[Mansur] Do you exist?
[Atheist Man] Do I?
[Mansur] I'm asking you.
[Atheist Man] There's a very, very strong argument that none of us exist.
That this is all a simulation.
[Mansur] Do you exist?
[Atheist Man] What does that mean?
[Mansur] Okay.
[Atheist Man] I don't know. Do I exist—
[Mansur] What part of this statement is not clear to you in the English language?
[Mansur] Do ('do', 'does', 'did')
[Mansur] You ('them', 'I', 'we'), pronouns
[Mansur] Exist ('existence', 'nonexistence')
[Mansur] So which part of that statement—my question
[Mansur] is not clear to you?
[Mansur] DO-YOU-EXIST?
[Mansur] Then, I can answer the question.
[Mansur] Do you believe it's true?
[Atheist Man] No, I don't believe it's true.
[Mansur] Why don't you believe it's true?
[Atheist Man] Because I know that it's not true.
[Mansur] Okay, fine.
[Mansur] So you have knowledge; so do I.
[Mansur] So, knowing that this is not true
[Mansur] but this just some people giving, you know,
[Mansur] some kind of belief statement,
[Mansur] We need to understand, likewise when we say
[Mansur] there is something calle—a concept called uncreated.
[Mansur] And then asking who created the uncreated
[Mansur] is a meaningless statement.
[Mansur] It's like asking, okay—
[Atheist Man] But why?
[Mansur] Hmm?
[Atheist Man] But why is it meaningless?
[Mansur] Because uncreated means, as a concept
[Mansur] there is no creator for that thing.
[Mansur] Then asking who created this uncreated
[Mansur] is meaningless statement.
[Atheist Man] But why?
[Mansur] Because of conce—language.
[Mansur] Logic and language—hang on.
[Mansur] Is logic part of our language?
[Atheist Man] Okay, let me pose this in another way.
[Atheist Man] This group of people: who made them?
[Atheist Man] Why are they here?
[Mansur] No, no, no no.
[Atheist Man] Who made them?
[Mansur] Firstly, we are trying to—
[Mansur] We can answer—
[Atheist Man] If your answer is God, well
[Atheist Man] why is God not part of that question?
[Mansur] You're trying to jump to the other—
[Mansur] No, later please.
[Mansur] You're trying to jump to the answer at the end.
[Mansur] I'm trying to give you some framework in which we can understand
[Mansur] how to answer questions like this when they are asked.
[Mansur] When we have a concept, for example: true and false, right?
[Mansur] Yeah?
[Mansur] True and false.
[Mansur] Can something be true and false at the same time?
[Mansur] We would say no because
[Mansur] that's totally mutually exclusive.
[Mansur] You can't have, for example, you can't say
[Mansur] One plus one is two and one plus one is three;
[Mansur] knowing what one is, knowing what addition is.
[Atheist Man] Well we can because your truth might not be my truth.
[Atheist Man] And that's why—
[Mansur] Are you really saying—
[Atheist Man] No, no, bear with me.
[Atheist Man] There's lots of people that believe lots of different things.
[Atheist Man] You got people that think the Earth is flat.
[Mansur] Hang on, hang on.
[Mansur] Do you think one means more than one?
[Atheist Man] It might—it might not be—
[Mansur] To you!? To you!? To you!?
[Atheist Man] No, it doesn't!
[Atheist Man] Because that's obviously a mathematical equation which we—
[Mansur] Right.
[Mansur] So when you have one plus one equals two
[Mansur] and somebody says one plus one equals three,
[Mansur] can they both be true?
[Woman in background] Of course.
[Woman in background] Yeah, I can be pregnant and I am one—
[Mansur] Sorry!?
[Woman in background] I can be pregnant and one and one is three.
[Mansur] Explain that to me, please.
[Mansur] When you are pregnant, there's another one already in you.
[Mansur] So there's not one plus one.
[Mansur] It's one plus one and one inside you.
[Atheist Man] You're using a bad example because mathematics is all formulas.
[Atheist Man] Everything can be proven through the workings out.
[Atheist Man] That's why math works.
