AS I MENTIONED OFF THE TOP, SOME STRANGE SIGNS ARE PILING UP, EVEN AS HE GETS HARDER AND
HARDER TO FIND PEOPLE IN MASKS.
IN FACT, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME
YOU SAW THE GOVERNOR STANDING
SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE STATE’S
CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER? I TURN
AGAIN AS I HAVE SO OFTEN TO DR
JIM BAKKER, ROUTE PROFESSOR, AN
IMMUNOLOGIST AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF MICHIGAN. DR BAKER. THANKS
FOR COMING IN THIS MORNING. I
MENTIONED CHARLIE LEDUFF COLUMN
TO YOU. I KNOW YOU READ IT. HE
POINTED OUT SOME WEIRD ANOMALIES
. WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT?
WHAT WE’RE FINDING IS FINDING IS
THAT THE RATES OF DEATH ASCRIBED
THE COVID OR EVEN FACT A LITTLE
HIGHER THAN THEY WERE A YEAR
AGO. DESPITE ALL THE MEASURES WE
HAVE TO CARE FOR IT BUT IT’S
BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC SECULAR
CHANGED. WE ACTUALLY HAVE AT
LEAST 10 TIMES AS MANY
INFECTIONS RIGHT NOW, AS WE HAD
A YEAR AGO. WE ARE COUNTING THEM
ACTUALLY TO BE ACCURATE. AND
EVERYBODY TESTING AT HOME. DO
YOU FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A REAL
HANDLE ON HOW MANY CASES THERE
ARE AT ALL? NO AND IF YOU TALK
TO PEOPLE RIGHT NOW, EVERYONE
KNOWS PEOPLE WHO ARE INFECTED
PEOPLE THAT THAT ARE
ASYMPTOMATIC. IT’S ONE IN 20
PEOPLE THAT AREN’T HAVING
SYMPTOMS THAT ARE COMING UP
POSITIVE. IT WAS SO THAT’S A
REMARKABLE NUMBERS. AND JUST THE
CHANCE THAT SOMEONE LIKE THAT.
WOULD GET SICK FROM SOMETHING
ELSE OR DIE IS FAIRLY HIGH, SO
WE’RE SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
HAVE INCIDENTAL INFECTIONS WHEN
THEY DIE, WHEREAS A YEAR AGO
EVERYONE THAT DIED FROM COVID OR
TWO YEARS AGO HAD BED PNEUMONIA
, AND COVID WAS REALLY THE CAUSE
OF DEATH, SO IT’S A DIFFERENT
EQUATION. AND I POINTED OUT SO
MANY TIMES THAT WE UNDERSTAND
THE NATURAL COURSE OF A VIRUS IS
TO BECOME MUCH MORE COMMUNICABLE
AND LESS DEADLY. WHICH IS
EXACTLY WHAT YOU’RE TALKING
ABOUT. EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE
MORE DEATHS, SO MANY MORE CASES
, BUT WHY WOULD MICHIGAN BE
DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF THE
MIDWEST OR THE REST OF THE
COUNTRY? FOR THAT MATTER?
MICHIGAN’S NUMBERS ARE A LITTLE
BIT OUT OF LINE WITH THE REST OF
THE COUNTRY. IF YOU LOOK AT IT
BUT IN FACT, I THINK AGAIN,
THAT’S ACCOUNTING ABNORMALITY.
YEAH, THERE IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF
BENEFIT TO IDENTIFYING ALL
PATIENTS IN HOSPITALS WITH
COVID. FINANCIAL BENEFIT YES,
FINANCIAL BENEFIT, BUT ALSO YOU
KNOW YOU YOU GET BENEFIT FOR THE
PATIENT. THE PATIENT’S FAMILY
ACTUALLY GETS $9000 IF THEY DIE
FROM COVID AS COMPARED TO
SOMETHING ELSE. SO THEY’VE BEEN
VERY CAREFUL AND DOING THESE
NUMBERS. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT
WE AREN’T SEEING AS MANY DEATHS
FROM COVID AS WE HAD A YEAR AGO
, BUT WE’RE DOCUMENTING A LOT
MORE PEOPLE WITH COVID WHO ARE
DYING. HELP ME WITH THAT. $9000
WHERE’S THAT COMING FROM? AND
WHAT IS IT? THERE’S IT’S A WEIRD
INCENTIVE, ISN’T IT? YES IT’S A
IT’S A FEDERAL FUND THAT’S GIVEN
AND IF YOU IDENTIFY A PERSON THE
GOVERNMENT GIVES YOU $9000 TO
BURY THEM. I’M NOT SURE
EVERYBODY IS AWARE OF THAT. I
KNOW A LOT OF FAMILIES HAVE BEEN
THROUGH IT AND ARE UNFORTUNATELY
THIS COURSE THAT WERE THAT WE’VE
BEEN ON RIGHT NOW. OBVIOUSLY
MACRON CHANGED A LOT OF THINGS.
