REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF HE HAS THE
POWER TO DO IT ON SOME OF THE
QUESTIONS WE’RE TALKING ABOUT.
MEANWHILE, ON THE HEALTH SIDE OF
THIS, THE UNITED STATES AVERAGED
MORE THAN 1,000 DEATHS FROM
CORONAVIRUS FOR THE NINTH
STRAIGHT DAY YESTERDAY.
THE NUMBER FROM THE VIRUS HERE
IN THE U.S. NOW APPROACHING
160,000 DEATHS.
MEANWHILE, THE PRESIDENT
CONTINUES TO CHERRY-PICK DATA TO
DOWNPLAY THE DEATH TOLL HERE IN
THE U.S.
HERE’S THE PRESIDENT YESTERDAY,
QUESTIONED BY NBC’S SHANNON
PETTYPIECE.
>> YOU’VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT,
WHEN YOU’VE TALKED ABOUT THE
MORTALITY RATE, THE DEATHS AS
THE PROPORTION OF CASES, WHICH I
UNDERSTAND THAT IS SIGNIFICANT
WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW DEADLY THE
VIRUS IS OR HOW GOOD A COUNTRY
DOES AT KEEPING PEOPLE ALIVE WHO
GET INFECTED.
BUT WHEN YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT
THE SCOPE OF THIS VIRUS, WHEN
YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE OF
THE POPULATION THAT’S DIED,
THERE’S ONLY THREE COUNTRIES
THAT HAVE MORE DEATHS THAN THE
U.S.
SO, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT, WHY
THE PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION
HAS DIED IS SO MUCH HIGHER IN
THE U.S.?
>> WELL, I THINK, ACTUALLY, THE
NUMBERS ARE LOWER THAN OTHERS.
I’LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT,
BUT WE PROPORTIONATELY ARE LOWER
THAN ALMOST ALL COUNTRIES.
WE’RE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.
AND WE’RE, RELATIVE TO CASES,
ALSO WE’RE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE
LIST, WHICH IS A GOOD THING
BEING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.
BUT I CAN GET BACK TO YOU.
WE HAVE ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE
DIFFERENT LISTS ON THAT, AND
WE’RE GENERALLY SPEAKING AT THE
VERY BOTTOM OF THE LIST.
>> YOU DON’T HAVE TO WAIT FOR
THE PRESIDENT TO GET BACK YOU.
WE’LL SHOW YOU THE ACTUAL
NUMBERS IN JUST A MOMENT.
BUT FIRST, HERE’S THE EXCHANGE
THE PRESIDENT HAD A COUPLE OF
DAYS AGO WITH JONATHAN SWAN OF
AXIOS ON THIS ISSUE.
>> BECAUSE WE ARE SO MUCH BETTER
AT TESTING THAN ANY OTHER
COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, WE SHOW
MORE CASES.
>> THE FIGURE I LOOK AT IS
DEATH.
AND DEATH IS GOING UP NOW.
>> OKAY.
NO, NO --
>> THAT’S 1,000 A DAY.
>> IF YOU LOOK AT DEATH --
>> YEAH, IT’S GOING UP AGAIN.
>> LET’S LOOK.
>> DAILY DEATH.
>> TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THESE
CHARTS.
>> I’D LOVE TO.
>> OKAY?
WE’RE GOING TO LOOK.
>> LET’S LOOK.
>> AND IF YOU LOOK AT DEATH --
>> STARTED TO GO UP AGAIN.
>> HERE’S ONE.
WELL, RIGHT HERE, THE UNITED
STATES IS LOWEST IN NUMEROUS
CATEGORIES.
WE’RE LOWER THAN THE WORLD --
>> LOWER THAN THE WORLD?
>> WE’RE LOWER THAN EUROPE.
>> IN WHAT?
IN WHAT?
>> TAKE A LOOK.
TAKE A LOOK.
RIGHT HERE.
HERE’S CASE DEATH.
>> OH, YOU’RE DOING DEATH AS A
PROPORTION OF CASES.
I’M TALKING ABOUT DEATH AS A
PROPORTION OF POPULATION.
THAT’S WHERE THE U.S. IS REALLY
BAD.
>> WELL, WELL --
>> MUCH WORSE THAN SOUTH KOREA,
GERMANY, ET CETERA.
>> YOU CAN’T DO THAT.
>> WHY CAN’T I DO THAT?
>> YOU HAVE TO GO BY WHERE --
LOOK.
HERE IS THE UNITED STATES.
YOU HAVE TO GO BY THE OCCASIONS.
THE CASES ARE THERE --
>> WHY NOT AS A PROPORTION OF
POPULATION?
