>> This episode is brought to you by NordVPN.
>> Head on over to NordVPN.com/rogue, that's R-O-G-U-E,
and sign up to get 99
years for $3.
No no, three years for $99.
>> That's what it is.
>> We're at DEF CON, this is affecting my brain.
>> It's like beaming things into our brain meats.
Altering our personalities.
>> I'm getting smarter, I feel it.
>> I don't think that's how it works.
I'm going to put it in my pants, see what happens.
[laughing]
>> Is there a time that you feel like
you got away with something special,
that you manipulated the system?
[laughing]
Even as I'm asking, I know the answer.
>> I was a kid, and...
>> Already that's terrifying.
Jason Murphy as a child.
>> Living in a small town, there were carnivals
that would regularly come through town.
>> Did you carnie the carnies?
>> Kind of; they would always use,
as I realized, the same tickets.
>> So you just went and bought those tickets?
>> We were at a hobby store
where you buy assorted garbage,
and my mom said, "Did you want something?"
"I want this roll of tickets."
"Why do you want these tickets?"
>> "I'm going to play pretend."
it's a game, called Free Everything.
>> I, for the rest of my days,
did not pay for a ride or anything.
>> They were red tickets, right?
>> They were just those red tickets in a little spool.
I just kept them, and I would get a fistful
and hand them out to my friends,
and we would ride all the rides we wanted.
>> Well I thought we were going to do
five people who won big by manipulating the system,
now we have six.
>> Now we have six.
[calming lounge music]
>> ROBOTIC VOICE: Five times people
manipulated the system and came out ahead.
>> Jason Murphy, let me be clear.
These are not cheaters.
>> It's cheating-adjacent.
>> They are heroes.
>> It's in the neighborhood of cheating.
>> They're wizards of manipulation.
They're hackers.
>> Sure.
>> They're ghosts.
I just go straight to the metaphor.
They're Battle Cats. [laughing]
They're Skeletors. >> They're bounty hunters.
>> For those who do not know,
we have new articles every single day
over at themodernrogue.com.
This one was written by Lydia Bugg,
and it's five of the greatest system manipulators
in all of history.
>> And the first one is something
I think we've all wanted to do.
Everyone thinks, "Man, there's got to be
"a way to rig the lotto."
>> Yeah, to win the lottery.
>> ROBOTIC VOICE: The lucky lottery lady.
>> So Joan R. Ginther figured out a pattern
of the way winning lotto tickets are distributed.
>> We should be clear, this isn't the lotto lotto
where they pick the numbers out of the vacuum tube thing.
Is that what they call it?
>> Sure, yeah.
>> Out of the bingo ball bin.
>> Do they still do that?
The random numbers where it comes up, this isn't that.
>> This is not that, this is the scratch-off things.
And those are truly random
about whether or not they're going to win
or the number of winners;
I guess they're not random in that it's pre-determined
that they're only going to have so many winners
with so much payout,
but then to distribute it,
one of the marketing decisions they need to make
is that they can't truly
let the distribution be completely random.
Otherwise, let's say, it's going to be a bad look
when let's say 700 winning lottery tickets
show up in Houston, and none show up in Austin.
>> Exactly, so they are geographically distributed.
She figured out the pattern.
>> Yeah, specifically, she figured out
which ones had not hit yet,
and then she would hop in her car,
drive out to a small town, unload who knows how much money
buying all of the scratch-off lottery tickets.
Guess how many times she won multi million dollar jackpots?
>> It's like four or five, right?
>> Four times: 5.4 million, two million,
three million and then 10 million.
After you win the 10 million,
you got to be like "I'm out, I'm retiring,
"I'm going to buy a bunch of mics
"and drop them with my millions."
>> Yeah, she would go to one of these areas
where she had predicted, mathematically,
where it was going to be,
and she would just buy a bunch of tickets
to make sure that she got the winning one.
>> So in casinos they would call this advantage play,
and it's similar to what happens when you're counting cards.
