So today we're going to be talking
about the fears of leaving a narcissist
and dealing with some of the codependency issues
that we struggle with when we are contemplating
ending a narcissistic marriage or a narcissistic relationship.
A narcissist is someone who is said to lack empathy
and is said to have the ability to exploit
the emotions of others in an effort
to manipulate other people.
So a narcissistic relationship is rooted in manipulation.
Narcissists are known to lie pathologically.
They have a false sense of self.
And there is a difference between a covert narcissist
and an overt narcissist.
A covert narcissist is somebody who is easy to spot--
much, much easier than a covert narcissist.
And an overt narcissist is grandiose and has this sense
that they are better than everyone
and has literally just convinced themselves
that they are special and unique, and they feel entitled.
So think about somebody who cuts the line at the bank, who
cuts the line at a grocery store, who steals,
who will hide the work of employees or those co-workers
that they work with because they want the promotion.
So they will use their friend's parking spot
even though it's not their parking spot.
They feel entitled to park in their friend's parking spot
at work, because they just don't want to have to walk.
But they don't care about the other person who has to walk,
and it's not your parking spot.
And so if they have a desire to cheat, they cheat.
And it won't be their spouse's fault that they cheat.
They'll minimize the idea of cheating.
They'll make excuses.
They'll say, no, it's really not cheating,
because she wasn't a prostitute.
Or it's really not cheating, because he wasn't married.
Or it really wasn't cheating, because I told you
I was going to cheat, or whatever.
There's this lack of empathy for how their actions affect
other people.
They will treat their families different inside,
behind closed doors, than they do outside.
And so it's really confusing if you're
in a relationship with a narcissist,
because you understand that the world sees them in one way,
and you experience them in a different way.
And it's very maddening.
It makes you feel very topsy-turvy.
And a covert narcissist is someone who is more vulnerable.
And some research suggests that a covert narcissist
knows that they're inadequate--
and they have conflict about being inadequate--
but they are still arrogant, and they
will punish you for not doing what they want you to do.
They are passive-aggressive.
They stonewall you.
You can't get from point A to point B.
And so there is this manipulation happening,
but it's not easy to spot.
But let's say you're at a point in your life
where you're like, I'm done.
I can't do this anymore.
Been married six years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years.
I've coached people who have been married for 40 years
and who are just coming out of the fog and who, for 40 years,
thought, it was me.
I was just broken.
He looks so perfect.
He has a great job.
Everybody loves him.
Or she has her stuff together, and she's an executive,
and I quit college.
And so I've coached people who have longstanding marriages who
were just beginning to understand
that the crazy-making is enough, and that the fact that they're
out there googling "what is a narcissist"
or "is my spouse a narcissist" or "can I save my marriage"
is a sign that there is big trouble.
My husband, as far as I know, is not out there
googling "what's wrong with my wife?"
And I don't google "what's wrong with my husband?"
I'm just not doing it.
There's no reason to.
But so many of us turn to books.
I know that when I was trying to figure out
what was wrong in my marriage and I
started to finally peel away the shame,
that maybe it wasn't all me--
I knew that I had some insecurity issues,
and I knew that I had some codependency issues, but maybe
it all wasn't my fault. And I started
to google "the passive-aggressive man."
And I bought a book called Living
with the Passive-Aggressive Man, and it was so enlightening.
And I started to realize, if I'm online
googling "how to live with a passive-aggressive person,"
there's a problem.
Eventually, I got to the point where I realized that
my marriage could not be saved, and the only way it could be
saved was if I continued to pretend that I was happy when I
wasn't.
If I could stop all my emotions, if I
could pretend that I didn't see what I saw,
if I could keep having babies to distract me,
if I could start another business to distract me,
if I could act like I wasn't this miserable,
then maybe my marriage would survive.
But is that surviving?
Maybe back in the 1600s, that flew--
maybe the 1700s and the 1800s.
But in 2020, things are different.
We are awakening.
We are understanding what healthy relationships should
feel like.
We're understanding that it's not just about making money.
It's not just about having children.
It's about living a purposeful life.
It's about feeling fulfilled.
It's not about settling anymore, tolerating anymore.
It's just not.
And so when we make the decision to end
a narcissistic relationship, we have
to face our own codependency.
