( BAND PLAYING ) >> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY!
WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW!
MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT IS A FORMER TRUMP AIDE, WHOSE NEW
BOOK, "TEAM OF VIPERS," HAS BEEN MAKING HEADLINES ALL MONTH.
PLEASE WELCOME, CLIFF SIMS!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Stephen: CONGRATULATIONS.
IS THIS YOUR FIRST BOOK?
>> FIRST BOOK.
FIRST AND ONLY, PROBABLY.
>> Stephen: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.
>> WE'LL SEE.
>> Stephen: THERE YOU GO.
IT'S "TEAM OF VIPERS."
THAT'S A HELL OF A TITLE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF PLAY ON "TEAM OF RIVALS" ABOUT
LINCOLN'S CABINET.
WHAT MAKES THE PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP THE MOST VIPEROUS?
>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
IT'S AN INTERESTING MIX, NO OUT THE ABOUT THAT.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IS YOU HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE THRUST TOGETHER
WHO CAME IN AND HAD THEIR OWN BEST INTERESTS IN MIND.
>> Stephen: RATHER THAN THE INTERESTS OF THE NATION OR THE
PRESIDENT?
>> AS A STAFFER, YOU'D LIKE TO THINK THOSE THINGS ARE
CONGRUENT, I'M GOING TO SERVE MY NATION BY SERVING MY PRESIDENT.
I THINK YOU HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO CAME IN,
SOMETIMES I WAS ONE OF THEM, WHO GOT WRAPPED UP IN THE GAME WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE PROXIMITY TO POWER, ACCESS TO THE MOST
POWERFUL MAN ON THE PLANET.
>> Stephen: GAINING ACCESS AND FREEZING PEOPLE OUT?
>> YES.
>> Stephen: SO YOU'RE ONE OF THE VIPERS?
>> YES.
>> Stephen: SO IS THIS A CONFESSION AS MUCH AS ANSWER
ACCUSATION?
>> WELL, IF I'M GOING TO BE HONEST ABOUT EVERYBODY THERE
FROM THE PRESIDENT TO THE STAFF AND EVERYBODY ELSE --
>> Stephen: AND THAT'S A BIG "IF" IN THAT ADMINISTRATION.
>> -- I'VE GOT TO BE WILLING TO TO BE HONEST ABOUT MYSELF, TOO.
SO I SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THINGS I WISH I HAD DONE
DIFFERENTLY.
>> Stephen: WHAT'S THE MOST DAMNING THING YOU HAVE TO SAY
ABOUT YOURSELF.
>> IN FRONT OF THE NATION.
>> Stephen: IN THE BOOK, HOW ABOUT THAT?
>> RUTHLESS, COWARDLY, SELF SERVING.
>> Stephen: WHERE WAS YOUR COWARDICE?
>> WHEN I DIDN'T SPEAK UP.
AND MY BIGGEST REGRET OF ALL IS I WAS NOT ALWAYS A PICTURE OF MY
FAITH TO THE PEOPLE I WAS AROUND.
>> Stephen: BECAUSE YOU'RE A COMMITTED CHRISTIAN.
>> I AM, YEAH.
>> Stephen: LET'S START SMALL.
OKAY.
>> Stephen: WHAT WAS YOUR OFFICIAL ROLE IN THE WHITE
HOUSE?
>> I WAS DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE STRATEGY, WHICH ESSENTIALLY IS
CREATING THE TALKING POINTS MANY IN MESSAGING THAT COMES OUT OF
THE WHITE HOUSE ON ANYTHING, PROBABLY THE BEST EXAMPLE WOULD
BE TAX REFORM.
HOW WILL WE SELL THE PRESIDENT'S TAX REFORM PLAN TO THE NATION.
I WAS PART OF THE TEAM THAT DID THAT.
>> Stephen: ARE YOU PART OF THE TEAM THAT SAID IT WILL PAY
FOR IT ITSELF IN A YEAR?
THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TOLD AND THAT IS NOT -- WHAT'S THE
WORD -- TRUE.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ER WERE YOU ON THAT?
>> I WILL SAY I DON'T REMEMBER THAT BEING A PART OF THE
OFFICIAL TALKING POINT.
>> Stephen: REAL WILL YOU?
THE PRESIDENT REPORTEDLY IS HOPPING MAD ABOUT YOUR BOOK AND
FEELS DUPED.
DID YOU DUPE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?
YOU WORKED FOR HIM 500 DAYS.
WHEN DID YOU START WRITING THIS BOOK?
HOW LONG BEFORE YOU QUIT DID YOU START WRITING IT?
>> I DIDN'T START WRITING IT UNTIL A COUPLE OF MONTHS AFTER I
LEFT.
>> Stephen: FAST WRITING.
IT'S ONLY BEEN IN THERE 738 DAYS.
>> I WROTE IT IN TWO MONTHS.
IT WAS KIND OF A CATHARTIC EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I WANTED TO
NOT ONLY TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT HERE'S AN HONEST ASSESSMENT
ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THERE.
I'M NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU TO BE FOR HIM OR AGAINST, I WILL
GIVE YOU THE FACTS.
IT WAS ALSO I WANTED TO COME TO TERMS WITH WHAT THAT PERIOD OF
TIME FOR MY LIFE MEANT FOR ME.
I SAT ON THE COUCH TWO SOLID MONTHS, DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE
AND I WROTE DAY AFTER DAY.
>> Stephen: WHAT DO YOU THINK THE 500 DAYS' PERIOD OF YOUR
LIFE HAVE MEANT FOR THE NATION?
NOT THAT YOU AREN'T IMPORTANT, BUT 325 MILLION PEOPLE OUT THERE
HAVING BEEN AFFECTED BY HAVING THIS MAN AFFECTED.
ARE YOU STILL ON THE TRUMP TRAIN?
>> AT THIS POINT, NOT BEING IN THERE ANYMORE, WHEN SHE'S DOING
THINGS I SUPPORT I'M ABLE TO BE FOR IT, AND WHEN HE DOES THINGS
I DON'T, I'M ABLE TO BE AGAINST IT.
IT'S FUN TO BE ON THE OUTSIDE AND NOT DEFEND EVERY SINGLE
THING.
BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE NATION, I COULD SAY IT'S
PROBABLY MIXED.
I THINK THE ECONOMIC GROWTH IS GREAT.
I THINK HE DESERVES CREDIT FOR PULLING US OUT OF SOME OF THESE
FOREIGN ENGAGEMENTS PRESIDENT AFTER PRESIDENT PROMISED TO DO
AND HADN'T.
SO I THINK HE'S TRYING TO KEEP HIS PROMISES, THAT'S GENUINE.
>> Stephen: THOUGH HE HASN'T DONE IT.
HE ANNOUNCED IT WITHOUT CONSULTING THE PENTAGON.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) HE'S TALKING A VERY GOOD GAME
AND ALARMING PEOPLE AROUND HIM, LIKE GENERAL MATTIS QUIT BECAUSE
OF THE WAY HE ANNOUNCED THAT.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S STILL A GOOD WAY FOR HEM TO HAVE DONE IT?
DO YOU THINK THAT WAS LEADERSHIP?
>> WHAT'S THAT?
>> Stephen: THE ANNOUNCEMENT OVER SYRIA, THE WAY THAT WAS
HANDLED.
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FRUSTRATED ME THE
TIME I WAS THERE, HE HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS SYRIA THING
FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS, AND WANTING TO DO IT AND GIVING
DIRECTIVES TO DO IT, AND HE'S SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE AT THE
HIGHEST LEVELS WHO MAKE IT THEIR MISSION TO SLOW WALK AND SUBVERT
WHAT HE'S DOING, AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE WOULD SAY, WELL,
THANK GOD THEY'RE IN THERE.