Counting cards doesn't actually let you know
what the next card is going to be,
you can just tell when the deck is richer
with more of the cards that line up with basic strategy
and when it's poorer.
So in other words she figured out
what are the hot areas that are due to have a winner,
went out and bought all the tickets,
went home a millionaire.
>> And the trick is,
she is a retired Stanford University math professor.
So she used all of her statistical wizardry
to figure out the most likely places to go.
So she didn't cheat, she just exploited.
>> Yeah, I guess so.
Exploited is such a nasty word though.
>> What do you rate this one?
>> A+, A+, this is the best of the best.
This is somebody using her smarts
and all the legally available information
right in front of her
to figure out where the sweet spots are.
>> I just love it because it's people using math and smarts
to just stick it to the man and wreck the system,
I give it an A+.
>> You want to believe that the next guy in line
who was going to be the winner was like a jock,
and he's just like, "Oh, okay."
>> ROBOTIC VOICE: Subaru uses the BRAT
to pull a Suba-ruse.
>> All right explain to me the Subaru insane truck, the BRAT.
>> This is a weird one.
There was like a tariff war or something like that
in the early '70s, right,
and so importing light trucks into the U.S.
got hit with a hefty tax, a hefty tariff.
So Subaru said, "Well, we don't want to pay that."
>> They said, "Let's make it not a truck."
and they were like, what's it take
to make it not a truck?
I don't know, what, two more seats, great!
And then they got, like, two lawn chairs,
duct taped them in the back,
and it's like, oh it can't be open-ended in the back, great!
And then they took a parachute
and covered it over the side, basically.
And people bought the BRATs,
they didn't have to pay the tax, they were competitive,
and then they immediate took off the silly extra stuff
and used them as trucks.
>> They said, "How do we take this truck
"and make it not a truck?"
It became something that was kind of dangerous.
>> Dude, when I read this article,
I went back and watched some of the old ads for the BRATs.
>> JASON: Was it bizarre?
>> It's just weird, it's weird to see
people walking around with microphones with cables on it
and not working from a script or a teleprompter.
There's awkward pauses,
and nobody really knows what they're doing.
>> And nobody really knows what they're selling.
I mean, look at the thing.
They're like, "This is this cludge."
>> They named it after an unruly kid that nobody likes.
>> They cheated the system
and they made a truly terrible vehicle.
But they dodged the taxes.
>> They did. >> What do you rate this one?
>> Eh, this feels like corporate smarminess, I'll say C+.
Effective, but not very elegant.
>> I'm going to give it a C because the Subaru BRAT
was arguably kind of a garbage car.
>> Oh, get ready for the comments.
You just awokened the BRAT hive.
>> The Subaru BRAT. >> BRATs assemble!
>> ROBOTIC VOICE: Girl scout sells
a different kind of edible.
>> I don't even think of this next one as manipulation,
I just think of it as good business.
>> Yeah, you got a Girl Scout
who wants to sell Girl Scout cookies.
Who loves Girl Scout cookies?
Everyone, yes; who especially loves Girl Scout cookies?
>> People who are high.
>> Or about to get high.
So she set up shop outside of a dispensary
in San Diego, California; cleaned up.
I believe the gray area on this
was that she didn't set up there,
she just kept passing by there with her wheelbarrow.
>> With her wagon! [laughing]
Yeah, because the Girl Scouts said,
"Well you can't set up a booth
"in front of a dispensary."
>> No, but I can walk by one, right?
>> She can walk by one.
>> Sure, I can walk by more than once, right?
>> She sold 300 boxes in six hours.
>> That's brilliant. >> Yeah.
>> This one is another A++.
Everything above board, everything fair.
She could set up a permanent factory
right next door to these guys.
>> A+; she didn't take advantage of anyone,
she didn't hurt anyone.
>> She did a public service.
>> She just had a brilliant idea.
>> Question, do you think it was her
or do you think it was the mom?