Because we are going to worry about what
the kids are going to think.
We're going to worry about them siding with the narcissist.
And make no mistake--
when you divorce a narcissist, they
will do everything in their power
to make you look like the bad one.
It's going to happen.
That's why they're a narcissist.
I went through it myself.
I lost my son for a while.
I lost my daughter for a while.
And now they're 20 and 28 and 22, and none of them
have anything to do with him.
Which I think is sad, but they're all adults now,
and they're able to decide what kind of relationship
they want in their lives.
And unfortunately, they've decided
that their relationship with their father
is a strain on their mental health because of the inability
to have empathy.
Their feeling is that he has absolutely zero empathy
for what they're feeling.
And so that is dangerous when you're dealing with someone
like that in the context of a relationship
and you love this person.
That's their decision.
When we are deciding to divorce a narcissist,
we must face this idea that we cannot live in fear of what
other people think.
We have come to decide who we are and to live that truth.
And there's going to be a time when
the narcissist does their thing, smears your name,
triangulates you.
That's all part of you coming out
of the web that is narcissistic abuse.
We can't expect our divorce to be
any different than our marriage.
We have to expect that there's going to be some collateral
damage, that it's going to be more difficult than ever.
And as someone who has survived the fire, what I had to realize
was I could not live in fear of what my children were
going to think.
I had to accept that I might lose them.
I had to accept that he was going
to buy them motorcycles, which he did,
and buy them cell phones, and buy them cameras,
and make it really difficult for a single mom without a job who
could not keep up with him to make my children happy.
And I decided to strive for something much greater
than just their happiness, which was lessons.
My goal became life lessons.
No, I couldn't buy them the camera.
No, I couldn't buy them the fanciest sneakers
of the moment.
But I could try to teach them invaluable life lessons.
And the life lesson was, you have
to learn to believe in yourself and stand up for yourself
and live your truth in spite of what other people think.
And I just imagined if my children were
in a similar situation to me, and I thought,
I would never want them to stay.
I would want them to go.
Because being afraid to leave a narcissistic relationship
is like spiritual bondage.
It's physical bondage.
It's slavery.
And the fear makes you so afraid.
And I can tell you as someone who
has walked through the fire, once you face the fear
and you stick with it, and you dissolve it,
and you think about--
what are the benefits of leaving a narcissistic relationship?
What are you teaching your children by staying?
What are you teaching your children by leaving?
How do you improve your life by standing up for yourself
and eliminating this type of toxicity from your life?
What are you teaching your children about boundaries?
What are you teaching yourself?
And that really has to be what we strive for.
We have to know that we inspire other people
when we learn to tell the truth, when we
learn to be our authentic self.
And that's really scary, because as long as you placate
the narcissist and as long as you play the game,
then they're happy, the in-laws are happy,
your parents are happy, and the kids are happy--
except for you.
And it can be really, really scary when you are codependent,
and you're a people pleaser, and your religion
tells you you should just put up and shut up.
It's really scary to find the courage to say, no,
I'm going to do this.
And so I hope that this podcast has inspired anyone
out there who is contemplating leaving
a narcissistic relationship, anybody
out there that has children and is worrying about what
might happen with them.
Let's try to figure out how not to be codependent
through this process.
Let's try to figure out how to end
a relationship in a mature way, because it's your right
to do so.
And let's hope that you're able to teach your children
that they have a right to stand up for themselves
and to respect themselves and to expect to be treated
with dignity and respect.
And they have a right to say, this was a mistake
and I'd like to change gears right now in this marriage,
because I deserve better.
I don't want to teach my children to live in fear.
I don't want to spread codependency
through another generation.
I want to teach my children how to believe in themselves
and to take care of themselves and respect
themselves even when it's scary, and especially when it's scary.
And in this way, we inspire other people to do the same.
Your story will inspire someone else.
You may never hear about it, but when
people find the courage to be themselves and to break chains
and to break cycles, they change the world.
So I hear you if you're struggling
with these types of dynamics.
I've gone through them myself.
Many of my clients are struggling with them right now.
And I just hope that this podcast
has inspired you to believe in yourself
and believe in your right to live the life that you
were born to live.
Namaste, dear ones.
Until next time.
Bye for now.