I WOULD SAY TO THAT WHAT KIND OF PRECEDENT DOES IT SET THAT
SOMEHOW IT'S NOW PATRIOTIC TO UNDERMINE THE DULY ELECTED
PRESIDENT THAT YOU SERVE.
AS A STAFFER, YOU MENTIONED MATTIS, I THINK IT'S HONORABLE
THE WAY THAT JIM MATTIS QUIT, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE IF YOU
DISAGREE WITH THE GUY, YOU ALWAYS HAVE AN OPTION -- YOU
EITHER GET ON BOARD ONCE HE MAKES A DECISION AND TRY TO
IMPLEMENT IT OR QUIT.
>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK MORE PEOPLE SHOULD DO THAT?
LIKE KELLYANNE CONWAY, YOU SAY YOU CAUGHT HER LEAKING, THAT SHE
WAS A BIG LEAKER, TRUMP THOUGHT SHE WAS A BIG LEAKER, SHE HAD TO
WRITE SOMETHING SAYING I'M NOT A BIG LEAKER.
WHAT DID YOU CATCH HER DOING?
>> SHE CALLS ME UPSTAIRS TO WRITE A RESPOND TO SOME SHOW
HOSTS THAT WERE SAYING OFF AIR SHE WAS TRASHING THE PRESIDENT
AND WANTED ME TO HELP HER CRAFT A RESPONSE TO THAT.
I'M SITTING ON HER APPLE LAPTOP IN HER OFFICE TRYING TO TYPE
THIS UP AND SHE FORGETS SHE'S SITTING THERE AT HER DESK TYPING
ON HER iPhone WHICH IS SYNCED TO HER COMPUTER.
NOT GOOD, STEPHEN, NOT GOOD.
IT'S A GREAT LESSON.
NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS FROM SYNCED I MESSAGES.
I'M WATCHING HER TALK TO REPORTER AFTER REPORTER, TRASH
HER COLLEAGUES AND NOT PAINT THE PRESIDENT IN A FAVORABLE LIGHT,
AND I'M SUPPOSED TO BE WRITING A STATEMENT DEFENDING HER WHAT
SHE'S DOING IN THAT MOMENT.
>> Stephen: WHY WON'T HE FIRE HER OR TRASH HER PUBLICLY?
MAKES NO SENSE.
HE'LL ATTACK ANYONE.
WHY NOT MER?
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I TRY TO DO IN THIS BOOK IS HELP PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND WHAT MAKES DONALD TRUMP TIFNLGT ONE THING THAT
NEVER GOES OUT OF STYLE IN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE IS SOMEONE
WHO'S WILLING TO GO ON TV AND FIGHT IT OUT.
HE KNOWS SHE WILL GO OUT THERE ON ANY SHOW AND DEFEND HIM.
LIKE I SAID, NEVER GOES OUT OF STYLE, SO I THINK THAT'S WHY --
>> Stephen: SO PRIVATE LOYALTY DOESN'T MATTER BUT PUBLIC
LOYALTY ON TELEVISION IS MORE IMPORTANT?
>> I THINK THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT PUBLIC LOYALTY TO THE PRESIDENT
IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE TO HIM.
>> Stephen: YOU HELPED HIM COME UP WITH THE ENEMIES LIST,
OKAY, AND YOU REGRET THAT.
WHY DO YOU REGRET THAT?
>> NUMBER ONE, I HAD YOU AT NUMBER TWO ON THE LIST.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( PIANO RIFF )
>> Stephen: WELL, WE'VE GOT TO GO.
>> OKAY.
>> Stephen: CONGRATULATIONS TO YOUR BOOFNLGT THANKS FOR BEING
HERE.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Stephen: ENJOY.
YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE MORE.
THERE WILL BE THE ONE YOU HAVE TO WRITE AFTER YOU STOP BEING ON
THE RUN.
( LAUGHTER ) "TEAM OF VIPERS" IS IN STORES
TOMORROW.
CLIFF SIMS, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH THE GREAT PAUL SIMON.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )