>> MATT DAMON IS GETTING A TON OF CRITICISM AFTER ONE OF HIS
EPISODES OF PROJECT GREENLIGHT, WHICH IS A DOCUSERIES ON
HBO.
THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SHOW IS A COMPETITION TO
BASICALLY GET NEW FILMMAKERS, TALENTED FILMMAKERS WHO WIN THE
COMPETITION, TO CREATE A FEATURE FILM.
AND AS A RESULT, THE
PEOPLE WHO WERE CHOSEN FOR IT DECIDED TO CREATE A FILM THAT
INVOLVES A WHITE PIMP SLAPPING A BLACK PROSTITUTE.
KEEP IN MIND
THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WON THIS COMPETITION ARE MOSTLY WHITE,
WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE PRODUCER BY THE NAME OF EFFIE
BROWN, WHO IS A BLACK WOMAN.
SHE GOT INTO A DEBATE WITH MATT
DAMON ABOUT THE LATEST BLACK PROSTITUTE IS BEING PORTRAYED IN
THE FEATURE FILM.
PROJECT GREENLIGHT IS AN HBO DOCU
SERIES THAT CHRONICLES THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES PROCESS OF
MAKING A MOVIE.
SEASON FOUR OF THE SHOW, PRODUCED BY DAMON AND
BEN AFFLECK, PREMIERED ON SUNDAY NIGHT AFTER A TEN-YEAR HIATUS.
I WILL SHOW YOU THE DEBATE THAT TOOK PLACE AND WE WILL
DISCUSS WHAT HAPPENED AFTERWARDS.
TAKE A LOOK.
>>I WOULD WANT TO URGE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT WHOEVER THIS
DIRECTOR IS, THE WAY THEY ARE GOING TO TREAT THE
CHARACTER OF HARMONY.
AND HER BEING A PROSTITUTE.
THE ONLY BLACK PERSON BEING A HOOKER WHO GETS HIT BY HER
WHITE PIMP.
>>WE BROUGHT UP TO EACH OTHER --
>>NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.
>>I THINK ON THE SURFACE THEY LOOK LIKE ONE THING, BUT
THEY MIGHT GIVE US SOMETHING WE DON'T WANT.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DIVERSITY, YOU DO IT IN THE CASTING OF
THE FILM, NOT IN THE CASTING OF THE SHOW.
>> WOW.
OKAY.
>>SO THAT LAST PART IS WHAT UPSET A LOT OF PEOPLE, BECAUSE
WHEN HE SAID YOU DO IT IN THE CASTING OF THE FILM, NOT THE
CASTING OF THE SHOW, HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE CAST OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE PUTTING THIS FILM TOGETHER, RIGHT?
>>HE IS SAYING IF YOU ARE GOING TO PICK ACTORS, YOU SHOULD SHOW
DIVERSITY IN THE ACTORS.
BEHIND THE SCENES, THE PEOPLE MAKING
THE DECISIONS, YOU SHOULD NOT NECESSARILY HAVE DIVERSITY ON.
I
THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE JUSTIFIABLY WERE LIKE, WHOA, YOU
SHOULD DO EVEN MORE DIVERSITY ON THE DECISION-MAKERS, NOT JUST
THE ACTOTS PLAYING THE ROLES.
THE DECISION-MAKERS ARE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.
>> RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY SHAPE THE STORYLINE, THEY SHAPE EVERY
SINGLE PART OF THE FINAL PRODUCT, SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO
HAVE DIVERSITY ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
RACE IN A SITUATION INVOLVING A PROSTITUTE AND A PIMP, RIGHT?
THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF MATTERS THAT DIVERSITY WOULD REALLY HELP
WITH BEHIND THE SCENES, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU
ARE SENSITIVE TO DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW, DIFFERENT
PERSPECTIVES.
HIS REACTION TO THAT WAS ACTUALLY PRETTY
SURPRISING TO ME.
>>I'M ENORMOUSLY BIASED IN FAVOR OF MATT DAMON, HE APPEARS TO BE
A SOLID PROGRESSIVE, I DON'T KNOW HIM FROM ADAM.
BASED ON HIS
PUBLIC COMMENTS -- HE HAD SOME GREAT DIGS ON SARAH PALIN THAT I
HAVE ENJOYED IN THE PAST, AND BUSH AND ALL THAT STUFF.
I WANT
TO LIKE HIM AND BE ON HIS SIDE, ULTIMATELY AT THE END OF THE
STORY I WAS.
BUT I THINK IN THE BEGINNING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT
YOU GO, EVEN IF YOU ARE A LIBERAL OR PROGRESSIVE YOU MIGHT
HAVE SOME ASSUMPTIONS THAT ARE TO BE QUESTIONED.
IF YOU ASSUME
THAT THERE SHOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE DIVERSITY
BEHIND THE SCENES, SOMEBODY SHOULD QUESTION THAT ASSUMPTION.
