(DOWNBEAT MUSIC)
MAX FRASER: This is the first in a series
of Lighthouse talks that Dezeen is staging
in partnership with Bentley,
and it's part of a three-year partnership
that will see Bentley working with Dezeen
to support and inspire the next generation
of design talents
as well as champion design excellence
and sustainable innovations.
We will hear various interpretations
of the word 'luxury' in 2023 and consider innovations
in biomaterials and fabrication as well
as the role of circularity in the supply chain.
So I'm joined by a great panel this morning.
At the end here we have Ilse Crawford.
She's the designer and founder of Studioilse in London.
Next to her is Chris Cooke,
head of Bentley Design Collaborations.
Next to him, Monique Zappala
is the Art Creative Director at Bentley Home
and next to me is Maurizio Montalti.
He's the Chairman and Co-founder of Sqim.
I'm interested in your definition
of what luxury means today.
CHRIS COOKE: For me, it's something that really exudes quality.
I think it needs to be something
that is ultimately unique and beautiful.
But I think the real key message
with what makes a luxury material
luxury material is human interaction, human investment.
But I think ultimately if it's about emotional expression,
it's about engaging in people
and getting people
to fall in love with something
that you are creating,
something that means something to them.
I think the luxury industry
has changed a lot over the years,
certainly since I've been kind of working in it.
I think it started off quite extrovert.
Luxury was an extrovert statement almost
as wealth and a little bit materialistic at times.
But I think it's evolved.
ILSE CRAWFORD: I think often when people discuss luxury
it's as though it's a fixed thing.
But I mean that's patently not true.
If you look at the historical cycle of luxury,
it always starts as a sort of vision of the future.
It becomes developed and then it gets hollowed out.
Now, our clients at least, and I would say they are ahead
of the curve, whether in commercial or in private,
are looking certainly at how to be sustainable.
At the same time, they also want it,
usually but not only, to be rather sophisticated.
MONIQUE ZAPPALA: Luxury of course for me is authenticity.
So that's the first thing.
It really, it has to be real.
Luxury has to be real.
It's behind people.
It's behind materials.
It's behind something very different.
But to make it different, it has to be real.
The Bentley Motors, the beautiful materials
that they have inside,
it was actually interpreting, not the car
but what this client wants to live.
What can we give?
Where can we take them?
What can be this journey?
So getting out of the car, taking the beauty that was
in the car and taking it to a fantastic journey that's home.
That's giving him actually the vibe of where a home can be.
MAURIZIO MONTALTI: For me, luxury in 2023
and hopefully farther,
it's about the encounter.
It's about the spirit of cooperation.
It's about establishing new symbiotic relationships also
at industrial level with other entities
in order to really trigger a positive change.
MAX FRASER: Let's talk about some of the,
maybe some of the materials
that still dominate,
I would say, the high-end luxury market.
Monique, how do you protect or prevent the integrity
of the luxury market from being eroded?
MONIQUE ZAPPALA: First, in first case it's research.
I would say research behind this
and the idea of the craftsmanship.
This year we worked with the beautiful material
with Riccardo Cavaciocchi that's here,
that we all have this sample
in our hand as well
which is a paper factor.
Behind this, there's hands,
there's someone that's moulding this
that's someone that's having a story.
And the beauty that I really fell in love
with this material is who's making it?
Who's actually working with this material?
MAX FRASER: Could you just explain how it is made?
MONIQUE ZAPPALA: When I went to go see this
beautiful artistic laboratory
and I saw these people actually putting in moulding
and it was like they were making dough.
It was something amazing.
I would just say that I fell in love with this material
that it is cellulose,
that it is something that his family actually,
his mother was restoring
and using this very antique,
where it starts in the south of Italy.
MAX FRASER: It's called paper marble.
RICCARDO CAVACIOCCHI: The process is quite simple
on the way how
we finalise it because we don't have emissions.
