My guest tonight is an Australian comedian
Like no other she's an ABC favorite from shows like please like me and in Gordon Street tonight
But it's a Netflix stand-up special Nanette
That's become the biggest deal in comedy having been praised all over the world Nanette has won best show at the Adelaide,
Melbourne, Edinburgh and Montreal comedy festivals. It's honestly one of the most raw and powerful shows I have ever seen
I've built a career out of
Self-deprecating humour. I don't want to do that anymore.
To understand what self-deprecation means when it comes from somebody who already exists in the margins
It's not humility
It's humiliation and I simply will not do that anymore not to myself or anybody who identifies with me
Please welcome Hannah Gadsby
But much isn't it?
It is a lot, isn't it. It doesn't feel like any of that was part of the plan
No, but plannings not ever been part of my plan
You know, they say failing to plan is planning to fail
But that sounds like a plan.
I don't know what I said then.
Which is evidence again of a complete like a plan.
It's half my charm
Now because this is on Netflix, it's in 190 countries around the world you are properly famous now
Yeah
In what ways as your life changed as a result of that?
I was still in New York when it dropped they say
That was so street.
Thank you.
And people began to recognize me in New York, and I thought that's not right 'cause I - this is my natural habitat ABC
so old people's homes and
pension day at the supermarket really is where I have to lay low.
It's getting a bit much.
But it's not just where you took the show like New York
You're in so many countries that otherwise would never have had exposure to you.
Because I would never go.
Like yeah, right
India. Not I love the idea of India, but the you know, I have trouble with the pride flag being a bit busy
So I was never gonna go to India and you know, well maybe you know, but I don't - it's just a lot you know
and I'm
I really like my me circle.
Right.
And I think I'd be overwhelmed trying just crossing the street. I've been hit by cars in Canberra.
India sounds like a threat
Just for someone like me. I'm not you know quick on the old feet. So
So, it's nice that I'm there. I don't have it just goes there
So is this just lazy touring Netflix is lazy touring?
Isn't it wonderful? Yeah it's really good.
Now when you perform this show in Melbourne
Everyone was sort of saying to me
Oh, you got to go and see Hannah Gadsby's show it's her last show. And I though
Did you fall for that?
Well, I was I was just like genius that is the best marketing trick I've ever heard. That is the John Farnham special right there.
He's got another concert coming.
Yeah, you are all liars.
But why did you frame it in that way?
No, I meant it...kind of.
It's just that thing. I knew when I was writing the show that I'd be you know, they'll go
This is a one-woman show
because it was pushing the
envelope a little bit so to speak.
As opposed to you normal shows where you perform as The Temptations?
Yeah, yep. The Pips.
So, you know generally I you know
when women do that
they get called one when one woman shows or they're doing a monologue and I men never get charged with that.
You know in Edinburgh or in Melbourne, you know, the reviews come in
it's like, 'it's more of a monologue - could be a TED talk', but no one ever really levels that at a guy when they
try something different or push the form so I thought well
I'll just subvert that by going "Well I quit. Call it what you want. Doesn't matter to me. It's kind of petty.
There's a there's a thing that you do in the show
you tell stories that get lots of laughs but then
you shine a different light on them and show the not funny side of those stories.
This is a story you tell about coming out to your nan.
Last year. My grandma asked me if I had a boyfriend
And I released in that moment that I'm quite forgotten
to come out to Grandma.
I remember it being on my to do this
And that is that is a really funny bit but the whole truth of the story is different
the reason why you hadn't come out to your grandma. Yeah
Yeah, what it doesn't say there is well what I said to her as well I said, "I'm a bit busy"
"for boys".
And I just like that. I've never been busy in my life
And I said boys.
Plural.
That also stunned me.
Suggesting an insatiable appetite.
Oh, yeah.
You know a lot of it was shame. Like I couldn't do it because you know internalized homophobia is really
It's such a deep deeply woven and
Problematic part of yourself. And because you know, it's woven into me when I was really young. It's hard to know
what is me and what was it - is completely unnecessary shame. All of its unnecessary.
But in that moment, I was confronted with how deeply
that had gotten me. And I thought I was over it
I thought I was as proud as you could you know
Like just getting on with it. And then that moment came in in that moment, I thought oh my lord, this is so
deeply - I'm riddled. And I was you know, you know late 30s, and I'm still riddled with this
unnecessary shame.
Seeing this show made me really contemplate the fact that you grew up in a state where your sexuality was
Illegal, and what as a kid growing up that would do.
Well, it's not so much - mine wasn't because I'm a lady what likes ladies and they didn't really worry about us
It was more the invisibility of that. But it was by, you know, the law was pertaining to gay men.
But that also gave me - it's that sort of homophobia mixed with invisibility
which is what was for lesbians in Tasmania.
So we had that shame but also that irrelevance almost.
It's almost that you didn't even exist enough to have a law against you.
Absolutely.
Their words not mine.
Yeah well you know, you really took them on.
Yeah, but a lot of that is also you know, so I got you know
I was a lesbian by default because no man would ever like me. That's what I got told, you know.
So all these horrific things that you just take on board and you know deflect them to us on the surface level.
But you know, late 30s, I'm going "oh, I really kind of believe them" on this horrificly deep level.
