VIRUS. >> PER PERSON, WE’RE NOT CLOSE
TO NUMBER ONE.
DR. FAUCI IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
WE’RE NOT GOING TO GO BACK TO
WHERE WE WERE.
CERTAINLY NOT UNTIL THERE IS
EXTENSIVE TESTING, WHICH WE’VE
KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME.
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING IT FOR
SEVERAL WEEKS.
SEVERAL WEEKS. DAVID REMNICK IS WITH US.
DAVID, YOU WROTE SEVERAL STORIES
WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH
US.
US. ONE OF THEM HAD TO DO WITH THE
FACT THAT NEW YORK WILL NEVER BE
THE SAME AGAIN.
IT DOESN’T REMIND YOU OF
ANYTHING YOU’VE SEEN IN NEW
YORK.
YORK. 7:00 P.M. AT NIGHT, WHEN THE
SHIFTS CHANGE, IS THE ONE BRIGHT
MOMENT.
MOMENT. TELL US ABOUT IT.
>> WELL, AT 7:00 IN A LOT OF
NEIGHBORHOODS IN NEW YORK, AND
IN A LOT OF CITIES AROUND THE
WORLD AND IN THIS COUNTRY,
PEOPLE GO TO THEIR WINDOWS,
THEIR STOOPS, THEIR ROOFTOPS,
AND THEY START CHEERING.
CHEERING FOR PEOPLE THEY CAN’T
NECESSARILY SEE.
NECESSARILY SEE. FOR EMT PEOPLE, FOR DOCTORS, FOR
NURSES, FOR MEDICS, FOR PEOPLE
TRYING TO SAVE OUR LIVES.
PEOPLE WHO ARE BRINGING INGING F
OUR HOMES.
OUR HOMES. PEOPLE WHO ARE DRIVING TRUCKS.
PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING ESSENTIAL
SERVICES THAT WE REQUIRE, THAT
THIS COUNTRY REQUIRES, AND THEY
SHOW SUCH ENORMOUS BRAVERY.
THEY DON’T DENY WHAT’S GOING ON.
WHAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW IS A
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
WHO BEGAN HIS NATIONAL ASSENT AT
THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL
CONVENTION SAYING, "I ALONE CAN
DO IT."
DO IT." REMEMBER THAT, JOE?
I ALONE CAN DO IT.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> SURE DO.
>> THE ERA THEN ENDS WITH, "I
TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY."
I ALONE CAN DO IT.
I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY.
YET, MY CITY AND YOUR CITY IS
BEING SAVED BY PEOPLE WHO TAKE
THE ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY.
THAT’S WHAT WE’RE CHEERING AT
7:00.
7:00. AND WE FEEL HUMILIATED BY HAVING
A PRESIDENT WHO DENIES SCIENCE,
WHO MAKES JOKES ABOUT MODELS,
WHO TELLS US THAT HE IS NUMBER
ONE ON FACEBOOK AND THAT HIS
RATINGS ARE SO GREAT.
IT IS HUMILIATING TO LIVE UNDER
SUCH A LEADER.
AND THE CONSEQUENCES ARE SO
IMMENSE.
IMMENSE. WHAT DAVID IGNATIUS WAS
DESCRIBING WITH THE CAPTAIN OF
THAT AIRCRAFT CARRIER, WHICH IS
ONE ANECDOTE, ONE HUMILIATING
ANECDOTE IN A THOUSAND.
EVERY BOOK THAT’S BEEN WRITTEN,
EVERY HONEST BOOK WRITTEN ABOUT
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
DESCRIBES THIS.
DESCRIBES THIS. ONE INCIDENT AFTER ANOTHER OF A
NATION BEING LED BY AN EMPTY
SOUL, BY SOMEONE WHO DENIES
SCIENCE, WHO MOCKS SCIENCE, WHO
CHOOSES TO HUMILIATE THE PRESS
RATHER THAN TELL THE TRUTH TO
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
THAT IS A PRESIDENCY WITH
CONSEQUENCES IN HUMAN LIVES, IN
NATIONAL SPIRIT.
NATIONAL SPIRIT. SO AT 7:00, WITH E CHEER ITS
OPPOSITE.
OPPOSITE. >> DAVID, YOU WROTE SUCH A
WARPING.
WARPING. WE TALKED ABOUT IT.
THE NIGHT OF THE ELECTION, THE
NIGHT DONALD TRUMP GOT ELECTED
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
YOU TALKED ABOUT, BASICALLY
WARNED ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT
HAVE HAPPENED OVER THE PAST
THREE AND A HALF YEARS.
