Today we're going to talk about making friends in America.
This is something a lot of you guys have asked me about.
David, I got an email today
from a Rachel's English Academy student named Clarence
who was saying he goes to school in the US
but all of his friends that he's making
are other international students.
And he says they're great people, they're wonderful friends,
but he wants more opportunity to practice his English
and to engage with Americans while he's here.
And he was asking for some advice
about making friends in America.
And it reminded me of the podcast that we made,
which I'll play at the end of this video,
so you won't have to click anywhere to find it,
but I also thought it's worth revisiting.
It's a big topic.
It's a really big topic, yeah.
So I thought we could start a little bit
by talking about our best friends, how we've made them,
and then also now at this stage in life
how it's harder to make friends,
I think we're both finding,
and we can sort of talk about ways
to connect with Americans.
So out of your very best friends,
you have different sets of people, wouldn't you say?
Yeah, I think that that's right.
And where did you make your best friends?
They come from a couple different areas
and stages of life, I guess.
From high school and college, there's a couple of people
that are even to this day very close friends, actually,
my closest friends, I would say.
And then I also have some very good friends
who I've met through work, so, later in life.
And then, just meeting people who are friends of friends,
so some kind of connection through a shared friend.
And again, that one was later in life.
that's a good point.
You brought up two potential ways to make friends.
First of all, you mentioned school, which I think
a lot of us have made a lot of friends in school.
The reason is you're seeing the same people over and over
every day, that helps build friendships,
but you also mentioned work,
and I think a lot of people watching this video
might be people who live in the United States,
work in the United States, but have a hard time
taking the co-worker level to a friendship level.
What would you say about that?
Would you have any advice about how to approach somebody
in a more formal situation to turn it into something
that has a casual side as well?
Yeah, I think it is challenging.
I think it's challenging for Americans too.
One of the things that I've been thinking about,
as we've been preparing, is that it's tempting sometimes
to say no to an invitation
if you're not feeling the whole way comfortable.
Invitations tend to come out of the blue.
And a non-native speaker might especially
if they're not feeling really confident in their English
might especially have a hesitation there.
Right, so I think an important thing
is to say to yourself right now
the next time that I'm approached by somebody at work
who says, "Hey, do you want to go to a movie?
"Hey, do you want to get a drink after work?
"Hey, some of us are gonna go to happy hour on Friday
"after work, do you wanna come along?"
It might not be somebody that you know very well
or again, you might have that instantaneous sort of,
"Oh my god, they're all gonna be speaking really quickly,
"I'm not gonna feel comfortable."
But I think it's really important in those spots
to push yourself to say,
"Yep, sure, that sounds great, I'd love to."
Knowing that at worst, it's gonna be an opportunity
to really practice your English with native speakers,
and at best, it's gonna be a chance
to really connect with people in a way that's beyond work.
And if a co-worker has invited you to do something,
then I think that's a sign
that that's somebody you can feel comfortable with,
if you don't understand, saying,
"I'm sorry, you're speaking a little too fast.
"What did you say?"
Or something like that.
They've invited you into a more intimate relationship,
a less formal relationship, so I think you can feel free
to take advantage of that and ask for clarification.
Maybe they use an idiom or a phrasal verb you don't know,
great opportunity for you to ask.
Now, let's flip this around
and say no one's asking you at work to do something.
What about starting it yourself?
I think a great thing that you can look for
as you're wanting to connect with more people,
whether it's at work or maybe you go to church
or you have some sort of religious group
that you participate with, if you're looking,
any group of people that you're seeing regularly,
if you're looking to take it a step further,
I think always look for
some common interest that you might have.
So for example, if at the office you come to realize
that your co-worker is really into the Marvel action movies
or whatever and you are too, discuss it, talk about it,
and then maybe at some point say,
"Hey, let's go see the new one", or whatever.
Find something that you already have in common
and then use that as a way
to invite somebody to do something.
And also, don't be afraid to ask somebody.
