We’re here with Ken and Steven, both residents of Washington DC, and we’re in Hide/Seek.
What do you gentlemen think of the exhibition?
So far, it's fantastic.
Love it so far.
So you're both familiar with the controversy surrounding the exhibition and the fact that
the David Wojnarowicz video was pulled from the show.
What are your thoughts on that?
I think it's sad that certain factions of our government feel the right to protect ourselves
from seeing things that are artistic and beautiful, and that they can’t realize that everyone
has a different approach at life and viewing the arts.
If it were offensive to ninety-nine percent of Americans, perhaps there should be more
oversight.
But when it is clearly so one-sided and is really just for a political approach, you
would think that the Smithsonian would be able to have the courage to step back and
say, you know what, we're going to stand with the artist here.
I was sad to see the piece go, but I’m also proud that the museum had the courage to put
the exhibit out there in the first place because everyone knows that this is the first time
in American history that we have had an exhibit like this.
Definitely learning a lot about our history and I'm enjoying it so far, so.
It’s very different.
It wasn't anything I was expecting.
I actually came here for the Elvis and wandered in here.
And it’s a little shocking but once you get into it, you can…
I think was very well done.
I heard that there was controversy.
I don't know much about piece that was pulled.
What are your thoughts on that?
Pulling an object of art to placate part of the public.
Well, I guess I have mixed feelings about it.
On the one hand, I think that controversial art is partially what art is about; being…provoking
comment.
I do think though that if it keeps people from being able to see other pieces that can
be difficult.
So there's a fine line.
Actually I was very surprised that it was being pulled.
This is the nation's capital.
I would assume that if… anything that they brought here was something that the people
needed to see.
So I was disappointed that I wasn't able to see it.
I haven't seen it yet.
I know that it is in another gallery currently.
I hope to see it.
But overall I'm very, very pleased at the whole Hide/Seek exhibit.
This is actually my fourth time coming.
And I brought – every time I bring a different set of friends.
And everybody is very happy that the nation's capital actually has an exhibit like this
because some cities won’t do anything like this.
What's your favorite object that you’ve seen in the show?
I actually don't remember the name of it but its two men that are sitting together and
because their body positioning, they look as if they're just best friends.
But if you look a little bit closer you'll notice that their hands are actually touching
so that you can tell that their lovers.
It’s kind of you can tell they're in a relationship, that they love each other, but they're not
throwing it into everybody's face.
So it's a very nice portrait of the two of them.
So far I’ve enjoyed it.
I’ve noticed some things about gender and sexuality, and I enjoy when people kind of
push those boundaries in art, like using artistic expression to do that and to bring up issues.
It’s art.
It’s what it is, you know.
If it’s offensive, don't go look at it.
So change the channel?
Exactly.
I mean, there's an awful lot that’s offensive to me that I don’t protest, you know, so.
It was fantastic.
I actually came because of the reviews and sort of the controversy that was coming as
a result of it.
And I was actually surprised at how much the controversy was just rather than just looking
at the show as whole.
It’s sorry to see that the one piece created so much controversy because as a whole the
show is just absolutely fantastic.
I think it's perfect timing to have a show like this talking about sexuality because,
you know, with Don't Ask Don't Tell, you know, discussion about DOMA [Defense of Marriage
Act], and that's sort of thing, you know, legislation being passed within the states
for same-sex rights, it's important to have something like this that's been, you know,
this sort of discussion and dialogue has been happening in the art world for a while and
it’s sort of been largely ignored in the mainstream work, you know.
You talk to people like Andy Warhol where people largely ignored that fact and just
saw something other than, you know, Andy Warhol’s sexuality or something like that.
So it's good to see something for where the main premise of it is discussion about sexuality.
What was your favorite subject or your favorite work in the show?
I'm personally a Keith Haring fan, so it was good to see his unfinished work.
I'd actually never seen that piece personally, so it's good to see that.
And then also being from Pittsburgh I'm kind of biased towards Andy Warhol.
We have a pretty nice collection of his downtown.
So it was good to see both of them but there is a lot of photography that I had never seen
before, a lot of artists that I had never heard of before.
So it was definitely a new and unique experience for sure.
We’re here with Ellen.
Ellen, you said you had heard about to the controversy of the National Portrait Gallery
pulling the David Wojnarowicz video?
Yeah, I knew there was at least one piece here that had been taken, removed after there'd
been some complaints about it.
What where your thoughts on that?
I'm kind of disappointed.
Now I have to tell you that I haven't seen it so I don't know what was in it, but it
seems to me that if we're going to protect the idea that free speech and what not that
it should be here, and if people don’t want to see it they don't have to watch it when
they come through.
And Ellen, are you okay with the subject matter of the show?
I am.
I don't have any problem with it.
I think it's interesting to look at the history and to see from more hidden to more open.
Just watching how things changed.
Do you have a favorite piece so far you've seen?
No, not really, nothing yet, nothing has really jumped out at me.
I did like the [Arrow?]
advertising.
I like that era.
But I never would've looked at it before and seen the smaller messages in it, the little
details on it before now.
Thank you so much for your time, Ellen, we're very grateful for your comments.
Thank you.
I haven't seen the entire exhibit yet but so far it's wonderful.
There's a wonderful collection here and some of my favorite pieces all in one room so that's
nice.
We're glad to hear that.
Now, you’re aware of the controversy surrounding the removal the Wojnarowicz video.
What do you think of that?
I thought it was a dreadful shame.
I thought that the politicization of that particular piece within the context of this
exhibit and the fact that one man who has a loud voice in a tiny group was able to sort
of collect enough political outrage from enough politically powerful people that that piece
could be removed.
And I emailed a number of people at the Smithsonian to express my outrage.
I live in San Francisco but I used to live in DC.
I’m back visiting and obviously wanted to come see the exhibit myself.
We're glad you're here.
What's your favorite work inside the show?
So far, still one of my favorites, the Romaine Brooks self-portrait.
I, whenever I'm back in DC, I come to visit it.
Thanks for talking with us, [inaudible].
Thank you.
I think it's fabulous.
I think it's long overdue.
And I came down to Washington specifically to see this show.
I've only seen about a quarter of it so far.
I'm enjoying the labels.
And it's just it's a great show.
I'm impressed that the National Portrait Gallery supported the project, and dismayed by the
fuss that’s been churned up around it.
But overall impressed that they stood behind the project.
What I didn't expect is to see that the art is just incredible.
I mean it's the art that I'm much more passionate about.
It's not really that it's gay or straight or whatever.
It's really more that the exhibition itself, the art, it's just fantastic.
I’m slowly working my way around and I think it's… it’s really neat to have this to
publicly recognized.
I guess like to have gay artists and lesbian artists publicly recognized and have it put
together as one exhibition from all different parts of the museum and different museums.
Well, I've very much enjoyed it so far.
I’ve been around this half of it.
Can't wait to see the more modern works.
Zoe, how about you?
Yeah, no I really like this exhibition.
It’s great.
How many times have you seen this?
This is the third I’ve come to this.
So you know about the controversy where the video Fire in my Belly was pulled.
What are your thoughts on that?
I was outraged when I heard about it at first.
And I started petitioning at my university, Occidental College, and sending out like links
to the online petition to have the piece brought back.
And I've been following the guy who brought in the video and, you know, various talks
by the curator.
And yeah I'm very upset and disappointed that the piece can’t be here.
You know, as an artist, I not only… for me, good art is art that creates an emotional
reaction.
And even if that reaction is bad, that’s no… that’s art.
And so I think I kind of see that here, too, as well, that even though there’s been a
lot of reaction and people are angry, in a way as an artist, I’m like alright, that’s
great, like, stir it up.
You know, Let’s talk about it.
Yeah.
We're here with Steve.
Steve, what do you think of the exhibition Hide/Seek?
I think it's a fabulous exhibition and I'm really happy that the Smithsonian and the
Portrait Gallery put it on.
Well obviously it's public money, so members of Congress are going to have some views about
it.
However, I don't think that because one tiny element of society makes a… you know, has
a complaint that something should automatically get shut down with lightning speed, which
is what happened in this case.
I think, you know, every aspect of society we’re all taxpayers, we all deserve to be
represented in museums like this and to single out one group and say, you know, that’s
controversial and cut the funding it seems to be very unfair.
This is John.
John, where are you from?
Washington DC.
And what do you think of the exhibition Hide/Seek?
Well, as I was saying a moment ago, this is very intimate and it's very lovely and I didn't
find anything about it that was extremely controversial or off putting.
It was just very, very sweet, and it brings the viewer into all of the images whether
their photography or paintings or any of the media.
It just it feels very, very close and very human.
You used the phrase a moment ago the American landscape.
How do you see the works in the show fitting in to…?
Well, it just seems to me that is a part of all of our history as Americans whether you're
gay or straight or whatever your orientation is or your belief and where it comes from.
It was very nice to see this as a part of who we are as Americans and how parts of our
society were presented through that from the twenties and thirties the forties.
And this is obviously a part of our life and it's part of all of our lives.