THE THING WE’VE BEEN FIXATED ON
IS DONALD TRUMP GETTING AWAY
WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING.
WITH HIS CORE OF SUPPORTERS AND
THE PRESIDENT INIFFA INFAMOUSLY
HE COULD SHOOT SOMEONE ON FIFTH
AVENUE AND GET AWAY WITH IT.
HIS SUPPORTERS WOULD STILL
SUPPORT HIM.
SUPPORT HIM. IT IS INTERESTING THOUGH, AND
THIS IS SOMETHING MIKA AND I
HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WHILE I
DON’T BELIEVE THE PRESS
CONFERENCES, THE TWO-HOUR
RAMBLINGS OF MISINFORMATION AND
LIES AND TWISTED TRUTHS, WHILE I
DON’T BELIEVE THOSE SHOULD GO
ON, IT’S NOT ONLY BAD FOR THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE TO BE WATCHING
THAT, BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM LESS
CONFIDENCE IN THEIR PRESIDENT.
IT IS NOT ONLY PADBAD FOR THE WO
TO SEE HOW ILL-EQUIPPED THE
AMERICAN PRESIDENT IS FOR THIS.
BUT EVEN POLITICALLY FOR HIMSELF
HIMSELF, IT IS BAD FOR HIM.
IT SERVES NOTHING BUT HIS EGO.
YOU LOOK AT A POLL OUT OF
FLORIDA WHERE HE IS LOSING TO
JOE BIDEN BY 6 POINTS.
THE TAKEAWAY FROM THAT POLL FOR
ME IS THAT IN THE STATE OF
FLORIDA, THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN
HIS STRONGEST SWING STATE, 56%
OF FLORIDIANS SAY THEY DON’T
TRUST WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS
TELLING THEMG T THEMTELL
ING THEM ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.
MAYBE HE GETS AWAY WITH SHOOTING
SOMEBODY ON FIFTH AVENUE, BUT HE
DOESN’T GET AWAY WITH SHOWING
HIS IGNORANCE FOR TWO HOURS
EVERY NIGHT.
EVERY NIGHT. THAT’S STARTING TO SHOW UP IN
POLLS FROM WISCONSIN DOWN TO
FLORIDA.
FLORIDA. IS THIS WHERE, AS YOU SAID, THE
TRUMP PRESIDENCY ENDS?
>> WELL, I DON’T KNOW.
THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY ENDS WHEN
IT ENDS.
IT ENDS. I MEAN THE EVERYRA OF
SELF-CONFIDENCE, THAT I ALONE
CAN FIX IT.
THE ERA CAME OUT OF THAT.
>> THAT’S WHAT I MEANT.
I’M SORRY.
I’M SORRY. >> BUT I DO THINK THAT
PRESIDENCIES DON’T END UNTIL
THEY END AT THE POLLING PLACE.
OR IF THERE HAD BEEN AN
IMPEACHMENT CONVICTION.
IMPEACHMENT CONVICTION. THAT’S IT.
THAT’S IT. AND SO IF WE’VE LEARNED ANYTHING
IN THIS ERA, IT’S THAT TRUMP’S
CAPACITY TO MOBILIZE HIS BASE IS
REMARKABLE.
REMARKABLE. LOOK, IF YOU GO ON ANY SOCIAL
MEDIA, IF YOU GO ON TWITTER, FOR
EXAMPLE, AND PLUG IN THE WORD
"FAUCI," FOR EXAMPLE, DON’T
EXPECT TO SEE ALL HEROIC
COMMENTS ABOUT TONY FAUCI AND
HIS ABILITY TO TELL THE TRUTH.
YOU WILL SEE -- NOT THAT TWITTER
IS NECESSARILY A POLL, BUT IT
TELLS YOU SOMETHING.
PERSON AFTER PERSON AFTER PERSON
WHO LEAVES CONSPIRACY THEORIES
ABOUT FAUCI, THAT HE IS TRYING
TO MAKE MONEY AFTEROFF A EVACUAT
HE’S TRYING TO STALL THE
MARKETS, OR THAT HE IS A HILLARY
CLINTON LOYALIST.
CLINTON LOYALIST. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SEEM TO
BELIEVE THIS STUFF UNTIL THE
VERY END.
VERY END. PART OF THE HORRIBLE PART OF
THIS PRESIDENCY IS THAT RATHER
THAN HAVE A PRESIDENT THAT
SPEAKS THE TRUTH, TRIES TO
COMMUNICATE WITH ALL SIDES,
DOESN’T DENY SCIENCE, IS THAT HE
IS DISTORTING INFORMATION.
HE IS CONFUSING THE NATION,
SETTING IT INTO A STATE OF
IMBALANCE.