I THINK SHE DID A GREAT JOB OF BRINGING THAT TO LIGHT.
LUCKILY
AT THE END, I THINK MATT DAMON AGREED WITH THAT.
>>HE DID.
LET ME CLARIFY ONE OTHER THING.
THIS SHOW IS BASED
ON A COMPETITION, AND THE MOST TALENTED FILMMAKERS GET CHOSEN
TO PUT THIS FEATURE LENGTH FILM TOGETHER.
AND JUST TO PLAY
DEVILS ADVOCATE, ONE MIGHT LOOK AT DAMON'S ARGUMENT AND SAY
OKAY, THAT IS NOT WHAT HE REALLY MEANT.
WHAT HE MEANT IS, WE
DON'T WANT TO JUST FOCUS ON RACE WHEN IT COMES TO CHOOSING THESE
FILMMAKERS FOR THE SHOW, WE WANT TO FOCUS MORE ON MERIT BECAUSE
THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT.
WHEN YOU START FOCUSING ON RACE AND ONLY
RACE, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING THAT COULD BE
DETERMINED AS, YOU KNOW, DISCRIMINATORY, I GUESS?
>>LOOK, THAT IS WHY IT IS A SUPER INTERESTING CONVERSATION,
BECAUSE THERE IS NOT AN EASY ANSWER.
IT IS NUANCED.
SO IF YOU
SAY WE WILL DO A QUOTA, FOUR SEASONS OF PROJECT GREENLIGHT,
SO ONE OF THE SEASONS HAS TO BE A BLACK DIRECTOR, ANOTHER HAS TO
BE A LATINO DIRECTOR, TWO HAVE TO BE WOMEN -- NOBODY ACTUALLY
SAYS THAT.
THAT IS USUALLY A FRAMING THAT THE RIGHT WING USES
TO MAKE FUN OF LOOKING AT DIVERSITY.
DO WE THINK WE SHOULD
PICK BASED ON MERIT?
OF COURSE WE DO.
EXAMPLE, WE HAVE AN
ENORMOUSLY DIVERSE CAST HERE ON AIR, OFF AIR, AND IT CAME
TOGETHER 100% ORGANICALLY BECAUSE WE DID NOT DISCRIMINATE,
WE THINK WHOEVER IS THE BEST AND IT TURNS OUT TO BE INCREDIBLY
RACIALLY DIVERSE.
SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T HAPPEN ORGANICALLY, AND
I THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY LET'S LOOK A LITTLE DEEPER.
FOR
EXAMPLE, THE NFL HAS A RULE THAT IF YOU ARE INTERVIEWING HEAD
COACHES, SINCE AFRICAN-AMERICANS WERE HISTORICALLY DISCRIMINATED
AGAINST IN THAT PARTICULAR POSITION, YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST
INTERVIEW ONE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO HIRE ANYBODY,
JUST GIVE THEM A FAIR SHOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN DENIED A FAIR
SHOT HISTORICALLY.
IT IS AN INTERESTING TOPIC TO BRING UP, I
WISH HE WASN'T AS DEFENSIVE ABOUT IT IN THE BEGINNING.
IN
THE END WE ARE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO DISAGREE.
YOU WANT TO
PICK THE BEST DIRECTOR.
OF COURSE, THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SHOW IS
TO PICK THE BEST DIRECTOR.
AS LONG AS YOU GIVE EVERYBODY AN
OPPORTUNITY.
MY GUESS IS IF YOU HAVE THE FULL CONVERSATION WITH
HIM, HE WOULD AGREE.
MAYBE I AM BEING BIASED ON HIS BEHALF BUT THAT IS MY SENSE
OF HIM, ESPECIALLY BASED ON HIS COMMENTS.
>>HE TALKED TO ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY ABOUT THIS WHOLE DEBACLE
AND HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
I BELIEVE DEEPLY THAT THERE NEED
TO BE MORE DIVERSE FILMMAKERS MAKING MOVIES.
I LOVE MAKING
MOVIES.
IT'S WHAT I HAVE CHOSEN TO DO WITH MY LIFE AND I WANT
EVERY YOUNG PERSON WATCHING PROJECT GREENLIGHT TO BELIEVE
THAT FILMMAKING IS A VIABLE FORM OF CREATIVE EXPRESSION FOR THEM
TOO.
MY COMMENTS WERE PART OF A MUCH BROADER CONVERSATION ABOUT
DIVERSITY IN HOLLYWOOD AND THE FUNDAMENTAL NATURE OF PROJECT
GREENLIGHT WHICH DID NOT MAKE THE SHOW.
I AM SORRY THAT THEY
OFFENDED SOME PEOPLE, BUT, AT THE VERY LEAST, I AM HAPPY THAT
THEY STARTED A CONVERSATION ABOUT DIVERSITY IN HOLLYWOOD.