>> I think it was probably the mom.
The mom was probably there at the dispensary.
>> Like, "Oh hey, you know what?
"I just had a brain-exploding idea!"
"Mum, you have those all the times."
"No, but this one's going to be world-changing, kid!"
>> "What were we talking about?"
[laughing]
"Was it quantum leap?"
"No mom, it wasn't quantum leap."
"Oh yeah, it was cookies!"
>> ROBOTIC VOICE: Lester Hayes makes
a bit of a sticky situation.
>> Here's one I know nothing about.
>> I was about to say the same thing.
This is, we're woefully unequipped for this one.
In fact this is one I'm actively going to turn
to the folks in the comments
to explain to us all the nuance that we missed about this.
But Lester Hayes was a football player
for the NFL, with the Raiders?
>> With the Oakland Raiders, yes.
Or at one point they were the L.A. Raiders I believe.
>> Aren't they about to be the Los Vegas Raiders?
>> Probably, I don't know man.
>> Is that a thing? >> We probably
shouldn't even get into that at all.
>> We're not sports people,
but if we were sports people
and we were doing a Charlie Brown episode or something,
this is exactly the type of thing you and I would try.
This is a setup for a sitcom.
Dude covered himself >> In Stickum.
>> Basically duct type, like an adhesive,
so that any time the ball came near him,
he'd just go, slap, and then have it, basically.
>> He got so many interceptions, until finally--
>> Did you see the picture of him
with his hands covered with all the grass that stuck to him?
Because he's got glue all over his body?
[laughing]
>> It just seems, obviously to us, now,
that that's cheating big time, right?
>> Sure, he also would do stuff like
punch people in the throat as a distracting technique.
Now yes it was illegal, yes he got penalized,
but also, people left him alone.
He basically took prison rules to the gridiron.
>> He cheated a few times, but he got known
as the guy who will punch you in the throat.
>> So nobody wanted to cross him, right?
>> He didn't have to cheat anymore,
there was just the threat
of getting punched in the throat.
>> Okay, now you got to give a grade.
Because the sticky thing, I mean,
anything that belongs in an episode of Arrested Development
I think is a pretty good idea.
[laughing] >> I think it's pretty good.
>> But the punching in the throat, I don't know.
As I'm saying it, I was going to say a C,
but I give him a B-.
>> I don't know, it's not too ingenious,
it's really just kind of brutal and obvious cheating.
But it was effective, though.
>> The sticky thing!
>> I'm going to give him a C+.
>> Look at his hand.
[laughing]
>> ROBOTIC VOICE: Kickboxing champion
by process of disqualification.
>> This one is my favorite.
>> This one I'm conflicted about
because I'm a fan of Tim Ferris,
I listen to his podcast,
I got to meet him briefly at an event once
and he's here in Austin.
I'm meanwhile trying to think
of how I can get into Tim Ferris' orbit
and become friends with him,
but then I'm like, "do I want to call him a manipulator
"and a quasi-cheater?"
>> Oh I think he knows, his whole thing
is about shortcuts and cheating and manipulating.
That's his thing, so,
he is one of the Modern Rogue saints.
>> I agree, and of course,
we think about him as a productivity genius,
we think about him as figuring out
an effective way to get stuff done.
I don't think of him as a kickboxing champion.
>> Yes, this is something that I would love for us to do,
god, if we only thought of this,
I want to do something like this.
>> I would be terrified to do this
because the social pressure that you must feel,
nobody's going to like you when it's happened,
once they figure out what you're doing.
>> And he pissed off a bunch of people
who are really good at kickboxing.
>> Kickboxing, right!
>> But he became a kickboxing champion.
>> Right so let's explain it.
He figured out that the rule was,
no matter what was the reason,
if somebody falls out of the ring
because it's an elevated ring in kickboxing,
if somebody falls out of the ring three times,
they're disqualified and out of it.
And he's like, "Well I can cause
"someone to get out the ring three times."
