Sal: So I'm here with Sean Logan,
who's the Director of College Counseling
at Phillips Andover Academy, and Jim Ventre,
Ven-tree, am I pronouncing it right, Jim?
Jim: Ven-tree, yes.
Sal: Ven-tree, who's the Director of
Admissions and Financial Aid at Phillips Andover,
and what we're hoping to talk, or start
talking about in this video, is really just the
financial aid process, and in particular, the FAFSA,
so, I guess, wait a minute, I should probably
do that in all caps, my first question for
either of you is, I guess, "what is the FAFSA,
"and what does it actually stand for?"
Sean: Right, so the FAFSA is the free application
for federal student aid, and it's really important
for students to realize that free part of this name,
because there is an opportunity to get on the web
and go to FAFSA.com and somebody will happily
help you with it, but you need to pay for it.
So the first thing we talk with students a lot about
is the FAFSA is a free form.
You should not be paying for it.
And the title again, it's by the federal government,
they use a rubric to sort of figure out,
based on this form, how much your family should
contribute to a college education.
Sal: And it's Free Application for Federal Student Aid?
Sean: Student, yes, student aid.
Sal: And just to hit the point home of what
you just said, it should absolutely be free,
and there are places where people will charge you
to kind of optimize it, or fill it out for you, or...
Sean: That's correct, so the first thing,
normally when you start to type in on
a search engine, FAFSA, a lot of times
FAFSA.com pops up.
It's a legitimate site, but they charge you
something like 80, 85 dollars
to help you fill out the form.
So you want to go to FAFSA.ed.gov
to start this process.
Sal: .ed.gov, and there it will be free,
and what is, when you fill out this form, in a
future video we'll actually
take a look at the form itself,
but what do you input into it, and what comes
out of it, and then who uses that information?
Jim: I think for many students who are applying
to college right now, they are accustomed
to telling their story, in essays and in various
pieces of their application, and they have to
think of the FAFSA as just their family's
financial story, and their financial story has
many variables, but most importantly, the things
that the FAFSA asks for are simplified as things that
would be questions that students could probably
answer right off the top of their head,
in terms of their family income, and whether they
own a home, or whether they rent where they live,
it's things like that.
Sal: And, I mean, I remember filling this, we
were talking about this before, I guess clicking
record, all of us were significant recipients
of financial aid, of need-based financial aid,
and I remember filling it out, I remember
I kind of had my mom's tax form, which I had to
fill out for her, right before filling out the FAFSA,
Sean: Exactly (laughing)
Sal: But that's essentially, I remember,
at least this was in the early nineties,
kind of the inputs that I needed to be able to fill out
most of the form.
Sean: And that's correct, yeah, I mean, one of the
things that specifically looking at, in working with
a lot of low-income families, one of the things
to realize, is that it generally is
actually a pretty simple form, because there
aren't a lot of things that make it complicated.
There aren't trust funds, there aren't investments,
there aren't probably, in a lot of times,
sometimes there are homes that are owned,
but a lot of times they're just renting.
Usually it's a paycheck that comes in,
and it's sort of a standard paycheck that comes
in for the year, so it's actually a pretty
simple form, it's just getting students to step up
and do it, is the real challenge.
Sal: And the reason obviously, it's
pretty obvious why they care about income,
that's kind of the total amount of money
your family's making, but then the reason
why they care about things like home ownership,
and if I remember properly, they ask things
about the number of siblings you have,
and they try to understand your family's
expenses too, and the whole reason is to kind of
figure out their ability to pay for college?
Jim: That's right, so at the outset, students are
asked questions to fill out on their family's
financial circumstances, basically what the colleges
are trying to do, is come to a conclusion,
which allows them to have a picture of what the family
is up against every month, every week,
and what's left in the bank, so to speak,
at the end of all the family operating expenses.
Sal: And so what, after you fill out the form,
where does that go, this is at the
Department of Education site, but do they
process it, or do they just give the form
to the universities, what happens after that?
Sean: That's a great point Sal, I think
one of the misperceptions about the FAFSA is,
I'm gonna submit this form to the
government, basically, and then they're gonna crunch
all these numbers, and then they're gonna determine
a financial aid package for my family.
I think that's a really common misperception.
All the FAFSA does, is it looks again at your family's
income, number of kids in the family,
other assets, those sorts of things, and it
determines an Estimated Family Contribution.
What a college does with that varies greatly.
And I think that's something that families
need to understand.
So all it is going to do is determine a number.
That number might mean your family should be able
to contribute 1000 dollars towards your
son or daughter's education, 5000 dollars,
or zero dollars for that matter, but
that's all it does.
Sal: I see, and the reason why this exists is so
that colleges would have a somewhat uniform
way of looking at this, and they can feel good
that the data is real?
Jim: That's right, and so one of the things in this
Estimated Family Contribution is sort of this sense
that the family is self-reporting where they stand
in their family circumstances financially.
And one of the things we want to caution about
is that when you receive a sort of
Estimated Family Contribution, or what they call
the EFC, you want to make sure that's in line with
your expectations, because sometimes that number
can seem odd to the family when they understand
where it came from, and they may have made
a mistake in some way on the form.
Sal: I see, but then that Estimated Family
Contribution, then that gets sent to the universities
that you have, usually at this point, have gotten
admission to.
Sean: It'll go to every university ahead of time,
so if the student applies to seven schools,
you're gonna want it there well before decisions
come out, there are usually very strict deadlines
to get things there in time, but then,
usually what happens in the admissions office
is if Sal, if I'm reading your application
in the admissions office, and I say great,
Sal Khan is gonna be admitted, and I call down
to our financial aid office, this is all done
electronically now, but the financial officer,
what he will do is open up your electronic file,
and he will see the FAFSA sitting in there,
and then he will see that, and it will say, ok,
the Khan family should be able to pay
1000 dollars towards Sal's education,
we cost 50 thousand dollars, so now we're gonna
have to create a financial aid package for
49 thousand dollars to make it possible
for you to come here.
Sal: And so that's before you've been
officially admitted?
Sean: It's typically when you get admitted,
then the admissions office will say, ok now
calculate a financial aid package.
Sal: And are these, I can imagine a lot of
students would worry about this, are these
kind of separate processes, you know, or will
the admissions officers be able to see the kind of
Estimated Family Contribution, and then does that
have the potential to kind of affect your
chances of admissions?
Jim: Oh absolutely, I think colleges are mindful
of the programs that they have in place to support
these students, and so the college's overall mission
plays a role in how they're distributing financial aid,
and the way they view students that they are going
to support, through what they uncover in the FAFSA.
Sean: And Sal, let me add to that, there's
two important definitions here.
One is institutions that are need blind, and
institutions that are need sensitive.
And that's an important question for students to ask
as they are starting to research colleges.
Typically need blind schools mean, whether or not
you are applying for aid has no impact on
an admissions decision.
And, we will fund you to 100 percent of your
demonstrated need, based on the FAFSA.
Ok, so that's an important one.
Needs sensitive, and this is getting to your point,
there are schools, and again, the great majority of
schools are need sensitive, because they have limited
budgets, so they might take into account at
some point in the process, financial aid.
If we're sort of talking to really high-achieving,
low-income students right now, typically
they are still gonna make out very well,
because even though the school might take
into account need, and the student may need
as much as a full ride, if they were really
top, top students, that's still somebody they are
going to support and probably pay for.
If you are a student that's not as strong,
that's when you might get caught in exactly what
you are asking about, is though you need
x number of dollars, you're sort of right in
a range where we have a lot of choices, that
may make you less attractive.
So, again the story I always tell students is,
the better student you are, not only the more
opportunities you'll have for admission,
but the better financial aid packages
you'll be eligible for.
Jim: That's right.
Sal: And is it possible it might even go
the other way, where when they look at your need,
and they say wow, he or she comes from a family
that didn't have all the resources of many
of our other applicants, that that actually
could be a positive, when you apply?
Jim: Oh absolutely, I think the, for example
Andover operates on a need blind admission
initiative, and we're looking for students who meet
the demands of our program, and when you see
students who may not have had all the preparation
in terms of leading up to coming to Andover,
it's very compelling to find students who could
manage the rigor of our program, and not have
had that preparation, and so we would
be very attracted to them, and want to provide
a financial aid package that supports them
at our school.
Sal: Right. Jim: Colleges operate the same way.
Sal: And Phillips Andover, obviously
a well-recognized high school, and colleges,
you're saying, are operating
in a very similar way, or many do.
Jim: Exactly, yes they do.
Sal: Very cool.