-Welcome to the show.
-Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
-So, obviously, when you undertake something like this,
you know you're gonna get to speak to a lot of people.
You also know you're gonna be open to criticism.
When you went into the first debate, were you prepared for --
Because you became very meme-able right away.
-Yes, very meme-able. [ Laughter ]
-Did you enjoy those?
Were you suspecting that?
-They were mainly hilarious.
-Okay, good. -So, I was down on the floor
laughing as much as everybody was.
-We were watching the first debate that night.
Kate McKinnon was on our show.
And I was watching the debate live with her.
And when you first started to speak,
it's the biggest I've ever seen her eyes get.
[ Laughter ]
Because she then immediately had an impression of you.
-But do I have big eyes?
-No, just her eyes got big with excitement
to have a political impression that she could do that quickly.
[ Laughter ]
Did you enjoy it?
-Yeah. -Okay.
-The vast majority of the stuff around the memes and stuff,
it wasn't malevolence there.
And I think that, you know,
it's like what you were doing earlier on the show.
First of all, political cartoons and jokes goes back all the way
to the beginning of our country,
and it's an important part of our public discourse.
Look what you did earlier this evening.
Very funny. Very funny.
And then somehow that opened a space
and you got really serious.
-I try.
-About trucking and the harm being done.
And the fact you began it with humor I think it's important.
It opened the space.
-That's the trick. -That's the trick.
[ Laughter ]
I know it has a place. That's a good thing.
-You've talked about bringing a moral compass to politics,
and I think, obviously, that is drawing a distinction
with what is happening right now in the White House.
Do you think that moral compass would be a platform
that would resonate as much right now
if there was someone else in the White House?
-Well, hopefully we wouldn't need it
if somebody else was in the White House,
but the issue is that he is.
And I don't believe we will beat him with a political argument
or an economic argument or even a purely rational argument,
but we will beat him with a moral argument.
He has no defense there
because he has no sense of morality or ethics.
So he has no defense against it. He can't engage.
-I think a lot of people,
certainly voters in the Democratic primary,
have already reached the conclusion that he is immoral,
which is the position you hold and that some people are also --
Some criticism has been that you have said that plans
are less important than drawing this moral distinction.
How do you react to that?
-I have never said that plans were less important
in terms of the presidency.
I have talked about how we defeat him in 2020.
And for that, I say, "Let's remember, in the last election,
we had the most qualified candidate,
and she certainly had plans.
All I'm talking about when I talk about plans alone
will not get the job done
has to do with defeating him in 2020."
You know, sometimes Democrats don't realize --
I think a lot of us don't realize,
the part of the brain that rationally analyzes an issue
is not always the same part of the brain
that decides who to vote for.
So we have to have a much more expanded,
much more integrative political strategy
that includes psychology and emotion,
and, yes, even spirituality and morality.
That's where people live and that's where you vote from.
-Are you finding it hard in the constraints of a debate format
to get across a message
of spirituality and morality and psychology?
'Cause it's just you have small chunks of time to talk,
and I think ultimately, even if you have specific plans,
they are 90-second chunks of time.
Have you been frustrated by that when you're out there?
-Well, except for Montana, I was the most Googled person.
-You were the most Googled person in Montana?
[ Laughter ] -No. No.
I was the most -- After the second debate,
I was the most Googled person except Montana because --
-Oh, Steve Bullock, right. -Steve Bullock.
They didn't know who their governor was.
So I'm saying -- [ Laughter ]
So I think I'm doing okay. -Yeah.
I'm sorry. Well, look.
Obviously, you know, hopefully tonight
people in Montana will be Googling.
-I love Montana.
-Don't pander.
[ Laughter ] -You can't say anything.