SPROUL: Well, I think you know at the sixteenth century with the rupture of the unity of the
ecclesiastical situation, there was a huge debate on what is a valid church.
And because there was such a proliferation of different denominations and so on, and
the essential ingredients is that where the gospel is truly preached, the sacraments are
rightly administered, and that there is true discipline and government within the church.
And so I think that's where you begin.
You want to make sure that the gospel is truly being preached.
A church that is not preaching the gospel is not a good church.
It's an apostate thing, and if the sacraments are being mutilated, that's also a very serious
sign of apostasy.
And if there's no discipline, I mean we're in a time where there's rampant antinomianism
inside the church.
And it's not just as a matter of neglect, but there are those who are positively proclaiming
the legitimacy of antinomianism and—one church recently I heard, "We don't do judgment
here."
Well if a church says, "We don't do judgment here" it says to me, "We're not a church here."
Because you need all of those elements, and you say—if you want to find a good church
those are the elements.
And you ask me, "Where do you find that church?"
We hear that question all the time because there are so few examples of true, authentically
godly churches.
And I'd just say, "Whatever it takes, find it," because they're there, and they can be
found, and there are lots of good churches out there."
THOMAS: I'm tempted to say that First Presbyterian Church in Columbia is a very good church because
it serves really good coffee.
I don't mean watered-down church coffee.
I mean the real stuff, and so that …Acts 2:42 I think, "They continued steadfastly
in the apostles' doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread and prayer—and the prayers."
And I think that's Luke telling you something about what are some of the marks of the church.
"One, holy, catholic, apostolic" would become marks of the church, the right preaching of
the Word, the right administration of the sacraments, church discipline would become
Reformation attempts to say what makes a good church, 9Marks today, Mark Dever's organization
and so on.
I mean, that's another attempt to say, "Here are nine things to look for in a good church,"
but that's a, you know, that's a really good question.
And we find people asking that all the time, "What makes for a good, what are you looking
for when you're looking for a new church?"
WEBB: Is there ever a good reason to leave a church?
SPROUL: Yes, but one of the things that really scares me is that people are making decisions
on not a good basis.
Well, my biggest concern here is for the youth group.
We want to have a lively, vital youth group in our church.
It doesn't matter what the what they're preaching on Sunday morning or what they're doing.
What really matters is are we reaching the kids?
Come on, what really matters is are we reaching the parents and that they are communicating
the faith to their kids?
And so I think it's extremely important what happens Sunday morning for corporate worship
where we're instructed by the Scriptures and we gather together in fellowship and prayer
and those sort of things, and we don't want to let these lesser programs usurp the central
purpose of the church.