- I was beaten with a Bible
and told that I needed to repent the demon of homosexuality
and expel him from my body.
- Wow, if I heard someone was beatin' my kid with a book,
I would've beat them with a book.
(laughing)
(light music)
- Hello.
- My name's Marcus, what's your name?
- Jules.
- I'm Annie.
- Nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you, too.
- What are we here to talk about?
- Do you know what coming out of the closet means?
- A kid in the closet playing hide and go seek,
and then it's coming out of it.
- Not literally, but that's actually a really good metaphor.
Coming out of the closet means that you reveal
to other people something about yourself
that's been a secret.
This is more often than not used for people who are gay,
lesbian, bisexual, or transgender.
Have you ever met a gay person before?
- I think I have met somebody who is,
but they're my age.
- Have you ever known any LGBTQ kids?
- My sister.
- Oh, wow. - She started dating a girl,
and I was like oh, okay, she's nice,
I can get used to this, no it's fine.
Of course it probably wasn't our parents' first option.
- Right. - And stuff like that,
but they were there for her.
- That's really wonderful and good to hear.
- I do attend church, and I'm Presbyterian.
I don't agree with homosexuality, but it doesn't mean
I don't have friends and family that I love and respect
and adore who are.
- Sure. - So I believe
it's their choice.
- Where did you get that idea that, I guess,
that it's a choice.
- I didn't ever really have that exact idea.
- Oh yeah, there you go. - Oh, okay.
I think it depends.
If you're born into the world, and you know you're different
at such a young age, then yeah, but if they're 25,
they've been straight all their lives,
and then they realize oh, I'm kind of diggin' girls now,
you can change that.
- So there's a lot you can lose in coming out.
You can lose your friends, you can lose your family.
- Yeah. - Your home.
There's all these things that create fear.
So you just been forever avoiding it.
It can be a long time before you're willing to accept it.
When you were coming out of the closet,
how was people reacting when they heard that you were gay?
- I first came out to myself when I was 13.
My family, unfortunately, wasn't very supportive.
I was sent to my grandfather's, and he and his church
put me through conversion therapy to try to change me.
Have you ever heard of conversion therapy?
- I think.
- What does conversion or convert mean?
- Try to switch someone's mind or...
- Correct, actually.
The intent of this is to get the person to change.
It's to make them not be gay anymore.
- So, in conversions therapy, you go to this place
where they're trying to change how your personality
and how you are.
- Correct. - That would just be
pure mean.
- They're trying to make you like girls again?
- Mm-hmm. - For some reason.
- Yeah, and the reason why is because, unfortunately,
a lot of people don't like gay people
because maybe their religion tells them not to.
Did you grow up in a religious environment?
- Yeah, I am religious, but it's not meant to hate everybody
because hate's not gonna get you anywhere in the world.
God gave us a choice, my choice is to love.
- That is powerful.
You're a very, very, very enlightened kid.
- Can I ask you what techniques were used
during your therapy?
- First, I was forced to do manual labor
in the yard from sun up to sunset
while repeating bible passages.
I was told that my friends were all going to die
of AIDS, that I was going to die of AIDS.
I was beaten with a bible and told that I needed
to repent the demon of homosexuality and expel him
from my body. - Wow, if I heard someone
was beatin' my kid with a book,
I would beat them with a book.
(laughing)
- I was not allowed to communicate with anybody.
I couldn't even talk to my mom on the phone.
- How old were you when that happened?
- I was 14. - 14?
That's actually pretty young for that.
- Yes, the more I was resistant to what they were trying
to do, the abuse increased to what's called forced fasting,
which is just a polite way of saying that I was starved.
- That's just wrong.
- It is, it's very wrong.
- Which one of those was actually the one
that you felt the worst about?
- It was the loneliness.
Part of conversion therapy,
before any physical abuse starts,
it's all about breaking down your spirit,
it's all about breaking down your mind and,
unfortunately, oftentimes, it's successful.
- When that happened, were you faking like it was working
so that they wouldn't abuse you anymore
or to try to stop it?
- No.
The reason why is because I didn't think
that there was anything wrong with me.
The worst thing that you can do is deny who you are,
and that goes for anything, because you like...
Do you like Dr. Who?
- Yes. - Let's say a lot
of other people don't, and let's say all of your classmates
said we're not gonna be your friend
because you like Dr. Who, but if you say
that Dr. Who is stupid, we'll be your friend.
Would you do that?
- Well I'd not stop 'cause I just love watching Dr. Who.
- Exactly, so I don't believe in lying about yourself
to make other people happy.
I just stayed true to who I was.
- That's really clever.
- Thank you. (laughing)
- Could you give me some tips or something?
- I can. - To be a good friend
to my friend?
- The biggest one is just to be a friend, be there,
because coming out, it's still so scary,
and it's confusing, and sometimes that journey takes
a really long time to get there.
- To this day, do you feel at peace with yourself?
- I do.
If someone said tomorrow, oh here's a pill
l to make you straight, I woudlnt do it.
I love being gay, I wouldn't change it.
- That's good. (laughing)
- Hi, I'm Marcus James, thanks for watching Kids Meet.
To find out more about me or to read books,
click on the link below, and if you or someone you know
is in danger of going through an experience
in conversion therapy, check out the resources down below.