Geoff: Let's turn now to some of
the questions coming out of the
trial of actors Johnny Depp and
amber heard.
A Virginia jury yesterday
ordered heard to pay Depp, her
ex-husband, $15 million in
damages in a defamation case.
The jury also ordered Depp to
pay heard $2 million in damages.
Depp sued his ex-wife for
defamation in 2019, after she
published a piece the year
before about her experiences as
a survivor of domestic abuse.
John yang looks at some concerns
over the fallout from this
trial.
John: Geoff, Johnny Depp sued
his ex-wife over a Washington
post op-ed in which she referred
to herself as a public figure
representing domestic abuse.
While heard never mentioned Depp
by name, the actor argued it was
clear she was referring to him
and said it cost him work.
During the trial, heard
testified that Depp had
sexually, physically, and
verbally her.
Depp denied any physical or
sexual abuse, and accused heard
of domestic abuse against him.
The six weeks of testimony
generated international
headlines.
And many domestic violence
experts and advocates have
concerns not only about the
verdict, but about how the trial
played out.
Ruth Glenn is president and CEO
of the national coalition
against domestic violence.
Thank you for being with us
first of all, what do you think
the message was not just of the
verdict, but what went on in the
courtroom, and what went on
outside the courtroom on social
media?
Ruth: I think --first of all,
thank you so much for having me.
But I would say that what we
witnessed during this case in
the courtroom and certainly
outside of the courtroom, was a
miscarriage of understanding the
dynamics of domestic violence.
We watched what was occurring in
the courtroom, which was not
really kind of focusing on what
was the defamation issue, which
was another issue, but also not
dealing with or understanding in
that court system and process
what the dynamics of domestic
violence are.
Outside of the courtroom was
something I do not think many of
us have ever seen before, which
is Depp supporters really taking
a narrative and exerting public
opinion on social media and
otherwise that may have impacted
the results, the verdict of this
trial.
John: Talk about that, what was
going on in social media.
Heard said she received hundreds
of death threats a day,
countless social media posts
mocking her testimony.
What do you make of all that,
where did that come from?
Ruth: You know, I firmly
believe, as does this
organization, and certainly is
up for debate, but I believe
there was a machine behind this
which was, first and foremost,
was a pr and a strategy and
attorneys on Mr. Depp's side
that understood they had to do
some of this to ensure that he
had the support from his fans.
To put it quite simply, it is
certainly more complicated on
taht side around strategy.
Secondly, the thing that was
most concerning for us around
here was the ability to further
control whom we believe is a
victim of domestic violence.
Because we have the expertise
and understanding that the
dynamics of domestic violence,
and seeing all of the testimony,
the evidence, and watching even
the courtroom interactions and
terms and such that were used
when you are going to make
domestic violence essential
theme to this, then we should
have had domestic violence
experts in that courtroom.
The court of public opinion,
which was mostly made up of Mr.
Depp's fans, then we dealt with
not having domestic violence
experts there helping lead the
conversation around domestic
violence.
John: What message do you think
this sense -- we know that
domestic violence, sexual
assault, are underreported
crimes.
What message does this send to
someone who may be experiencing
this now and trying to figure
out whether to speak up, whether
to make the accusation?
Ruth: I think it sends the
message that as far as we think
we have come as a society and
particularly as a nation, that
we have not come that far.
We still have to navigate some
of the issues that have always
prevented us from being able to
speak out of being survivors and
victims.
Which is, you will not be
believed, you don't have a right
to voice it, and unless you are
a perfect victim, a victim that
is palatable to society and fits
within whatever that stereotype
is, it's probably best that you
not speak.
I do want to be clear though, I
do not want this to be a turning
point for that.
Io think that there is hope
and this is a blip that will and
may prevent some chilling
effect, but we are going to have
to keep moving forward and
allowing victims and survivors
to have their voice and talk
about the abuse they have
endured.
John: You talk about the
stereotypical abuse of
survivors, someone who is
palatable to the general public.
Talk of the bit more about that,
and wire -- and where does amber
heard fit into that.
Ruth: The stereotype of the
victim, I used this analysis --
this analogy earlier today.
You see the billboard by the bus
stop of the victim who has the
blackeye and she has three
children held close to her, and
she may be your everyday what
woman -- white woman who has
just had a series of bad things
happen to her, including
domestic violence.
I would say to all of us that
that is a stereotypical view.
Amber heard did not fit in that
stereotype, and most victims and
survivors do not I think this is
one of the few times that we saw
where she absolutely did not fit
into the stereotype.
John: Ruth Glen, thank you very
much.