[Mansur] So basically, in this—
[Atheist Man] But life is not mathematics.
[Mansur] So in reality—
[Atheist Man] So what I'm saying is your truth,
[Atheist Man] your religion is your truth.
[Mansur] Okay, let me ask—
[Atheist Man] But to me, it's not my truth.
[Mansur] Am I talking about religion now?
[Atheist Man] Well, yes, the whole discussion is.
[Mansur] That's the problem perhaps because you're automatically thinking
[Mansur] that there is a—I'm talking about religion.
[Mansur] I'm talking about framework, principles, axioms.
[Atheist Man] How have we got here?
[Atheist Man] We got here because we were talking about—
[Mansur] We will talk about that.
[Mansur] To answer the question about who created God,
[Mansur] requires understanding the very basics first.
[Mansur] If you are one hundred percent truth in something
[Mansur] can you be five percent wrong?
[Atheist Man] Yes.
[Mansur] Okay—one second, please.
[Mansur] Let's not muddy this water.
[Atheist Man] Because my eyes might see differently to your eyes.
[Atheist Man] We have something called being colourblind.
[Atheist Man] So people see things differently.
[Atheist Man] Someone's truth is not the same as everyone else's truth.
[Atheist Man] This is what I'm saying.
[Atheist Man] And with science at least,
[Atheist Man] it might show the nicest true
[Atheist Man] but it's always questioning itself,
[Atheist Man] and sometimes they turn around and the science changes,
[Atheist Man] and they say, "Actually, we realize this is wrong."
[Mansur] You're actually talking about something that I'm not even talking about.
[Mansur] I'm not talking about the shades.
[Mansur] I'm talking about if you're hundred percent true and certain.
[Mansur] Do you exist?
[Atheist Man] Do I?
[Mansur] I'm asking you.
[Atheist Man] There's a very, very strong argument that none of us exist.
[Atheist Man] That this is all a simulation.
[Mansur] Do you exist?
[Atheist Man] What does that mean?
[Mansur] Okay.
[Atheist Man] I don't know. Do I exist—
[Mansur] What part of this statement is not clear to you in the English language?
[Mansur] Do ('do', 'does', 'did')
[Mansur] You ('them', 'I', 'we'), pronouns
[Mansur] Exist ('existence', 'nonexistence')
[Mansur] So which part of that statement—my question
[Mansur] is not clear to you?
[Mansur] DO-YOU-EXIST?
[Mansur] Then, I can answer the question.
[Atheist Man] Well, instead of being patronizing—
[Mansur] I'm not patronizing it.
[Mansur] No, I'm not! I'm not!
[Mansur] Don't be offended, don't be offended.
[Mansur] Because the moment people say, "What do you mean by that?"
[Atheist Man] Okay, I'll put it back to you
[Atheist Man] and you can give me your answer.
[Atheist Man] Do you exist?
[Mansur] I do.
[Atheist Man] How do you know?
[Atheist Man] Okay.
[Mansur] Did you feel anything?
[Atheist Man] Yes, but—
[Mansur] Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!
[Atheist Man] Could you be having a dream—
[Mansur] Wait a second! Wait a second!
[Mansur] Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!
[Mansur] If I didn't exist, meaning I was nonexistence whatsoever,
[Mansur] I was no atoms, no electrons, no quarks,
[Mansur] heptons, leptons, gluons, bosons—
[Mansur] I was nothing whatsoever.
[Mansur] No space-time continuity.
[Mansur] I was not a black hole.
[Mansur] I was not quantum fluctuations.
[Mansur] I was not matter.
[Mansur] I was not energy.
[Mansur] I was not time.
[Mansur] I was not space.
[Mansur] If I was totally nonexistence,
[Mansur] would you have felt that?
[Atheist Man] Well, how do you know that's real?
[Mansur] Would you have felt it?
[Mansur] —is my question.
[Atheist Man] I felt it.
[Both] You felt it.
[Atheist Man] But how do you know what you're feeling is real?
[Mansur] Wait, I'm asking you.
[Mansur] This is my question to you:
[Mansur] If I was totally nonexistence,
[Mansur] would you have felt it?
