People see the military losing its way,
not focusing on the mission
and focusing on a lot of these
other things,
things like die and all that stuff.
It hasn't
worked in other aspects of society.
It very well
may be on the constitutional
chopping block
in light of the Supreme
Court's decision
on on racial discrimination
in higher education.
And so
it's not a model that I think
is going to be successful
in the military.
The I, of course,
a reference
to diversity, equity
and inclusion measures.
That was Republican presidential
candidate and Florida governor
Ron DeSantis outlining
why he unveiled a new plan to eliminate
so-called wokeness from the U.S.
military.
That was during my exclusive interview
with him on the campaign trail
in South Carolina.
The DeSantis
plan for the military includes ending
all groups in positions
in the Pentagon that focus on
diversity, equity and inclusion,
banning transgender service members
from being able to serve as they identify
and ending funding for what
he calls, quote, activist
climate change programs.
DeSantis also wants to reinstate
all service members
who had been removed
for refusing the COVID vaccine.
And he wants to punish retired
generals and admirals
who speak out harshly
against any sitting president, Congress
or other officials
Joining us now to discuss
is the former commanding
general for the US Army,
Europe and Seventh
Army, retired Lieutenant General Mark
Hertling, who's also a CNN
military analyst.
General, thanks so much for joining
us, sir.
DeSantis says
the military is losing its way
by focusing on Dgi
and other what he called
woke initiatives.
Someone with decades,
someone with decades
of military experience.
Who still has contacts
in the in the Pentagon right now.
Do you agree? How do you see it?
I disagree with that completely, Jake.
I'll be honest with you.
I not only have contacts
still with forces,
but I'm a mentor to several organizations
and some in a leadership program.
I work with basic trainees
and their commanders.
I've done some things
with other services,
all with an approach
to how we can be better as a military.
And truthfully, I don't understand what
Governor DeSantis is talking about
in some of these things,
and neither do
most of the people in the military.
This is not an issue that is for
at the forefront of anyone
that I've talked to in the military.
So Governor
DeSantis also wants to punish, prosecute,
former members of the military, high
ranking officials
who engage in harsh politics.
You know,
really tough criticism
of the sitting president, for example.
What do you make of that?
You know what's interesting about it?
I was talking to somebody at the Pentagon
about this proposal,
and he said in his mind was open to it.
But he said,
you know,
the first person
that that would be prosecuted
the worst offender.
All this is Mike Flynn,
Yeah,
it's interesting because
what I've tried to do with CNN, Jake,
and you know, this is comment on policies
or what
the the political leaders are doing.
I've never tried to attack
a sitting political leader.
I'm not defending myself.
But certainly there were times
during the previous administration
and even sometimes
during this administration
where I've said
a policy is something
that is approached
in a different way in the military
than what
a sitting president or
a government official is addressing.
That could be construed as,
you know, taking potshots
at a political figure
trying to inform the American people
about the way the military view things.
I take the four decades
that I've had in the military and say,
hey, here's
how those who are wearing
the cloth of the country
feel about this particular action,
just like we're doing now.
You know,
I don't see any wokeness in our military
I've been honored to serve
since the start of my service
and a very diverse force
serving alongside all races, religions,
cultures, men and women.
One in five of our military force
today of about 2 million are women,
and that's
about 400,000 members of our force.
So some of the things that Governor
DeSantis is talking about,
I think he's disconnected
from what the military actually does.
And what they're made up of.
Is there an argument for
for transgender servicemembers
not being allowed to to serve
as they want to,
as they identify of a trans
woman identifying as a woman?
Is there an argument
in DeSantis favor for that
I don't believe so.
But again,
I have a different view of this.
Our military is an all volunteer force.
It has been that way
since the mid eighties.
It's a very diverse force
and truthfully, it's
the best in the world.
People volunteer to serve men and women.
They swear an oath to our Constitution,
which outlines our values,
our national values,
like dignity and respect for all people.
Sometime
during the history of our military,
we failed in that with races, with women
in some other areas.
So if someone is qualified to serve
and they meet the standards, which I
I heard Governor
DeSantis sort of danced around yesterday,
I personally,
as a member of the military,
believe they should serve
because they contribute
a great deal to the diversity.
And I'll use that word
and the wokeness,
which means you're investigating things
within the military.
I consider myself woke Jake.
I will honestly say that
not only
as a as a soldier,
but as a now citizen of Florida.
I'm woke.
And I still live in Florida
because I like to investigate things
I like to analyze things.
I like to expand my view
of not only how our military works,
but how our enemies and our
our allies work as well.
Well, how would you define woke?
Because as Governor
DeSantis noted yesterday,
even many people
who railed against wokeness
and he certainly is against wokeness
as he defines it.
Don't have a definition.
How would you define it?
Well, I've never heard
him give a definition.
I've heard one of his lawyers
give a definition.
And if the definition of his lawyer
gave is the correct one,
then I'm going to say I'm woke.
It's someone that looks outside.
Their normal field of view
is someone that opens their aperture
to different viewpoints,
to try and analyze things
in maybe a unique way,
to try
and not go along with
common cultural bias, but in fact,
find out more things
about a particular subject.
That's what the military does.
We're not taught what to think.
We are taught how to think,
because that's a very valuable attributes
when you're
when you're talking
about dealing with not only our allies,
but with our enemies,
we have to dig into the view of
different cultures, different people.
You know,
my last
job was
as the commander of forces in Europe.
And, you know, truthfully,
I dealt with 49 other countries
and the culture of those nations
and I had to deal with them
to build alliances for different
things that we were doing,
both in Afghanistan and in the continent.
So I needed to look at other cultures.
I needed to see other people's
points of view.
And to me, that's how I define woke
to try and expand my view
of what other people think
and how they see the world.
Retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling,
thank you so much. Appreciate it.