monitoring.
It's actually a whole different set of people, and really
a whole different product.
KECHY EKE: Very interesting.
DOUG STEVENSON: So tell me, what is the team like now?
What is it like working with the perf folks?
KECHY EKE: Oh, they're such an amazing team.
Yeah, they're great.
And we're split up into different parts of the product,
so you have some folks that work on the SDK,
you have some folks that work on the front end,
and then there are folks that work on the back end.
DOUG STEVENSON: The front end meaning the console.
So like all the charts and graphs.
KECHY EKE: Exactly.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, exactly.
So what people actually see when they go into the console,
there are folks that will work on that.
And then there are folks that work on the back end.
And performance is-- obviously, it's
a pretty important product, but there's so much
data that goes into performance.
And so we definitely have to do a lot of collaboration
to make sure we have the right amount of data.
We're collecting the right amount of data within the SDK,
and then we're surfacing information
that's going to be useful in a way that is going to be useful.
And so part of the evolution of Firebase Performance
Monitoring, as opposed to showing a lot of performance
data that we've collected-- which is useful--
is also now being able to tell you
things, like these are the more critical issues in your app.
And so we have what's called an Issues Feed which was launched.
And this predated me, so definitely not
taking credit here.
But-- [LAUGHING] but it's a great feature
that summarizes the top issues.
And so if you go into the Performance dashboard,
you can see your top issues, and then you
can drill down into each of them to do some more debugging.
So yeah, it's definitely a great product with high utility,
and it's very useful for developers.
And we're definitely working more
towards helping users understand and analyze their performance
data even more with things like issues.
DOUG STEVENSON: Well Kechy, it was great chatting with you.
KECHY EKE: You too.
DOUG STEVENSON: Thank you for being on the show.
KECHY EKE: All right.
Thank you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
DOUG STEVENSON: And thank you for tuning in.
Be sure to subscribe right here to the Firebase channel
on YouTube to get more interviews like this
on #MeetFirebase, #AskFirebase, and other video tutorials.
And I'll see you here next time.
[APPLAUSE]
KECHY EKE: Eat the whole pie.
DOUG STEVENSON: Fine.