i think the one thing that became
illuminating this year is the role of
police unions uh
and how a lot of these changes are must
be enacted at the state level
what a lot of people don't realize i
kind of feel like time is flat right so
a hundred years ago in 1919 you had the
red summer and violence was
so bad i mean you had these violent
white aggressors who would just
come ratatt in in black cities all
across the country
and it was so bad that cities had to set
up these uh
councils and it was like yeah it's okay
to beat a black person or to shoot a
black person but you gotta be wearing a
badge while you do it
so for people who don't understand the
history
of white supremacy and law enforcement
learn a little bit of american history
and they might
so when we look at it through that lens
brittany you as an activist who are on
the ground doing this work i have been
with you on the ground
uh witnessing you doing this work um
like how do we educate people and inform
people that this is actually a problem
it might not impact you
but this is actually a problem you know
it's interesting
about the way privilege actually
functions privilege convinces you that a
problem isn't a problem simply because
you haven't suffered
from it so uh inconvenience can feel
like oppression this is what we have
seen from
anti-masters right but what we also need
to do those of us who believe
fundamentally that black lives do matter
and should be treated humanely
is to educate ourselves about what
always happens
whenever we talk about power shifts and
power struggles in this country
people who are bothered by the basic
fundamental idea
that black lives matter are bothered
actually by their fear of what happens
when black lives really begin to matter
in policy
because if black lives actually begin to
matter folks will start to worry about
what happens to them
because their power has been dependent
on black lives not mattering
so it's just as important as we educate
other people for us to be real with
ourselves
about the work that we're actually doing
we're not just talking about putting
some officers in jail
we're not just talking about recycling a
carceral system
that harms all of us especially
marginalized communities
we're talking about a fundamental shift
in power
that actually empowers all people
instead of just
the wealthy often white often male often
cisgender and heteronormative view
that's what we're talking about here
that's the work that we're doing here
police unions are certainly uh not just
a part of that but they
uphold that kind of power power
mismanagement
right they kind of uphold uh these ideas
that some people are above the law and
other people
are subject to an unequal administration
of the law so we're talking about a
power shift
and the clearer we get on the fact that
that's our work the further we can go
the faster we can get there
and and the more we can stop spending
our time trying to convince people
who will remain unconvinced right
exactly so that might be a waste of time
i want to bring in tremaine lee he's an
msnbc correspondent and host of the
podcast into america and also happens to
be one of my oldest friends so tremaine
i'm happy to have you on
uh the show today and you are somebody
who has covered this story since it's
genesis since its inception you and i
have been on the ground together we were
on the ground in florida
around the time trayvon martin uh was
was killed
so i want to ask you as someone who has
covered this story
for nearly a decade now what were some
of the things that you noticed this year
and why do you think this year was so
different tiffany thank you very much
for having me congratulations again i
know i'm a few weeks late but
congratulations
um you know it's been interesting to see
the maturation of this process born from
so much pain after
the killing of trayvon martin george
zimmerman gets off to see it kind of get
full body
during ferguson and the killing of
michael brown and then we saw george
floyd
and that cross-racial kind of
demographic that we hadn't seen in the
past
actually started to swell there was a
moment during the summer i went support
for black lives matter hit an all-time
high like 86
percent uh but i also want to look at
the bigger picture here and you think
about who
the actual allies are there's a story i
heard uh from corey bush
where she's a ferguson activist um you
know a nurse
a minister and she finally gets elected
to congress she goes to washington
and she has a briana taylor face mask on
and some of her colleagues think her
name is brianna taylor
now what did that say when uh colleagues
in congress
will see a black woman in the halls of
congress and think her name
is brianna taylor you you wouldn't
accidentally just trip over the name of
brianna taylor
what does that say about the heft of the
broader movement and allies perhaps in
congress
and then we think about all the progress
made over the the obama years
we had the push for consent decrees
which was a tool really to hold police
departments accountable
and jeff sessions his literal last move
out the door
was to blow up the entire process and so
while there needs to be
change on the state level and certainly
support from congress
uh president joe biden could by
executive order reinforce
with a memo uh the consent decree
process but to see
uh the process grow but also let's think
about this what happens when you finally
do have that support and you have
millions and millions of dollars flowing
in
there is some real concern among black
lives matter uh chapter organizations
that what was supposed to be this
decentralized movement with no real
leadership
has now actually seen power concentrated
there's a pac-man set up there's this
global effort set up there's grassroots
organization set up and there have been
10 chapters who signed a letter saying
hey you know what's up what's up with
some transparency not unlike sclc
and some of the other movements we've
seen in the past but it's kind of these
growing pains
but again to see those pictures from
over the summer after the killing of
george floyd
folks from all walks of life coming out
showing that there is some support
for some systemic change but again as
the dust settles will we retreat back in
our corners
i think that's the real test how does
the movement in this maturation process
that really harness all the good will
and the money and the support to make
some lasting change
hey there i'm chris hayes from msnbc
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