Juilliard School of Music.
The most famous name,
just like Carnegie Hall.
It used to be the place where people
who wanted to pursue their dreams in music
and performing arts would go to.
Well, it seems that the university
has been making good use of their status
to continually increase and charge very expensive tuition fees,
to the point that there's now student protests,
as students can no longer afford to pay these fees.
Begs the question,
is Juilliard still worth it?
And what does the music education landscape look like today?
We're going to explore that in today's video.
We've actually been contacted by several musicians to talk about this.
New York Times has already reported about it.
- Rolling Stone looks like it started reporting about it. - Yeah.
The protest was led by a student-organized group
called the Socialist Penguins.
Eddy: On the seventh of June, there was a sit-in
demanding a tuition freeze.
What happened was during the protest,
security tried to lock them in on the second floor of the building.
Which, to me, sounds extremely hazardous maybe?
- Like, what about the fire escape? - Yeah, there's actual footage of this going on.
The reason we didn't get locked in was because
the student successfully stopped the door from shutting
by running as fast as he could.
"We had instructions to do that."
Oh, that's messed up.
That's freaky, man.
Who gave those instructions, though?
"Let's lock the students in."
"They're complaining about the tuition fees
'cause uh, we increased them, but let's lock them in."
- Oh my god... - Um, hello??
That's like "my dog ate my homework."
You just know that that guy had to come up
- with some excuse on the spot! - Yeah!
He's like, got caught red-handed,
for doing something that's very questionable.
I even wonder if that's, like... legal.
It doesn't sit well with me.
I just don't like the idea of being locked in.
Juilliard became a jailyard!
Yeah look, to be fair, though...
- I don't know what the students were doing, right? - Uh-huh.
Maybe they were doing something terrible. Breaking sh*t.
But. It still doesn't justify you guys locking them in.
What happened to just having a conversation,
talking about these things?
Following that incident, the school identified
every single student that attended the protest,
and sent us this email.
Okay, 'cause locking people in
- is not a breach of safety. - Yeah, yeah.
Fire goes down.
- Whoop-dee-doo! You know? That's not good. - Holy moly.
So they're basically saying, we're gonna suspend you
if you walk into our building now.
Is that a threat?
It is a threat.
Many of our students are now
going to have to miss rehearsals,
simply because we expressed our free right to protest.
Okay, that's messed up,
because you get graded on attendence in rehearsals.
So now your academic results
are going to be completely screwed over,
because you can't enter a rehearsal building.
It's so out of control.
The thing that gets to me is,
this is a time where most classes have been moved online.
They're increasing tuition fees at a time when
you're not even going to uni, you're just at home.
On a Zoom thing.
And now these students got that very last bit
of rehearsals in person taken away from them.
- What are you even getting out of this degree at this point? - Dude, the whole point of being a musician
- is actually playing with each other. - Yeah.
Meeting people that share the same
- goals and careers and dreams with you. - Yeah.
Creating these bonds.
- It's not there. - Yeah.
So what's the point of charging more
when they can't even achieve this?
You're not helping a musician become a musician.
This is my personal opinion.
The largest value you can get going to a music institution is
- lessons in person. - Oh, 100%.
And then there's ensembles playing.
And the fact that you meet
and network with like-minded people.
- To me, those are the three, top three aspects. - Yes.
Any of the academic things, like even theory...
- You wanna learn about aural? - Yeah.
There's aural training YouTube videos.
Go on Wikipedia, go on YouTube.
You can learn so much.
Now they're basically having to pay
$51,000 a year to learn things
that they could just Google.
- Pfft. - Essentially.
The last tiny bit that might be worth it for them,
going into the "Diamond Building" and stuff,
it's gone.
To be honest, as a musician, that's all we want.
Performance opportunities, having lessons,
playing rehearsals, and meeting people.
- And that's all taken away. - That's so messed up.
I know. It's so messed up.
If...
...that tuition increase really is justified,
perhaps the best way to communicate that
is not by locking the students in.
And then threatening them,
and ending the email with "Respectfully."
I thought that was so ironic.
- "We just screwed you over. Respectfully..." - Yeah.
Brett: Tuition fees went from...
2017, it was $43,170 USD.
Per year.
So like, three years is what?
Pfft. Too much money.
2020 - 2021 was $49,260.
Now, 2021 to 2022 is what made this whole thing happen.
They increased it again to $51,230 US dollars.
And that's just for the tuition fee.
For the students that live on campus and board,
residency fees have also increased a lot.
These numbers are from the Juilliard website itself, right?
$49,000 for tuition fees.
Single room boarding fees, $18,000.
In 2021, it shot up to...
$24,000 for a single room!
- What is that, 25% increase? - Yeah.
That's insane!
During Covid, too.
What student has the money to pay the rent during Covid?
This is times when most families and like,
- everyday citizens are struggling the most. - Yup.