It's all the majority is a cold process,
which we are trying always to push and push more
because of course we are developing all.
We are involved
in the process and more, let's say materials coming
or cellulose fibres,
let's say coming from post-consumer, post-industrial,
which is construction, food.
So there is always anatomy between, you know
wood and food and we create always new,
let's say formulas with new ingredients.
MAX FRASER: There's been a lot of reference
to the hand of course
but I was wondering maybe if we consider some
of the newer digital technology,
fabrication technologies that are now available.
How is that moving the story on, Chris?
CHRIS COOKE: I think that you need to have a balance
between things that are very precise
and also things that are very beautiful.
I think, you know,
it's also nice when you also see little kind
of imperfections in final surfaces
because you know they've been made by hand and by love.
But I think, you know
future technologies and in terms of digitalisation,
yeah one thing is that we can be more precise
with the surfaces we're creating.
That helps us in terms of that save us a bit more time
in terms of developing surfaces moving forward.
We were seeing a rise certainly over the last few years
of new technologies coming forward
that are linked to digital.
So for things like 3D printing for example,
I mean 3D printing
isn't really a luxury manufacturing process.
People 3D print in their bedrooms now.
But what's really interesting about the shift of that kind
of dynamic is that it changes the onus from the craft
being involved in the manufacturing process,
which is more traditional,
to the craft being involved
in the digital process
because you know that level of craft,
that level of digital art, digital creation
is still a form of craft.
To create these kind
of crazy and really exciting structures that you can
with 3D printing, you have to end up,
we've done it a few times,
but we've had to write algorithms
to actually create these surfaces
and that, again, it's not easy.
It's a form of craftsmanship.
So I think that that's a very exciting kind of avenue
to move down and I think that's something
that the luxury industry will continue
to investigate in.
MAX FRASER: How do you feel like some of those brands
are responding
to the population's kind of increasing awareness
and indeed concern of their ecological footprint?
MAURIZIO MONTALTI: We can go back to the very ever-used
and strongly misused term bio, the suffix bio,
which tends to confuse every single body
because nowadays nobody knows anymore
what does it mean that something is biological,
bio-based, biodegradable.
And, you know, there are a lot of definitions
that tend to create a lot of confusion
and this is also the case within the brands.
ILSE CRAWFORD: In a lot of our projects, we work
with smaller suppliers where we have visible supply chains
and that's, I think where things get really fascinating
because it's a constant reminder of how we've, you know,
basically the commodification of everything
for the last few hundred years when we talk
about the noble materials.
But every material is noble.
All materials can be beautiful
if they are looked at differently, if they are touched
by the hand, if the skin is there, you know,
it's what we do with them that makes the difference.
MAX FRASER: And I'd love you to talk
about the work that you're doing.
You are dealing with really the origin of things
the origin of life, which is
of course mycelium where we all and everything comes from.
MAURIZIO MONTALTI: I mean, let's start from
the point of view of
where do things originate from?
The soil.
So what you're looking at here is essentially
a hundred percent mycelium of a specific species
and strain that has formed a mat.
It's a little bit of a dense mat
and we can pass it around.
So what we do is actually, again, guiding the growth
of the fungus, allowing it to structure a material
that is a hundred percent natural,
a hundred percent biodegradable
and yet extremely consistent.
We take, we create, we form these materials through,
again different custom-made fermentors,
and eventually we subject them to treatments
rooted in green chemistry
where we stabilise and eventually, where they're needed
enrich the materials in order to become...
Now here you can, you have some different examples
to become something like this, which are materials
that can be fully usable.
The value of imperfection,
the value of uniqueness of every single piece being
consistent in terms of technical
and experiential properties, but unique
in terms of also the look for instance.
MAX FRASER: The value of imperfection.
I love that and I think that leads really nicely
onto to Ilse 'cause that's something that
I feel you celebrate a lot in the work that you do.