AND THAT’S THE THIS NEW SET OF
NUMBERS WOULD BE MORE WITH
OMICRON. WHAT ARE YOUR WORRIES
RIGHT NOW? ABOUT THE NEXT
ITERATIONS AND THE EVOLVING
SITUATION THAT WE SEE AROUND
COVID. I THINK THERE ARE TWO
WORRIES. I HAVE NUMBER ONE IS
THAT WE COMPLETELY STOPPED. YOUR
MONITORING THE INFECTION, WHICH
WHICH IS NOT A GOOD THING
CLEARLY BECAUSE THE VIRUS HAS
CHANGED AND BECAUSE WE HAVE MUCH
MORE IMMUNITY FROM BOTH
INFECTIONS AND FROM THE
EXPLANATIONS YOU KNOW, WE’RE
MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
BUT THERE IS THE IMPORTANCE TO
SEE WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD TURN
. I THINK RIGHT NOW, MOST OF US
BELIEVE THAT WILL CONTINUE TO
PRODUCE THESE LOW VARIANTS THAT
MAY ESCAPE THE IMMUNITY OF PRIOR
INFECTIONS AND IN FACT PEOPLE
BUT WILL NOT CAUSE SEVERE
DISEASE. BUT WE NEED TO BE
CAREFUL ABOUT THAT. THE OTHER
THING IS WHAT WE DO, MOVING
FORWARD. UM YOU KNOW, THE
PRESIDENT THE OTHER DAY SAID WE
NEED TO PLAN FOR THE NEXT NEXT
PANDEMIC, WHICH I THINK IS
REASONABLE. BUT I DON’T THINK
THE IDEAS WE GO AND BUILD
ANOTHER DARPA. AND CREATE ALL
KINDS OF MECHANICAL SOLUTIONS.
THE FIRST THING WE NEED TO DO IS
LOOK AT THE LESSONS LEARNED FROM
THIS EPISODE. WHAT DID WE DO?
RIGHT? WHAT DID WE DO WRONG,
WHICH WE’VE KNOWN ALL ALONG? WE
WERE ONLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO
WITH GREAT HINDSIGHT BECAUSE IT
WAS SUCH PIONEER WORK THAT
EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT EARLY ON. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
WE WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY NOW, IF
THE NEXT ONE COMES AND WE SHOULD
NOTE BETWEEN MONKEYPOX OUTBREAK
RIGHT NOW, POLIO GOING ON IN THE
UK THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF HEALTH
WORRIES SWIRLING AROUND US RIGHT
NOW. YOU KNOW THIS. THIS WILL
NEVER GO AWAY AND WE’RE MUCH
MORE ADEPT AT MONITORING IT, BUT
WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE
MEDICAL IMPACT OF IT. I THINK
ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN LOOK TO
HIS LOOK AT OTHER COUNTRIES THAT
HAVE MUCH LOWER DEATH RATES AND
JAPAN AS ONE. JAPAN HAS 1/10 THE
DEATH RATE PER CAPITA OF THE U.
S. WHAT DID THEY DO? THEY DIDN’T
SHUT DOWN THEIR SCHOOLS. THEY
DIDN’T SHUT DOWN THEIR
BUSINESSES. CERTAINLY THERE WERE
IMPACTS ON THEIR HEALTH SYSTEM,
BUT THEY ARE A DIFFERENT
POPULATION, AND THEY CONTROL
THEMSELVES DIFFERENTLY. THEY
SEEK MEDICAL CARE EARLIER, THE
MEDICAL CARE IS UNIVERSALLY
AVAILABLE, WHICH HELPS IN THE
THING THAT’S MOST INTERESTING IS
THAT THEY FOCUSED ON JUST A
COUPLE OF THINGS TO CONTROL THE
PANDEMIC. ONE WAS MASKING EARLY
ON AND BEING JAPAN. EVERYONE
MISSED BEFORE THE PANDEMIC EVER
HIT IF YOU NEVER TRAVELED
THROUGH A JAPANESE AIRPORT, YOU
SAW A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MASS LONG
BEFORE IT WAS COOL. RIGHT IT
WAS. IT WAS TRADITIONAL TO WEAR
A MASK. IF YOU FELT YOU HAD A
COMMUNICABLE DISEASE NOT TO KEEP
FROM GETTING SOMETHING, BUT TO
KEEP FROM SPREADING SOMETHING
RIGHT? EXACTLY WHAT ELSE? AND
THE OTHER THING THEY DID WAS
AVOID CONCENTRATED BETS. YOU
KNOW THOSE SUPER SPREADER TYPE
ACTIVITIES WHERE PEOPLE ARE
INSIDE AND POORLY VENTILATED
AREAS AND CONSTRAINS MITT WITH
EACH OTHER. AND THAT’S AMAZING.
THOSE TWO THINGS DONE VERY WELL
CONTROLLED THE EPIDEMIC MUCH
MORE THAN IT WAS HERE, SO I
THINK THAT’S A GOOD GOOD LESSON
, ESPECIALLY AS WE KNOW IT’S NOT
GOING TO BE DEBATED HOTLY.
BECAUSE WE’RE MOVING INTO THE
MIDTERM ELECTIONS. IT’S GOING TO
BE ANOTHER POLITICAL FOOTBALL
ISN’T A TWO POLITICAL THIS IS
NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE MOVING
FORWARD. WE NEED TO HAVE SOME
TYPE OF GENERAL COMMISSION.
THAT’S NON POLITICAL, YOU KNOW.
LOOK AT THE SEE WHAT WE DID
RIGHT AND WRONG AND MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS. MOVING FORWARD
. MILLION LIVES LOST IN THE U. S
37,000 MORE THAN THAT, IN THE
STATE OF MICHIGAN ALONE. IT’S
BEEN TOO MUCH OF A COST. NO
DOUBT IT’S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE
YOU REALLY APPRECIATE THE WAY