>> WHAT IT SAYS IS WHEN YOU HAVE
SOMEBODY WHERE THERE’S A CASE --
>> OH, OKAY --
>> THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE FROM
THOSE CASES.
>> IT’S SURELY A RELEVANT
STATISTIC TO SAY, IF THE U.S.
HAS "X" POPULATION AND "X"
PERCENTAGE OF DEATH OF THAT
POPULATION, VERSUS SOUTH
KOREA --
>> NO, YOU HAVE TO GO BY THE
CASES.
>> LOOK AT SOUTH KOREA, FOR
EXAMPLE.
51 MILLION POPULATION, 300
DEATHS.
IT’S LIKE, IT’S CRAZY COMPARED
TO --
>> YOU DON’T KNOW THAT.
>> I DO.
IT’S --
>> YOU DON’T KNOW THAT.
>> DO YOU THINK THEY’RE FAKING
THEIR STATISTICS, SOUTH KOREA,
AN ADVANCED COUNTRY?
>> WE HAVE A VERY GOOD
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COUNTRY,
BUT YOU DON’T KNOW THAT.
AND THEY HAVE SPIKES.
>> GERMANY, LOW, 9,000 --
>> HERE’S ONE RIGHT HERE, UNITED
STATES.
YOU TAKE THE NUMBER OF CASES --
NOW LOOK, WE’RE LAST, MEANING
WE’RE FIRST.
WE HAVE THE BEST.
>> I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE
REFERRING TO.
TO WHAT?
>> AGAIN, IT’S CASES.
>> OKAY, UM --
>> AND WE HAVE CASES BECAUSE
OF --
>> I MEAN, 1,000 AMERICANS DIE A
DAY, BUT I UNDERSTAND ON CASES
IT’S DIFFERENT.
>> NO, BUT YOU’RE NOT REPORTING
IT CORRECTLY, JONATHAN.
>> I THINK I AM, BUT --
>> IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THIS
OTHER CHART, LOOK.
THIS IS OUR TESTING, I BELIEVE,
THIS IS THE TESTING.
YEAH.
>> YEAH, WE DO MORE TESTS.
>> NOW WAIT A MINUTE.
DON’T WE GET CREDIT FOR THAT?
AND BECAUSE WE DO MORE TESTS, WE
HAVE MORE CASES.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE TEST MORE.
WE HAVE -- NOW, TAKE A LOOK.
THE TOP ONE, THAT’S A GOOD
THING, NOT A BAD THING.
THE TOP -- JONATHAN --
>> IF HOSPITAL RATES WERE GOING
DOWN AND DEATHS WERE GOING DOWN,
I’D SAY TERRIFIC, YOU DESERVE TO
BE PRAISED FOR TESTING, BUT
THEY’RE ALL GOING UP.
POSSIBLY 60,000 AMERICANS ARE IN
HOSPITAL, 1,000 DYING A DAY --
>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE
NEWSPAPERS, THEY USUALLY TALK
ABOUT NEW CASES, NEW CASES, NEW
CASES.
>> I’M TALKING ABOUT DEATH.
DEATH IS GOING UP.
>> YOU LOOK AT DEATH.
DEATH IS WAY DOWN FROM WHERE IT
WAS.
>> IT’S 1,000 A DAY.
IT WAS 2,500, WENT DOWN TO 500,
NOW IT’S GOING UP AGAIN.
>> EXCUSE ME.
WHERE IT WAS IS MUCH HIGHER THAN
WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW.
>> IT WENT DOWN, THEN IT WENT UP
AGAIN.
>> IT SPIKED, BUT NOW IT’S GOING
DOWN AGAIN.
IT’S GOING DOWN IN ARIZONA, IT’S
GOING DOWN IN FLORIDA, IT’S
GOING DOWN IN TEXAS.
>> NATIONALLY --
>> LOOK AT THIS.
THESE ARE THE TESTS.
>> IT’S GOING DOWN IN FLORIDA?
>> YEAH, IT LEVELED OUT AND
THAT’S GOING DOWN.
THAT’S MY REPORT AS OF
YESTERDAY.
>> ALL RIGHT.
LET’S SUSS THROUGH THIS.
WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAYS WE’RE AT
THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST, HE’S
TALKING ABOUT DEATHS IN
PROPORTION TO THE NUMBER OF
CASES IN THE UNITED STATES.
IN THAT LIST, THE U.S. STILL HAS
THE 14th HIGHEST NUMBER OF
DEATHS OUT OF THE 20 COUNTRIES
CURRENTLY MOST AFFECTED BY
COVID-19 AROUND THE WORLD.
BUT THE CDC, AS YOU KNOW,
DEFINES THE MORTALITY RATE AS
THE NUMBER OF DEATHS COMPARED TO
THE POPULATION.
HERE WE FIND THE U.S. HAS THE
FOURTH HIGHEST DEATH RATE PER
100,000 PEOPLE OUT OF THOSE TOP
20 COUNTRIES.
ONLY THE UNITED KINGDOM, PERU,
AND CHILE, HAVE A WORSE NUMBER.
TO FRAME IT ANOTHER WAY, THE
U.S. IS JUST 4% OF THE WORLD’S
POPULATION BUT REPRESENTS 22% OF
THE WORLD’S COVID-19 DEATHS.
SO, SHAWNA THOMAS, THAT WAS A
PAINFUL CLIP TO WATCH,
OBVIOUSLY.
THE PRESIDENT WAS REELING THERE.
BUT THE CDC, I WANT TO UNDERLINE
AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR BECAUSE THERE
IS SO MUCH MISINFORMATION FLYING
AROUND -- THE CDC DEFINES THE
DEATHS AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE
POPULATION WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT
THE DEATH RATE, NOT AS THE
NUMBER OF REPORTED CASES.
>> YEAH.
I THINK, NUMBER ONE, I DO WANT
TO GIVE SOME CREDIT TO AXIOS AND
JONATHAN SWAN FOR BEING ABLE TO
GRASP THE INFORMATION THAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS HANDING HIM IN
PAPER FORM AND ACTUALLY CREATE
THE ARGUMENT THAT HE DID IN THAT
CLIP, AND I’M SURE HBO’S VERY
HAPPY YOU JUST PLAYED BASICALLY
ALMOST THE WHOLE EPISODE.
BUT I THINK THE THING THAT I
KEEP COMING BACK TO FROM AN
ANALYTICAL PERSPECTIVE IS THAT
YOU DON’T REALLY WANT TO SEE THE
PRESIDENT ARGUING ABOUT WHICH
DEATH RATE IS THE BETTER DEATH
RATE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE
THE NUMBER OF CASES AND THE
NUMBER OF DEATHS WE’RE HAVING.
AND YOU POINTED OUT THAT THE
AVERAGE FOR THE NINTH DAY IN A
ROW IS OVER 1,000 AMERICANS
DYING FROM COVID-RELATED
PROBLEMS.
SO, THE THING IS, THE PRESIDENT
DOESN’T ACTUALLY -- I MEAN, A
PRESIDENT IN GENERAL, WHEN DOING
AN INTERVIEW LIKE THIS, DOESN’T
ACTUALLY NEED TO ENGAGE IN THIS
TIT FOR TAT.
IT IS REALLY, REALLY EASY TO
CHANGE THE PERSPECTIVE OF THAT
CONVERSATION AND COME AT IT FROM
THE IDEA OF THAT -- AND THIS
PRESIDENT HAS SAID THAT
BEFORE -- THAT THERE ARE TOO
MANY DEATHS IN THIS COUNTRY AND
WE NEED TO FIX THE PROBLEM.
AND THE WAYS WE GO ABOUT FIXING
THE PROBLEM AND OPENING UP THE
GOVERNMENT.
BECAUSE THE FACT THAT HE’S EVEN
ENGAGING IN THAT ACTUALLY MAKES
HIM LOOK LESSER IN SOME WAYS,
AND THAT ISN’T THE WAY
NECESSARILY TO RUN A WHITE
HOUSE.
THAT ISN’T THE WAY TO RUN A
CAMPAIGN.
THERE’S NOTHING FROM THAT
INTERVIEW THAT THEY CAN TURN
INTO A CAMPAIGN AD.
BUT OVERALL, IT DOESN’T
NECESSARILY SHOW THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAS COMPASSION FOR
PEOPLE.
AND THE MORE PEOPLE WHO GET SICK
AND THE MORE PEOPLE WHO DIE AND
THE MORE PEOPLE WHO KNOW SOMEONE
WHO DIES, YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING
LIKE THAT, AND YOU START TO
THINK THE PRESIDENT MAY NOT
UNDERSTAND WHAT I’M GOING
THROUGH.
AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS HE
CAN DO RIGHT NOW -- AND I DON’T
KNOW IF HE HAS THIS ABILITY --
BUT ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS HE
CAN DO RIGHT NOW IS ACTUALLY
SHOW COMPASSION FOR PEOPLE AND
THEN TURN TO CONGRESS AND TELL
THEM, HEY, YOU NEED TO GET