There's unemployment everywhere.
- Musicians are getting gigs canceled everywhere. - Yep.
And now they have to cough up an extra...
$10,000? Per year?
It's one thing to say new students in the future
have to pay more.
But I've always thought it was weird that...
Say I'm going to uni.
They're like, "Oh. You will be paying $5,000 a year."
And then after the first year they go,
"Actually, you're going to be paying $10,000 a year."
- Yeah, that's... - But you can't back out now,
- 'cause then you don't get your degree and all of it's wasted. - No, that's, that's a bit like a... trap.
- Yeah! - 'Cause imagine you're at a restaurant.
- The menu says they're $20. - The menu says $20. And you say,
"Hey, I want this burger." They go, "Yeah, sure."
While they're making it they go,
"By the way, for us to serve it,
now it's like, $25."
- "Otherwise we can't serve you the burger." It's like... - Yeah.
How can you justify the increase of the price?
After I've ordered it?
- Or while I'm eating it? - Yeah!
It's like, they can't even back out now,
'cause they've already started the degree.
I can see why
- students are really pissed off. - It's a bit sus.
Oh, by the way, I want to clarify.
According to inside sources,
a lot of the faculty,
like the teachers and musicians that teach there,
are also against this whole price increase.
But they just can't speak up
because they're gonna lose their jobs.
We've heard a lot of stories,
- Oh, trust us. We know. - from friends that come from Juilliard.
- 'Cause we're inside the loop. - Yeah.
Inside sources said that they were told
the justification of the price increase is inflation.
The students are gonna struggle with
- the fact that their rent's gonna go up. - Dude...
- Freaking groceries are gonna go up. - Yeah, what a piss-weak excuse!
You should be looking after these talented people,
- nurture them, make them grow. - Yeah.
'Cause maybe when they're doing really well,
they'll reference you.
Like, "Hey, Juilliard made it happen for us."
As Juilliard did in the past.
That's why we all know the name.
So this whole inflation thing, right?
For a resident student, it went from...
- $71,000 to $84,000. - To $84,000.
What's that, like a... 18% increase.
What, your inflation went up 18% in one year?
So, initially, when I heard this I was like,
"Hey look, we should try to be,
when looking at these things, try to be objective."
- Obviously, we relate to being a music student. - Yes.
But, you know, my initial thought was like,
"Hey, let's be objective. Maybe it's fake."
Thing is, these students, the Socialist Penguins...
They've done their research.
- And they just found some pretty... - Oh, yeah.
...hard to ignore evidence for their case.
There's some pretty interesting strong points.
The first one being...
Juilliard received an above average amount of
endowment of 1.1 billion dollars.
Damn! That's a lot of money.
I don't know what endowment industry averages are,
but I looked it up, and yes,
there were articles saying 1.1 billion.
So that number is real, right?
Compared to other institutions,
like Curtis, where they remain tuition-free.
Or Colburn, who had a tuition freeze
in the first month of registration from 2020 to 2021.
Oh, talk about being humane!
Maybe that's why Curtis musicians are better.
Just joking! I'm just joking!
What we've heard time and time again is
Juilliard facilities aren't actually that good.
Oh, I know so many people that have been to Juilliard.
- They go to that fourth floor, was it? Practice room? - Yeah.
It's just dirty, no one ever cleans it.
Apparently you get allergy attacks,
- just being inside with the curtains. - It's small.
1.1 billion endowment,
and they're trying to screw the musician students over?
I don't know, man.
All right, here's an interesting one.
The former Juilliard president was awarded a $1 million...
$1.1 million bonus.
Yeah, almost 1.1 million dollar bonus in 2018,
in addition to a salary of...
...half a million. Dude, what the f***?
That's so much money.
"How do I make my $1.5 million? I know!"
- "Increase tuition fees!" - "Increase..."
"Let's go!"
We were like, "Hey, is this real," right?
The thing is, Juilliard is a nonprofit organization.
Which means they have to report
on what's called the 990 tax form.
I don't know, like,
how much presidents are meant to be paid...
- Yeah, and I'm sure he's done a lot of stuff, right? - Yeah.
- To keep Juilliard going. - I hope so.
- Opening up in China, things like that. - Yeah.
Expanding Juilliard's influence.
Understandably, the students are upset, though,
because with such a big endowment,
and with such big compensations,
these students are racking up enormous student debt.
Right? That's a big problem in America right now.
When I was like 18, I had no way of getting $80,000 US.
- I have no— A year, while studying. - A year.
Imagine the amount of pressure that these students have,
trying to make ends meet.
And also trying to get a new career going.
$80,000 USD??
That's debt.
So you gotta make a salary that first pays off
your mortgage, your rent...
- Whatever. - Yeah.
The rest of your life, and then still have an extra $80,000
- to pay off the debt. - To pay off debt.
We got a bit of a...