[Atheist Man] But you're assuming that I am real.
[Mansur] No.
[Mansur] Would you have felt it?
[Mansur] It's a logical question.
[Mansur] Would you have felt if I was totally nonexistence?
[Atheist Man] You're assuming—
[Mansur] And I apologize for pushing you.
[Atheist Man] You're assuming all of these things are real.
[Atheist Man] No, no, no, no, no, no.
[Mansur] I'm simply asking you
[Mansur] if I didn't exist at all,
[Mansur] and I define how can I exist—
[Mansur] I can exist as matter, space, time,
[Mansur] fluctuations, quantum fields, gravity—
[Atheist Man] BUT-HOW-DO-YOU-KNOW-THAT-YOU-ARE-REAL
[Atheist Man] AND-ANY-OF-THAT-EXISTS!?
[Atheist Man] YOU DON'T!!
[Mansur] Suppose I don't exist, right?
[Mansur] That's what I'm asking.
[Mansur] If I didn't exist, would you have felt it!?
[Mansur] That push?
[Atheist Man] Pushing me does not prove your existence or my existence.
[Mansur] So if I didn't exist, why did you move?
[Mansur] Thank you.
[Mansur] It's hard isn't it, when confronted with real facts?
[Atheist Man] No! No, no, no!
[Atheist Man] Because I'm not buying any of this.
[Atheist Man] Pushing me doesn't—
[Mansur] Okay, why did you move!?
[Atheist Man] —pushing you—
[Atheist Man] Everything here, everything
[Atheist Man] could be in your head.
[Mansur] No, why did you move?
[Mansur] Let's question it.
[Atheist Man] I move because you push me.
[Mansur] But I don't exist!
[Atheist Man] Well, what's the point you're making?
[Atheist Man] Maybe you don't exist.
[Mansur] Yeah, so why did you move?
[Muslim] If he doesn't exist, then you should not have moved.
[Atheist Man] But, this is what I'm saying.
[Atheist Man] Maybe I don't exist.
[Atheist Man] Maybe everything—
[Muslim] Well, you wouldn't move.
[Atheist Man] Yes, I would!
[Atheist Man] I'd be in his head.
[Atheist Man] If all of this was—
[Mansur] If you didn't exist, you wouldn't have moved!
[Atheist Man] If you were in a coma and you were dreaming all of this—
[Mansur] Look.
[Atheist Man] —you'd be doing all of this in your head.
[Atheist Man] But you wouldn't be doing any of it in real life.
[Mansur] I could have done something worse, right?
[Mansur] I only pushed you.
[Mansur] If I had punched you, you would've punched me back.
[Mansur] You would've punching back to
[Mansur] something nonexistent, wouldn't you?
[Mansur] Imagine I punched you,
[Mansur] I hit you so hard
[Mansur] and I swear at you.
[Mansur] I called you something very wicked, something very vulgar
[Mansur] about your mother, about your girlfriend,
[Mansur] about your wife, about your whatever,
[Mansur] you would be hitting back something that doesn't exist!?
[Atheist Man] You're missing the point.
[Mansur] Maybe I am.
[Atheist Man] I can't get through to you
[Atheist Man] because you're too—
[Atheist Man] You're too closed to the fact that there's always another question.
[Mansur] But the problem—
[Atheist Man] So you're using this as proof that I exist and that you exist
[Atheist Man] but it doesn't prove anything.
[Mansur] Look, the lady next to you doesn't exist.
[Atheist Man] Yeah.
[Mansur] Yeah, you don't exist.
[Atheist Man] She might not.
[Mansur] You don't exist at all.
[Atheist Man] She might not.
[Atheist Man] What are you basing—
[Mansur] No, no! Not might! Not might!
[Mansur] She doesn't exist!
[Mansur] Can you prove that she exist?
[Mansur] I say she doesn't exist at all.
[Atheist Man] No, I can't.
[Mansur] So you can't prove that she exist?
[Atheist Man] I can't prove that she exist.
[Atheist Man] I can't prove that you exist.
[Atheist Man] You—no one here.
[Atheist Man] I can't prove that any of this exist.