But also the gay marriage debate in Australia really highlighted to me that it wasn't Tasmania that was behind there's that
that attitude exists all around Australia and they really got on board
some 20 odd years later. And that is what, I think I could have been fine if that gay marriage debate
hadn't have kicked off and that is what triggered
this sort of
shame all over again. Because I'm like gosh nobody's changed
I paid heavily for a lesson that
nobody could be bothered to learn. And a lot of the same political figures were involved in that first debate
Mm-hmm
And they came up again. The same politicians.
Stirring the pot because they know there's votes in hate and that is the only reason.
I was just so furious and I thought well, why should I be funny?
Like if our leaders can't even be bothered to lead. So as a comedian, why should I do comedy?
And that's that's why through the I quit.
If only they would do the same yeah
Does it feel any better or different now that the law has changed in that regard?
Well gay marriage for me - process is important.
You know, I think that law that
the plebiscite shouldn't have happened.
You know that it's a whole bunch of elected
leaders not reading the room
Just going with their own arrogance and their own thing and just going we know and they didn't it's so clear with the result.
They did not know what you know those people who voted for them want.
And so the process was toxic and I think that does that's we - we didn't win because
we had to go through that stupid and toxic process.
For me though doing the show has helped because doing this show
I've managed to find connections to so many different sorts of people not just on homophobia.
Just so many different people
have - I feel more connected to it.
And I had no idea how disconnected I was. So personally doing the show has been kind of incredible.
I'm curious about that. The show you touch on some deeply traumatic chapters in your life some really heavy business and you
are fully connected to it.
The anger is real. The hurt is real. Did that take a toll?
Having to do that night after night doing the show? And how did you handle it?
Lots of naps.
Honestly, honestly, I've napped more in the last two years than I have cumulatively and I've napped a lot.
But yeah, I did I did live very low-profile for the last two years doing that show it's pretty much been all-consuming
I have to take a break now a
Temporary quit if you will because I need to take stock. I need to work out what I've done to myself because I
have done something.
Do you feel at the end of it that it that it was definitely worth it.
Yes. Yeah
Yeah, I really do. I think I feel quite
privileged to be able to say that I've done something constructive.
What that exactly is probably up to other people to
really pin down. Even in the room when I first started doing it before Netflix just with the audiences
I just knew I was doing something constructive.
And that felt good.
Part of the show
I think is the greatest use of an art history degree I've ever seen in my life.
You you discuss in detail, but understandable detail
Picasso and why you're not a fan of Picasso? Why is that?
He's a...dick biscuit.
Yeah
The thing about Picasso is he's you know, his art is one thing. I can appreciate what he did
It's it's an important part of the the story of modern art. Absolutely.
Fundamental part, but it's his mythology that everyone
invests in and his mythology romanticizes
a deeply abusive and misogynist person and romanticizes that basically for profit if you you know, like
the worst kind of people really buy his art.
Like you know then if you look at who's buying them at auction, they're just really dodgy.
Dodgy guys.
I get a sense that you, you can't be in a position to buy a Picasso
without having it had done something pretty dodgy on the way there.
Actually you'd be surprised. He was pretty prolific
You can pick up some really crap little doodles that he's done.
Yeah on Gumtree all the time.
I think IKEA do a good line.
Which is the pinnacle. I used to enjoy Picasso, I enjoyed his art and and now I don't good.
Good.
All I'm asking is can you suggest someone that I can get into instead of Picasso?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah sure. Now?
Yeah, why not?
Well, I think there's an interesting thing was I don't think you're gonna get too many particularly male artists and let's be honest most of
them are in the cannon. The cannon is a giant cock.
And that's why -
And the cannon itself is a giant cock. Yeah
It's you know, you're gonna be hard-pressed to find good men in in how I think we really want
you know our men to be. You know, that I'm saying you go back through history. They're all
dodgy and doing dodgy things. They were men at their time.
But I think it's important to challenge the way we tell their stories and so we don't go
well, you know he had to yet to paint a lot
so why not hit a few women and lock them up in their studio, you know and deprived them of their you know
autonomy. Let's you know, we've got some good sideways noses out of that business.
I think we need to step on - on how we talk about these stories. They exist. You can't change history. I'm not for censorship.
He's an important place, but we can't forget that he was an asshole.
and
he behaved in ways that we don't want to tolerate. And we do still. There is still that kind of shit behavior happening
and I think that's part of the way we tell these stories. And there's a lot of women that you know,
haven't made the cannon that we could you know, they've got good stories start telling good stories like Louise Bourgeois while she's there now
But she's great that she had to be 80 before she got discovered.
She was contemporary to him for you know while there. Ignored. She's a lady.
How do you feel as an artist to have changed the way people look at Picasso?
I'm really happy.
You know, I'm probably an asshole.
Yeah, I just think it's also it's also lazy.
There's so many artists that have done really - and they have interesting stories and were up against different things
and you know, he's just a habit of almost a habit of like he's a arty - does the sideways noses and like, you know
there's others.
Like, I like Monet. You know he
he built a garden and then painted it. What a delightful man.
He was even blind he couldn't even see his own garden and was still painting it.
It's like he it's like it retired backwards.
Yeah. Is it?
Yeah, 'cause you garden after you retire, but he planted the garden and then started working.
Yeah. Wow.
That's modernism.
You can see Nanette yourself on Netflix. Would you please thank Hannah Gadsby?