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Last week, we talked about whether or not
pics are required for something to have
happened and a little bit about the construction of proof.
Lets see what you had to say.
Harry TDyer on the subreddit talks about Scott McCloud's
"Understanding Comics" and how, um, Scott McCloud talks
about something like Chart Brut as it relates to comic books,
that the reason comic books work is that the human brain is
able to draw a connection between two panels
that you can have, you know, a comic panel and then
the gutter and then a comic panel,
and we will interpolate between them.
We will draw a connection between the two,
and that Chart Brut can be said to work the same way,
that the person who is making the Chart Brut chart
can say these two images should be connected,
and however you manage to connect them-- connect them,
yes-- that is the correct connection.
And I think that that's not only a really interesting and really
great comment, but also a great application
of "Understanding Comics," which is,
you know, an all time favorite.
Intravenus_de_milo and Alexander [INAUDIBLE]
talk about how pics or it didn't happen
could actually be seen as maybe a symptom of the prevalence
of mobile phone cameras, that if there is an event that
is notable in some way, then it is likely that there will be
many people around who have a camera in their pocket
and that the reflex to take a photo
is one that is very strong and nearly unavoidable.
So it almost kind of takes the human agency out of this idea
that if something happens, that there is so much distributed
surveillance is maybe the phrase that of course
there would be pictures of it because people will not
be able to help themselves to just take the moment, quickly
sort of immortalize something, take a snapshot, and then--
and then either move on or, you know, continue rubber necking.
And I think this is a-- this is a really interesting idea
and something that we sort of mentioned but, uh, could
spend a lot more time on.
maggieedna writes a comment about the conspiracy and proof
generation side of fandom, which is
a thing that we didn't cover at all
and I find very fascinating.
Specifically, they talk about the One Direction
fandom and a kind of internal truther movement there.
And this comment is great for a lot of reasons, one of them
being the phrase proof-like.
Love it.
Proof-like, I'm going to use that.
Stephen Chovat, Inferno Strike, and Ms. Amanda
all talk about the relationship that pics or it
didn't happen has to the African American community
and the Black Lives Matter movement,
specifically about how there is a sort of overabundance
of requests for proof that people are being oppressed
or threatened by their communities or the police
in some way, and I think this is an awesome point and one
that factors directly into this conversation.
Reminds me of, um, there was a cyborgology piece recently
about the kind of racial nature of requesting proof or talking
about statistics, treating statistics
as the sort of sole arbiter of factuality,
and we'll put a link to that in the doobly-doo,
because I think it's very interesting and really related.
Carlos [INAUDIBLE] writes a comment
about the kind of quantum state of images on the internet
that before we look at them, they kind of
could be true or false.
But upon being perceived, you collapse the state
and they become true because we have perceived them.
And this, I think, has a relationship
to Nonentity Nihilist's comment about the kind of growing
perception that we use certain kinds of media for proof
and that that media is increasingly, um, um,
doctorable, or is increasingly falsifiable,
and sort of makes you think, like,
what is going to be the thing that once that self
awareness is widely distributed, we'll be like,
OK, we can no longer trust pics.
It's not pics or it didn't happen, it's forensic analysis
or it didn't happen?
I-- I mean, who knows.
I have no idea.
Marti Trinidad, the odinspire, and Callum McCallister
all write really great and insightful comments
about an old and favorite topic here
on Idea Channel, which is the relationship that photographs,
even undoctored, have to reality,
that the process of creating a photo
is itself an editorial process and one that
creates a kind of alternate, concurrent present to the,
you know, the thing that is being photographed.
So these comments are great links
to these and all of the others in the doobly-doo.
Cody Bennett and Audio Guitar Man
talk about how Photoshop is a much bigger and more important
part of this conversation than we gave it
credit in the episode, and I totally agree with that,
that that part of the conversation, we
could spend a lot more time on.
One of the things that they point out,
which is really interesting, is this attitude of,
like, even when something is true
and the photo is itself completely factual,
is not doctored at all, if the content is
in some way surprising or unbelievable,
there will be a skepticism that it has been photoshopped
that-- that when we are confronted
with unbelievable information and are given pics
and it is-- it has literally happened,
there is still a likelihood or possibility that we will say,
mmm, no, no, no.
That is-- that is photoshopped.
So Photoshop has in some way become like a, you know,
an apology for the actuality of things, which is a very,
I think, interesting idea.
So Dona Pardum and Miriadew have
a really great conversation about pics
or it didn't happen being a kind of expression
of one's own subjectivity, that saying a pics
or it didn't happen is kind of like saying my world
experience is one that does not allow the thing you have
claimed is true to be believable,
and so I require the most convenient form of proof that
exists, which is, I think, a really interesting and really
great way to frame this idea, that it--
it does have at its-- at its core,
you can see it as having a kind of cynicism.
But I think if you want to be more charitable,
you can say that it has a kind of excited
curiosity about the world.
But I think it is true that most people, if they were
to earnestly say pics or it didn't happen,
they're not saying like, oh my God, that's unbelievable.
Pics or it didn't happen.
They're making a demand that they--
you know, their subjectivity needs
to be brought into the experience
that they do not believe is possible.
But yeah, these are great comments.
You know what they say.
If you can't beat 'em, leave town and set up
camp in the wilderness.
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