[Atheist Man] So, this is why going all the way back to the beginning,
[Atheist Man] this is why I can't have faith.
[Atheist Man] Because I cannot prove personally that anything exist,
[Atheist Man] and I'm not gonna accept anything else
[Atheist Man] as a reason for its existence.
[Mansur] You know what—
[Atheist Man] So, I take it all as it is,
[Atheist Man] and then try and enjoy it.
[Mansur] Okay, fine. I'll agree with you on one thing.
[Mansur] Brother, sorry.
[Mansur] I'll agree with you on one thing.
[Mansur] I would request all these cameramen,
[Mansur] to make me disappear from your cameras,
[Mansur] and you will see that in the camera this gentleman,
[Mansur] is speaking to himself.
[Mansur] Being pushed, being spoken to,
[Mansur] being reasoned with and then he will say,
[Mansur] "Yeah, I came to Speaker's Corner and I was just speaking to myself."
[Atheist Man] Well, th—
[Mansur] Should we do that?
[Mansur] Or when you watch the videos again, you will say,
[Mansur] "That guy didn't exist."
[Mansur] "I just reacted like that."
[Mansur] "I didn't hear anything."
[Mansur] "These are all projections in people's minds."
[Atheist Man] Okay.
[Mansur] Is that what you will say, right?
[Atheist Man] So I urge you to look up, later go on the internet
[Atheist Man] I don't personally believe it
[Atheist Man] but it is a strongly held opinion
[Atheist Man] by lots of top academics and scientist
[Atheist Man] that there's a strong case for everything being a simulation.
[Mansur] Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course!
[Mansur] Yeah, including you, right?
[Atheist Man] Including me.
[Mansur] I don't bu—
[Muslim] —a simulation, who created the simulation?
[Atheist Man] Well, I'm not saying I believe it.
[Atheist Man] I'm using it as a—
[Muslim] Was there a creator of the simulation?
[Atheist Man] Exactly.
[Mansur] Brother, just one second.
[Mansur] There are—if it's all a simulation
[Mansur] there is no such thing as a top academic.
[Mansur] They don't exist either.
[Mansur] So—hang on!
[Mansur] No, no, no! No, no! No, no!
[Mansur] Wait a sec—you can answer.
[Mansur] Imagine this is all a simulation
[Mansur] that means the top academics doesn't exist.
[Mansur] So I am not going to—I am not going to argue for
[Mansur] or even read books or go into the internet
[Mansur] for people who don't even exist!
[Muslim] Exactly!
[Mansur] What are you asking me!?
[Muslim] —then those academics are a simulation as well,
[Muslim] so they don't exist.
[Atheist Man] Okay, so—but what does that question ask then?
[Atheist Man] What are you asking at the end of that?
[Atheist Man] Who made the simulation?
[Muslim] What I'm saying is you—your genetic code
[Muslim] is very complex isn't it?
[Muslim] It's more complex than any other book that's been written.
[Muslim] As is hers, as is his, as is his
[Muslim] as is that blade of grass or that tree.
[Muslim] Can you not see that some intelligent being
[Muslim] had to be behind of all that creation.
[Atheist Man] —because, that very question, I want you to hold on to that,
[Atheist Man] because that's my whole point, is—
[Mansur] How can you hold? You don't exist!
[Muslim] Go on.
[Mansur] No, no. Look—turn around.
[Mansur] He doesn't exist!
[Atheist Man] This is—
[Mansur] You shouldn't feel anything!
[Atheist Man] This is a—
[Mansur] Brother, one second.
[Mansur] You should not feel anything.
[Mansur] He doesn't exist.
[Atheist Man] If you're going to be silly, we can't—
[Mansur] Silly!?
[Mansur] You think—you think this is silly!?
[Mansur] He doesn't exist!
[Mansur] How can you debate when he doesn't exist!?
[Mansur] Brother.
[Mansur] You don't exist.
[Mansur] Neither do you.
[Mansur] Take care.
[Mansur] You take care because you don't exist.
[Mansur] Okay? Take care.
[Mansur] How can I shake hands with someone who doesn't exist!?