It's not unusual in a work environment
to see if a co-worker wants to do something outside of work.
So, definitely, in America,
that's a pretty common thing to happen.
So definitely feel free,
or even if you're just having a good conversation
to just say, "Oh, do you want to meet up after work
"for a little bit?
"Do you have time?"
Or something like that.
I think also realizing that somebody has a common interest
even at just during that conversation,
that means that the person is gonna be really interested
in what you have to say.
That I think means it's a good time to say to yourself,
okay, this person is probably gonna be fine with me saying,
"Hey, I didn't quite catch that, can you say that again?"
Or even after you've said something
that you're not sure is quite right,
that kind of a person is a good person to say,
"Hey, did I say that right?
"I wasn't sure if I said that right."
I think making people your conversation partner,
it often just takes a little bit of courage in saying,
"Hey, did I say that right?
"Hey, would you mind just saying that again?
"I wasn't quite sure I caught it."
Almost always people are really willing to jump in and say,
"Oh, actually, yeah, you almost had it right,
"but there was this one little part,
"let me tell you about it."
People love to help.
- And they might not correct you if not prompted.
- I would say that even stronger,
they're likely to not correct you.
I think Americans are,
I think some cultures would be much more free
to jump in and say, "Oh, you said that a little bit off."
Thinking back to being in Italy,
I feel like Italian culture, it's more kind of out there,
and people might say, "Oh you said that a little bit wrong."
I think Americans are very reticent to initiate that,
but very ready to give you that feedback if you ask for it.
That would be my take on it.
- And this is reminding me, as we're talking about work,
I'm thinking, okay, one of my other students
in Rachel's English Academy, Sam, works in Silicon Valley,
and he was saying so many of his co-workers,
the vast majority were non-native speakers.
And so, even though he was interacting with people
all throughout the day, and he lives in America,
he still felt like he was not immersed in American English,
which he really wanted to be
because he wanted to get better at it.
So this is the same issue that Clarence was having.
All of his friends were international students.
Where are other places?
How can you start relationships with people,
start friendships with people?
I had a couple of ideas.
One of them is, when I was studying in Europe,
the place where I was studying, the Goethe-Institut,
had a program where it matched people
who wanted to learn languages,
so I was matched with somebody who lived there in Germany
that wanted to learn English.
That became a great way for me to practice German
and also to have a friend.
And so I would say look for programs where
maybe there's a language school, let's say you speak Arabic,
find a language school, if they're giving Arabic classes
and especially intermediate or advanced classes,
contact them and say, "I'm a native Arabic speaker.
"Do you have any program
"where you connect your native speakers with Americans?
"'Cause I'd love a language exchange."
It's a possibility.
And then it's really a win-win 'cause you're both invested,
you're both wanting the same thing.
And when you're meeting someone regularly,
it's very possible that a real friendship
can develop, I think.
- Absolutely.
- Another thing that I've talked about before is,
how can you create a space
where you're seeing the same people regularly?
If it's not work, if it's not school,
and there are various clubs,
there's a running club in Philadelphia.
In our neighborhood, there's like a mom's meetup group.
Look for that kind of thing.
What's your interest?
Search for it online,
see if there's a local group where people are meeting up.
There's the the dad's meetup once a month,
that you've been to before.
That's a great way to maybe connect with people
more than once.
And I really think when it comes to friendship,
in the podcast, I was talking about my friend Cara
who will chat up anybody on the subway,
in the line at the grocery store, it doesn't matter,
and she sometimes exchanges numbers
and makes friends with people.
Most people aren't like that.
Most people need a time or two of meeting somebody
in sort of a more structured environment
to let friendship develop. - I think that's right.
Another thing I was thinking about is,
I've played co-ed soccer in an intramural league,
and in that league you can sign up as an individual person,
you don't have to be part of a team already,
and I think this is a pretty big trend in a lot of cities
in the US where all kinds of sports
from kickball and really informal sorts of sports,
all the way up to obviously competitive intramural sports
are happening, I think it's a trend not just in Philadelphia
but people are using the internet to easily sign up
for those kinds of leagues. - Great point.