Some stats on some music degree
tuition fees around the world, right?
So, Singapore. Yong Siew Toh is 10,000 USD a year.
That's really good.
- Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts, $5,000 a year. - Wow, even better!
The Queensland Con, where we studied,
- apparently now is 25,000 USD. That's a lot. - Wow, that's a lot.
Because I remember when we were there,
it was around $10,000 a year.
And that was only about 8 years ago.
I don't remember them increasing it halfway, too.
- Just increase it for the new students, don't... - Yeah.
...increase it [for] someone that's already in.
It's like, "Hey, let's sign a 5-year contract
for a subscription service."
And 2 years in, they're like, "Actually..."
"Oh, by the way, it's going up now!"
- Start the rent for the new degree. - Yeah.
The University of Melbourne, $6,000 a year.
Even the Royal Academy of Music is $13,000 US.
Curtis, free!
So good.
Okay, now the Manhattan School of Music
- is also $51,000. - That's a bit high.
Which makes you wonder,
- why is New York so expensive?? - Yeah.
Is that even worth it?
To be fair, yeah, Juilliard does have a name. But...
I have so many friends that have been there.
Great musicians, they all say it's not what you think it is.
And it's such a shame for...
...the people that did really well in Juilliard in the past.
- I don't want to taint their name. - Yeah.
There's so many great musicians
- that came out from Juilliard. - Yeah.
- Juilliard was a great place. - Mm.
And maybe it is, but it just seems like
whatever this justification is,
it's such a poor excuse.
For attracting people from around the world to
have their parents save for the kids
to have a hope and a dream and a future.
You're like, "Oh, by the way."
- "We're gonna take your money from you." - Actually...
That last point kinda rings true for me, rings home because
when I first graduated uni,
I was told to study overseas.
- Master's. - Mmm.
And that costed a lot of money.
- And one of the most popular destinations - Yeah, that's a lot.
- is the UK, for Australians. - Yeah.
For international students, it's $34,000 a year.
That's a lot of money.
And so I was like,
"You know what? I'm going to take a trip to Europe."
- And just plan some lessons - Yeah.
with some of the most famous teachers there. I'm like,
"Well, there's all this hype about these great teachers."
I want to know before I commit 2 years post-grad,
'cause that's a lot of money.
The most expensive, "prestigious" teachers I had a lesson with
was by far the worst waste of money.
I learned nothing.
Nothing.
I paid 490 euros for a one-hour lesson
with this dude who started saying Shakespeare to me.
That is not to say that it's not worth it
if you get a great teacher.
- Because I did have two really good lessons, - Oh, 100%.
and even since then,
- I've had amazing lessons with great teachers - Yeah.
that ironically, don't charge that much.
The great teachers seem to have a pretty fair
- price level, right? - Yeah, yeah.
So again, I don't mean...
"Oh, just don't get lessons and do everything yourself."
That's not what I mean. My point is,
you have to learn to separate
an actual great education source,
- versus just the name. - Yes.
And we feel like, from what we've heard...
- Again, I'm sure there's great teachers at Juilliard. - Yes.
But...
Is Juilliard a bit perhaps over-hyped right now,
and charging premium prices for that?
- Maybe. - Yeah.
Again, not dissing on the place.
We've just heard a lot of different stories.
I'm not the one managing...
- ...1.1 billion. I wouldn't even know how. - Yeah.
But to me, getting $2,000 from a student
with 1.1 billion endowment seems a little...
Yeah. But that same $2,000 means a lot to students.
Yeah! I remember when I was 18, $2,000 was like,
"Whoa!!"
- Dude, $5 was a lot of money! - Yeah, $5 was like,
- "Whoa! Okay, I can get my own lunch from Subway! Yeah!" - Yeah.
- Like, it's a lot of money. - Yeah.
- Students are worried about saving money, you know? - Yeah.
- That $2,000 is huge, for a student. - Yeah.
And again, look.
If you want to set your prices, well, again,
- up to you to say your prices. - Yeah.
But don't underhandedly slip it in
to people that have already agreed
- to doing a four-year degree. - Yeah.
'Cause now they can't get out!
I really hope...
...that this gets settled peacefully,
and that the students can start going to the facility again.
- All of this is so unnecessary. - It's unnecessary.
We just hope the students kinda get what they want.
The school hears them out.
Maybe actually have a conversation,
- so there's a bit of understanding on both sides. - Yeah.
And I hope this problem will end so everyone can get back
to practicing as you all should be.
♪ Freeze our tuition ♪
♪ We shall not be moved ♪
♪ Freeze our tuition ♪
♪ We shall not be moved ♪
♪ Just like the tree that's planted by the water ♪
♪ We shall not be moved ♪
♪ We shall not, we shall not be moved ♪
♪ Just like a tree that's planted by the water ♪
♪ We shall not be moved ♪