IMBALANCE. DAVID IGNATIUS WAS DESCRIBING
THE SITUATION ON THE AIRCRAFT
CARRIER.
CARRIER. WHY DID THE SECRETARY OF THE
NAVY BEHAVE THE WAY HE DID?
HE FELT HE WAS EXPECTED TO BY
THE CULTURE OF THE TRUMP
PRESIDENCY.
PRESIDENCY. AND THE PEOPLE THAT WERE WILLING
TO DEFIY THAT, OR FINESSE IT, AR
GONE.
GONE. MONTH AFTER MONTH, WE TALKED
ABOUT THE SO-CALLED GROWN-UPS IN
THE ROOM.
THE ROOM. THEY WERE PEOPLE I DIDN’T AGREE
WITH ON POLICY, GOD KNOWS, BUT
THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE
CAPABLE OF OR TRIED TO REIN IN A
PRESIDENT WHO IS AS BAD AS BAD
CAN BE.
CAN BE. THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONE.
>> AND THERE --
>> HERE IS WHERE WE ARE PAYING
THE PRICE.
THE PRICE. >> DAVID REMNICK, ONE OF THE
STARKEST EXAMPLES OF THAT HAS TO
DO WITH THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH
AND HUMAN SERVICES, WHO REALLY
SHOULD BE THE FOREFRONT OF THIS
CRISIS, INSTEAD OF THE
PRESIDENT’S SON-IN-LAW, WHO,
LAST TIME WE CHECKED, WAS TRYING
TO BRING ABOUT MIDDLE EAST
PEACE.
PEACE. AND SO YOU HAVE THE SECRETARY --
>> WHICH SEEMS TO BE FUNNY, BUT
IT’S NOT FUNNY.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. SO YOU HAVE THE SECRETARY OF
HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES IN
EARLY JANUARY, I THINK IT WAS
JANUARY THE 3rd, PERHAPS IT WAS
JANUARY THE 1st, WAS WARNED BY
THE CDC OF THIS COMING VOIIRUS,
THE CORONAVIRUS.
THE CORONAVIRUS. OF COURSE, THE INTEL AGENCIES
WERE WARNING THE PRESIDENT IN
EARLY FEBRUARY.
EARLY FEBRUARY. ACCORDING TO REPORTS, IT TOOK
THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND
HUMAN SERVICES TWO WEEKS TO GET
DONALD TRUMP ON THE TELEPHONE,
TO WARN HIM OF THE COMING
EPIDEMIC, SOON TO BE PANDEMIC.
PAUSE HE
PAUSE HE BECAUSE HE HAD A BAD
RELATIONSHIP WITH TRUMPDONALD TR
WHO WAS ANGRY AT HIM BECAUSE HE
SUGGESTED THAT FLAVORED VAPING
BE BANNED.
BE BANNED. WHEN HE FINALLY GOT THE
PRESIDENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE
CORONAVIRUS SWEEPING THE GLOBE,
AND THE DANGERS TO THE UNITED
STATES, THIS FEAR THAT HE SAID
THE YEAR BEFORE HAD KEPT HIM UP
AT NIGHT, THE PRESIDENT DIDN’T
WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
CORONAVIRUS.
CORONAVIRUS. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> HE WAS ANGRY AT HIM AND
ASKED, "WHEN ARE WE GOING TO
HAVE FLAVORED VAPING PRODUCTS
BACK ON THE MARKET?"
AFTERWARDS, THE SECRETARY OF
HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES ASKED
AN ASSOCIATE, BECAUSE HE WAS SO
WORRIED, HOW DO I COMMUNICATE
WITH HIM?
WITH HIM? HOW DO I GET THE TRUTH TO HIM?
HOW DO I GET HIM TO UNDERSTAND
THIS?
THIS? AND THAT FOLLOWS UP ON WHERE YOU
SAID WE FIND OURSELVES AS A
NATION.
NATION. THE CONSEQUENCES ARE JUST
UNIMAGINABLY BAD.
UNIMAGINABLY BAD. >> THIS IS WHERE WE WERE FROM
DAY ONE.
DAY ONE. THIS IS WHERE WE WERE FROM DAY
ONE.
ONE. LOOK, EVEN IN THE BEST OF
CIRCUMSTANCES, PEOPLE HAVE A
HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING REALITY.
REMEMBER RONALD REAGAN ON AIDS.
IT TOOK A LONG, LONG TIME FOR
THAT ADMINISTRATION TO ACT WITH
COMPASSION OR ANY SENSE OF
REALISM.