So meanwhile they're in kickboxing stance,
and if you watch the video,
he just runs forward and bear hugs them
and just knocks them off,
which again, I don't know how that ranks
on is and is not kickboxing;
definitely got them out of the ring.
>> And it definitely got them
to change the rules afterwards
because they got this guy who had no kickboxing training.
>> Turns out the way they changed the rule
is it says, "Also, Tim Ferris is banned."
Everything is the same.
>> Well on top of that,
he also rigged what weight class he was in.
Because he was a wrestler in high school.
>> He claimed that using dehydration techniques
that he used for the wrestling matches,
he was able to lose, of water weight, 28 pounds in a day.
That sounds a bit extraordinary.
>> I can kind of see it,
because people who do that kind of thing,
bodybuilders and everything,
they have that down to a science.
He went from 193 all the way down to like
>> 165. >> 165, and that's
three weight classes below his actual weight.
>> And of course that matters.
If your whole goal is to knock somebody out of the ring
you want to have the bulk so that you can take them out.
>> So they must have thought,
why am I fighting this guy?
And this was in the Chinese kickboxing competition.
>> Oh, wild. >> So he just went
and showed up as this guy
who's 30 pounds heavier than everybody else.
>> I wonder if that's actually part of his technique,
is if you don't understand the language
everyone's insulting you in,
it probably makes it easier to not really care
what's happening. >> That's true,
you can call me an [bleep] in Chinese all you want,
I don't know what you're saying.
I would rank this one as A++,
this is my absolute favorite.
I think because he did it just because.
>> And also to do it in person, man,
that's a tougher thing.
To subject yourself to what you know
are going to be a lot of upset people,
I'm with you, A++.
>> Oh the stones that that requires.
Tim, get at us.
Join the Modern Rogues, teach us.
>> In fact, fans, tell Tim
that we want to be best friends with him.
>> Yes, we love you, we're local,
come hang out, we'll buy you food and drinks.
We want to learn your ways, sir.
I too want to be a kickboxing champion.
[Brian roars]
>> Jason Murphy, we're on tour, it's happening.
We're making live appearances,
we're at the world's foremost hacker convention.
>> We're going to get hacked,
why are you so excited?
>> Dude, we did a television show
called "Hacking the System".
>> That doesn't make us hackers!
[Brian splutters]
>> You're right, it definitely doesn't,
but it does make me happy to meet hackers
at our booth at DEF CON.
When you have 50,000 hackers
all in the same place at the same time,
you learn very quickly about some important security stuff.
No Bluetooth, no wifi, take it easy, be cool.
Know your source, and please tell me
since we last discussed this
that you have installed and are currently using
NordVPN on your phone.
>> I downloaded it when I got here
and I have yet to turn it off,
I'm not turning it off
until I can do some sort of exorcism on my phone.
Just in case.
>> NordVPN is one of the
highest-rated VPNS in the entire world.
It's certainly the fastest,
most reliable VPN I've ever used.
We are tremendous fans of NordVPN.
It just makes sense.
Use a VPN for freaking out loud!
Is that a thing, can we make that a thing?
For freaking out loud?
>> Yeah, you're welcome Nord.
Use that all you want, that's a freebie.
>> Use promo code rogue, R-O-G-U-E.
That's nordvpn.com/rogue.
And you can get three years for $99,
it's freaking amazing, the discount.
>> Stupid not to do it, just do it!
>> We're not going to call them stupid.
Although all of these people,
we should ask all these people if they're using Nord.
>> We should, and the answer should be yes,
because the hackers are here.
They're watching all of us.
[machine engine whirring]
I like to think that she was
crowned queen of the Girl Scouts.
>> Uh yeah, well true story,
she's now the actual Queen of England.
>> That's like a Simpsons episode.
It's like, "Zorro, you are now the new King of Spain!"
>> Oh, that's right, that was a great episode.
Because you had the Zorro,
and then tomacco, and glove slap.