ILSE CRAWFORD: And I think we are collectively
pretty clueless
about materials and how they arrive in our world.
About wool, it's usually bleached
and then dyed a natural colour
so that you get the standardised product
that everybody in our market demands,
which is clearly bonkers.
We said, "OK, let's ask the producers what they
"would love to work with," the producers of these carpets.
And it was really interesting.
It boiled down very simply to no bleach, no dye,
locally sourced and hand-spun.
If you want to say there's a downside,
is it's not perfect.
It wasn't an instant thing.
For people to recognise that
while they would choose a sample in New York, let's say,
the carpet when it arrived might be slightly
different because guess what?
The sheep was different.
The place they lived was different
and we can't let go of this idea of control actually.
MAX FRASER: Smells wonderful.
How do you respond
to that notion of perfection and consistency?
MONIQUE ZAPPALA: It's two sides of the letter.
I remember some vases that were, actually
we still have them, made in Milano
and of course they're blown by mouth
and some client said,
"But they're not perfect and there's bubbles."
And it was really difficult to say,
"Do you really know how this is made?
"Because how can this be the same?
"Why does something have to be so perfect?"
And, but it is the huge challenge.
CHRIS COOKE: Client will see maybe a piece of stitching
and you'll see a slight wobble in one
of the stitches and they'll say, "That's not perfect."
And you have to say that, you know,
"The reason that's not perfect
"is because someone's made that.
"Someone who has taken years
"to learn their craft has put their heart and soul into that
"and they've made that little wobble
"and that imperfection is how you can tell."
MAX FRASER: And then what about sort of scepticism
around longevity and durability?
Certainly within the car market, I would imagine.
CHRIS COOKE: The automotive industry is just famous
for the stringent level of testing that goes
into any material that's selected.
I mean there's just a long, it takes years to get a material
from, "OK, that looks interesting, could we use that?"
Down to, it's in a production line
and it's being moved
into a customer's home.
And we lose a lot of materials that way
and we lose a lot of the creativity that way.
What's really nice about the fact that we are
a lifestyle brand and the fact that we have the ability
to work outside of automotive so well and so creatively
perhaps we can lead the automotive industry
on some of the things that we're creating.
MONIQUE ZAPPALA: When we see a piece
when we design a piece together
when we choose the materials, it always has to aim
at the end that it has to be Bentley.
So even if we are looking
in new materials that can't go inside of a car
it's a little bit like our collection.
It's not living inside of a car, it's out of the car.
So that's when it's named Bentley.
So it's our product.
MAURIZIO MONTALTI: The point is what is the trade-off
that you are able to go through?
What kind of a compromise,
that always sounds like a dirty word,
are you able to embrace
without completely jeopardising the origin
of your initiative?
MAX FRASER: Some of you might have some questions
that you'd like to ask.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: So if everybody's looking and striving
for perfect, how do you brand imperfection?
CHRIS COOKE: We go back to Riccardo.
You know what you're creating with the paper marble,
this is all done by hand, by a craftsman
and every single panel is completely unique to you.
You own the only one that looks exactly
like that and that's so special.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: How do you see it happening around you,
this change in production processes
that will have to be different in the future?
MAURIZIO MONTALTI: People keep talking most of the times
about materials which are zero impact
or that are even carbon negative and they can exist
but mostly often every process embeds energy.
There is energy everywhere and that is why no materials,
when you obtain a material that could be truly
responsible also when discarded, there is no justification
for you to keep perpetrating, in this case as a user,
that limited approach that has to do with getting rid
of things just to move on and getting more.
Again, it's like, natural doesn't mean...
It's not a justification
for keeping perpetrating a cultural approach that brought us
to the stage where we are today.
MAX FRASER: I think this conversation could go
on all day and I wish it could.
It's been really fantastic to talk to the four of you.
Thank you so much.
MONIQUE ZAPPALA: Thank you.
MAX FRASER: Please put your hands together
for a wonderful panel.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)