[CC may contain inaccuracies] Mark having a look at some of the findings of the report it looks pretty dire. Just the percentage of firms that feel that
they've been negatively affected the percentage of firms that are considering moving staff or potentially relocating
headquarters. How crucial is this juncture in terms of decisions like that being made.
Good morning Heidi. Thank you for having me on today and it is crucial but maybe before I talk about that I mean I think we
should first commend Hong Kong for the zero coca policy that they maintain for so long. I mean it's been able to keep the
territories safe and Covid cases pretty much virtually nil. And we've been able to live kind of a normal life within this
bubble. And so you could argue that Hong Kong in the first part of the pandemic has won the day. The challenge really now is
today is that their major competitors are major financial centers like New York like London Frankfurt Paris and now
including within this region Singapore Tokyo. They're all moving to living with Covid and Hong Kong and still maintaining this
zero Covid policy. And that's problematic because Hong Kong's ISC the financial center here is worth 20 percent just north of
20 percent of the GDP of this territory. And that's the direct amount if you add in the direct expenditure on luxury goods
housing restaurants far greater. So the challenge that we're having right now is we need to protect and enhance that.
And because of the tight quarantine requirements around this you know we're finding that firms are having a huge problem. And
every firm that we surveyed pretty much said running problems retaining talent. They want to go home. They want to move
elsewhere where they can actually have a move live a more normal life.
And they're also having when those people leave having real problems attracting people in to fill those empty positions. So
firms even if they are really committed to Hong Kong and China are in the situation where 50 percent of them 50 percent that's
half of firms are contemplating that they need to move positions out of Hong Kong. And that's really significant. So what we
really want to see from Hong Kong is we've seen them say you know China is a priority at opening up to China's priority
priority. And that's where a lot of the firm's clients are. However we need some sort of a roadmap to keep all the
individuals at work for these companies some sort of comfort and certainty that they're going to be able to move on to a normal
life within the foreseeable future as these are seeing in other ISE. Otherwise the firms in this they're going to lose these
people. Mark I should point out as I was speaking to you you yourself
are in quarantine. Let's turn to Hong Kong. The problem is that the roadmap to living with Covid for example here in Australia
here in Sydney vaccination getting vaccination rates really high is such a key part of that. That's not even something that the
corporate sector can do in Hong Kong because the lag is over 60s.
That's correct and I think getting the vaccination rates up is hugely important. I mean I just came back you mentioned from
Canada seeing my parents and you know what you see there and is the other government saying that if you want to be employed you
need to be vaccinated and you're seeing the private sector following that you're seeing vaccine passports coming in that if
you want to go to a restaurant you need to be vaccinated. If you want to do anything in the community you need to be vaccinated.
So there needs to be tools that actually get those vaccination rates up that the government can use which which ultimately will
allow for the opening up. And as you say the most vulnerable people are the ones that aren't getting vaccinated. I mean you
know again I was just in Canada and you know if you get into a home you need to be vaccinated to see or if you see your folks
you know the people in the homes need to be vaccinated. They don't have a choice if they want to be there. So there are
things that government can do to get those vaccination rates up much faster so that we can open up and maintain as I say that I
see. I think know what we really want to see and from Hong Kong is they won probably the first part of Covid. Can they win the
second part of Covid by catching up and ultimately opening up and protecting the IOC. I see as the future of Hong Kong without
the financial center. You know Hong Kong economically is going to suffer. It's in China's interests. Interesting. Take that as
well. Did you feel like the global banks and the big asset managers have gotten more stirred
up about this. That has become a much bigger concern. They didn't seem so vocal previously. Well I think it comes back to
the point I made earlier right is that even if they're committed to Hong Kong and are committed to China which they all are and
that's why they're here. The individuals are looking across the border and they're seeing back home that things are going back
to normal. They're seeing the competing competing financial centers opening up. So they don't want to be stuck here in this
bubble and they don't want to have to do quarantine when they come back to the standards that we're seeing. So they're being
forced by their employees to actually take this seriously because they're seeing a huge amount of people leaving and they
can't replace them. That's why the employment market in Hong Kong is so buoyant because the only way of actually replacing
people is effectively poaching them from your competitors which is also increasing the cost of your of of staff which is pretty
much the dominant cost for banks in financial markets. Well Mark Carol Massar is accountable to Chinese government not to big
global institutions. So how confident are you that they might actually consider ending the Covid Covid zero strategy with a
clear exit strategy maybe even more testing and offices that kind of thing the way many places that many companies in New
York have done. Or do you think that they're just going to put their foot down.
Yeah I think at the moment it seems like they're putting their foot down but I think you know one of the reasons why we want to
have this engagement and we want to be constructive is we all want the same thing. I think Terry Lamb is she's made it very
clear she wants to maintain and protect the IFC. She recognizes the benefits to Hong Kong. We recognize that Hong Kong basically
asked to have a discussion and agree what they do with China. And that makes perfect sense. You know Hong Kong is it is an
inalienable part of China. However you know both Hong Kong and China need to understand that the current policies put the IFC
under threat. And that's not really in Hong Kong's interest. But it's no longer it's not in China's interest either. You know
China wants to you know Hong Kong is China's only IFC. And if that changes into just a Chinese financial sense or some sort of
off offshore centre or not in the structural financials that's not in China's interest either. So you're in those discussions.
You know our view is we think there are people within the government that very well understand this is to advocate for a
stronger opening for for Hong Kong and a clear roadmap to do it. And then and then they could do some even small things
initially. You know the look back policy I mean for example if I tested positive when I came in from Canada the other day they
would look back 21 days. I was only in Canada for days so my family could be sent to Penny Bay. Anybody in close contact to
me said Hey Bay even though the chances of me picking up Covid in Hong Kong would have been pretty much nil.
And you know those policies can change. They can make tweaks around around the sides with these things are even tougher than
you see in China. So there's no reason why they have to be so tough compared to where all these.