THAT IS AN ONGOING CONVERSATION THAT WE ALL SHOULD BE HAVING.
>> WE NOW GO TO OUR AFRICAN-AMERICAN CORRESPONDENT, WHO
WE PICKED BECAUSE OF DIVERSITY CONSIDERATIONS.
HE WAS THE ONLY
PERSON DIVERSE ENOUGH TO SHOW UP IN MY LIVING ROOM WHEN WE
STARTED THE SHOW 13 YEARS AGO.
THAT IS ACTUALLY JESUS, JAYAR
SHOWED UP A LITTLE AFTER THE LIVING ROOM WHEN WE MOVED INTO A
2 X 2 OFFICE.
JAYAR, WHAT'S UP?
>>WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
MATT DAMON, TOTALLY RACIST BY
THE WAY.
[LAUGHTER] IT'S JUST, I THINK THE PROBLEM IS, PEOPLE CAN
BE LIBERAL OR PROGRESSIVE OR EXCEPTING OF EVERYONE WHO THEY
ARE, NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF POTENTIALLY RACIST OVERTONES TO
THEM, BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, A MATTER OF IGNORANCE,
CLUELESSNESS, AND MISSING THE POINT.
WHEN PEOPLE SAY YOU NEED
DIVERSITY FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY, THAT IS WHY A LOT OF
PEOPLE IN THESE POSITIONS OF POWER AND PRIVILEGE GET UPSET,
BECAUSE THEY ARE LIKE, WHO CARES?
I DON'T WANT TO JUST HIRE
ANYONE, WHICH EVERYONE CAN AGREE TO.
BUT THE POINT OF DOING WHAT
YOU WERE DOING, ESPECIALLY CREATIVE, SHOW YOU TO THE
WORLD, IS THE REASON FOR DIVERSITY IS SO YOU CAN HAVE
OTHER VOICES THAT HAVE EXPERIENCES THAT YOU DON'T HAVE,
AND SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T SEE.
REMEMBER THE JON STEWART THING
AND THE WYATT CENAC THING, AND HE WAS LIKE THIS COULD LOOK LIKE
THIS, JUST SO YOU KNOW.
AND HE IS SO USED TO BEING MR.
LIBERAL,
HE GOT UPSET ABOUT IT.
I DIDN'T SEE IT THAT WAY, IT DOESN'T MEAN
YOU HAVE TO SLIT YOUR THROAT AND JUMP OUT THE WINDOW.
JUST RELAX,
NOBODY IS CALLING YOU ANY NAMES.
IF YOU JUST LISTEN, WE HAVE SUCH
A PROBLEM LISTENING TO ANYONE ELSE THAT WHEN SHE IS MAKING HER
POINT, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO I DIDN'T SEE IT THAT WAY.
THERE
ARE THINGS I DON'T SEE A CERTAIN WAY BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN I AM A
BAD PERSON.
JUST RELAX.
THERE ARE SO MANY, WE ASSUME SO MANY
THINGS JUST BECAUSE YOU MAY BE WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING.
YOU COULD
BE WRONG, YOU CAN MOVE ON, YOU CAN CHANGE IT.
THE POINT OF
HAVING SOMEONE ELSE IN THAT ROOM IS TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMETHING
DOESN'T COME OUT THE WAY YOU DON'T WANT TO, AND LATER YOU ARE
APOLOGIZING GOING, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING THAT.
SOMEONE CAN SEE IT BEFORE YOU DO.
>>WHAT DID HE SAY?
>>IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, JAYAR MAKES A GOOD POINT THERE.
I
THINK WE ARE ALL GUILTY OF IT.
I AM.
YOU GET DEFENSIVE WHEN
SOMEONE CALLS YOU OUT ON SOMETHING YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT.
YOUR HUMAN NATURE IS TO IMMEDIATELY DENY YOU ARE DOING
SOMETHING WRONG AND DEFEND YOURSELF, BUT IF YOU TAKE A STEP
BACK AND UNDERSTAND THEIR POINT OF VIEW, YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY
LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN IMPROVE.
>> WE ALL GET IT TOO.
I WILL GO BACK TO LIKING MATT DAMON, I DON'T KNOW WHY IT
WAS, AS THEY SAY, A FULL THROATED DEFENSE --
>>I HATE THAT.
>>THAT IS THE WORST TERM EVER.
BUT YOU CAN ALSO SEE IN THAT
MOMENT IT IS HARD NOT TO GET DEFENSIVE.
WAIT, WHAT DO YOU
MEAN?
THAT'S WHY AGAIN AT THE END HE SAYS I AM GLAD I BROUGHT
THAT ISSUE UP, WHEN HE HAD A MOMENT TO REFLECT AND THINK
ABOUT IT.
HE WINDS UP BEING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ISSUE.
JUST CALM DOWN, JAYAR.
THAT'S IT, FROM NOW ON I'M NOT
LISTENING TO YOU AT ALL.