- I want to see more stories.
I want to see more diversity on the show.
And I think by having more stories on the show,
it's going to connect even more people.
I would just love to see, like, more of our stories told
in different ways, because clearly
we're slaying the competition.
[LAUGHS]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
So let's talk about the word tokenism,
because a lot of times the word tokenism is used hand-in-hand
with the word representation.
What do you guys think is the difference
or the similarities between tokenism and representation?
Tokenism is that--
it's just being brought there just because they feel
like it should be put there.
Like, oh, we need to check all the boxes off,
you know, make sure this-- we have this, we have that,
we have this, we have that, we have this and that and that.
So just-- it was basically just the representation just
for-- just to have the representation and not really,
like, focus on the actual representation of it.
And the representation is really like getting
to the meat of the people and not just saying, well,
we have this person of color here,
we have this person of color there, but really,
like, delving into who this person is
not just as the skin tone but as a person
and what all they represent.
Because we all represent more than just our skin tones.
And to also piggy-back off of what Heidi was saying,
I think one thing that really distinguishes the two of them
is that tokenism really takes, like,
one individual and places a bunch of different archetypes
and experiences upon that person in order to claim that
the space is being diversified.
If you're actually diversifying something,
you are bringing in so many different experiences,
walks of life, different types of Black
people, different economics statuses.
Like that is part of what diversity means.
It means creating a more enriched experience from people
who come from multiple different backgrounds versus tokenism
which just takes, like, one person
to try and, like, fill a void and appear
as if they are diverse.
Which is so true.
Because I feel like I've done a lot of shows in the past
where you would go and there's like,
you're the Black girl in the show.
And you wonder why like-- why are there no other Black girls
booked in this gig?
And it's like, well, girl we just need the one Black
girl who's going to represent all the Black girls tonight
in the show.
And, like, you happen to be that girl.
You know what I mean?
And-- or sometimes we've not been that girl.
And we've been to shows when you sit in the audience
like, girl, it's funny that every single time
they do a show, there's one Black girl,
and it's that same girl.
And I feel like, just like you said,
that's the difference between representation and tokenism.
You can't just take one person constantly and use that person
as, like, this person is going to be
our Black girl in the show.
You know what I mean?
To me, it's actually about identity politics.
It's about, I feel, like, really confronting the ideas
that you should be looking for things
to check off in your life.
And it's a really complex thing, because I
do think a lot of people--
I think almost all of us can afford to, like, broaden
our spectrums, like, reach out to different people
from different walks of life, like we've been saying,
more drastically than we do.
But the issue is tokenism is kind of, like,
looking for things to hit.
Like do I have, like, a trans person?
Do I have, like, a person of color?
Do I have, like, a loud per--
whereas, like, representation is a harder concept to digest
because it's kind of blind.
It's abstract.
It's something where, like, identity
shouldn't matter as much because identity
isn't holding you back.
And unfortunately, like, our history as a country
has been the exact opposite, where who you are,
what your skin is, like what gender or sex you are,
like what your age is, everything
has a specific identity attached to it.
And I believe that if we could, like, help promote, like,
the embracing of other people's identities
without needing to focus on them, then it would be amazing.
But so far, I feel like we're just at step
1, which is a good step.
But, like, step 1-- which is acknowledging
that not everybody has the same opportunities
and rights to life.