REALISM. IT WAS A DENIAL OF THIS THING
BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A
GAY CAPPSNCER, A MARGINAL THING.
DP A
DP A WE HAVE THAT IN OUR PAST, THAT
UGLINESS, AND MANY LIVES WERE
LOST BECAUSE OF THE SLOWNESS TO
ACT ON SCIENCE, ON FACT.
LOOK AT WHAT IS IN OUR FUTURE.
AND IN OUR PRESENT, IN TERMS OF
CLIMATE CHANGE, DENIALISM.
THAT’S THE PHRASE OF MICHAEL
SPECTER’S GREAT BOOK ON THIS,
HUMAN CAPACITY TO DENY WHAT IS
IN FRONT OF OUR FACE.
LOOK AT THE PRICE WE’RE ALREADY
PAYING FOR THE DENIALISM OF
CLIMATE CHANGE.
CLIMATE CHANGE. AGAIN, THESE ARE SCARY ISSUES,
BUT THESE ARE THE ISSUES THAT
ADULT POLITICIANS, WHETHER
THEY’RE DEMOCRATS OR
REPUBLICANS, MUST TAKE ON.
IT’S NOT AS IF THESE WASHRNINGS
CAME IN JANUARY.
FAUCI AND OTHER SCIENTISTS HAVE
BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE POTENTIAL
FOR PANDEMIC TO DO THIS KINED OF
DAMAGE FOR YEARS.
FOR YEARS.
FOR YEARS. THEY’VE BEEN SHOVED TO THE BACK
BURNER.
BURNER. THE ATTENTION GIVEN WAS MUCH
GREATER IN THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION AND THE BUSH
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, BUDGETS
WERE CUT.
WERE CUT. THEY WERE IGNORED.
THEY WERE SILENCED.
THEY WERE SHUNNED TO THE SIDE
UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE.
NOW, WE’RE IN A SITUATION WHERE
WE HOPE AND PRAY THAT ONE FINE
DAY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES DOESN’T WAKE UP AND FIRE
TONY FAUCI.
TONY FAUCI. WE ALL KNOW IT’S POSSIBLE.
WE ALL KNOW IT’S POSSIBLE PAUSE
IT IS PERFECTLY CONSISTENT WITH
THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR, THIS KIND
OF EMPTINESS OF MIND AND SOUL.
>> AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT THIS
MORNING, 2005, GEORGE W. BUSH
WARNING ABOUT THE COMING
PANDEMIC.
PANDEMIC. 2015, OF COURSE, YOU HAD BILL
GATES WARNING OF THE COMING
PANDEMIC.
PANDEMIC. YOU HAD LAST YEAR, SECRETARY
AZAR TELLING A GROUP OF PEOPLE
THAT THE NEXT PANDEMIC WAS WHAT
KEPT HIM AND EVERYBODY IN THE
ROOM UP AT NIGHT.
YOU HAD THE WARNINGS EVEN FROM
INSIDE THE ADMINISTRATION IN
JANUARY.
JANUARY. DAVID BRINGS UP A GREAT POINT.
IT’S BEEN LIKE THIS FROM THE
BEGINNING.
BEGINNING. WHAT HAVE WE HEARD FOR THREE AND
A HALF YEARS?
WE’VE HEARD THAT THESE ARE ALL
SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS OVER THE
PAST THREE AND A HALF YEARS.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE COMES A
CRISIS, A CHALLENGE FROM THE
OUTSIDE, HOW DOES DONALD TRUMP
RESPOND THEN?
RESPOND THEN? I REMEMBER VERY EARLY ON, DONALD
TRUMP -- REMEMBER, DONALD TRUMP
WAS GIVEN THAT BRIEFING BY THE
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, JAMES
MATTIS.
MATTIS. IT WAS JUST A HISTORY LESSON
FROM 1945 FORWARD.
THE PRESIDENT GOT ANGRY AT THE
FACTS.
FACTS. AT THE HISTORY.
THAT’S WHEN THEN SECRETARY OF
STATE REX TILLERSON CALLED HIM A
NAME THAT WE CAN’T REPEAT.
DAVID IS EXACTLY RIGHT, IT’S
BEEN LIKE THIS FROM THE
BEGINNING.
BEGINNING. IT’S JUST MORE PRONOUNCED NOW
BECAUSE, OF COURSE, IT’S
SOMETHING THAT IS NOT A
SELF-INFLICTED WOUND.
SELF-INFLICTED WOUND. IT IS A VIRUS.
NOW, AMERICANS ARE PAYING FOR
THE FACT THAT HE CONTINUES TO
HAVE THIS TWISTED, THIS
DISTORTED REALITY.