- And you sign up for something like that,
especially if you sign up as an individual,
you're just gonna get plunked on a team,
and of course that's incredibly terrifying
to show up for the first game,
but it forces you to meet native speakers,
it forces you to use some conversation.
And also, I think that, again, there's sort of a happy hour,
let's grab a drink after the game culture,
in a lot of those leagues and organizations,
and so be ready to say, "Yeah, yeah, I'm in, let's go."
And then, even if it's 10 people,
you don't have to make friends with all of them,
but maybe there's one person
who you kind of have a connection with and you can say,
"Hey, I'll see you next week, it was great to meet you."
Any kind of club or anything that's interesting to you.
- And if sports isn't your thing,
I think there is a lot of gaming,
a lot of stuff set up around gaming,
both traditional games like board games, card games,
and then of course video games, which we know nothing about,
but we know that they're very huge at this point in time.
And that people are going
and watching other people play and stuff.
So, whatever, however you like to spend your time,
try to find a group of people doing the same thing.
So let's get into some things
that are a little bit more American specific.
How do you feel,
do you feel that Americans are approachable?
And if someone approached you,
how would you want them to approach you?
I guess is my question.
Some people, there can be a big cultural unknown,
and someone might say,
"Well, I would never do that in my own country,
"that would be interpreted as this.
"I'm afraid to do that here."
If someone at work, say, wanted to be your friend,
and how would they approach you
in a way that would make you feel open to that,
do you think?
- Yeah, that's actually a really
difficult question to answer, I think.
For me, the default should be to be pretty direct.
"You can be as direct as I am
"new to the culture of making friends in America.
"And it was great talking with you about the movie
"over lunch, would you be open to hanging out sometime?"
I do think that Americans,
compared to a lot of other cultures can come off
as a little bit chilly or standoffish.
But I think that right behind that is a desire to connect,
and I would say being direct is the way to go.
You could sit back and try to figure out,
"Well maybe if I did it this way or this way or this way",
put yourself out there and take on this sort of,
even if you have to fake it,
take on the spirit of courage and directness
and just say, "Hey, would you be up for going
"to lunch sometime?
"Or what about coffee some afternoon?"
You just gotta go for it.
- What do you think about this idea?
I think a lot of people are interested in
things they don't know much about,
and a lot of people love having a hook-up,
someone that knows a lot about something.
What if someone approached you and said,
like let's say a Japanese co-worker, and said,
"Hey, there's this great Japanese restaurant,
"do you want to come with me sometime?
"And I can show you all the best foods."
Or something like that, a way to invite them
into your own culture in a way within America
or to be able to share something unique about yourself
could also be a really great way to pique someone's interest
in you and what you have to offer.
- Yeah, I think that's a great point.
And related, no matter what kind of activity,
if you know that you're interested in going to something
or planning to go to something, you can say,
"Hey, on Friday right after work,
"I'm going to a show that just opened that the museum.
"Any chance you'd like to join me for that?"
Because that gives the person a lot of space to say,
"Oh no, I can't, thanks anyway."
That's a little bit easier than saying,
"Hey, can you and I do something sometime?
"I have a plan, would you like to come with me on it?"
It implies, "I'm going either way."
It makes it more casual.
- And it's also a really good point,
if you find something that's happening locally
that's really interesting,
then that can be part of what's happening.
I personally think a lot of Americans like doing things.
And so the idea of just sitting down to a conversation
with somebody with no purpose
might seem a little bit strange,
but if it's the idea of going
and doing something interesting with someone
that that might be more appealing.
Invite them to, like you said, a museum opening,
or a concert, or in Philadelphia,
there's all sorts of interesting events going on
in the summer outside, this kind of thing.
So that could also be a great way to
make that first ask of somebody,
taking them from a co-worker to hanging out once could be,
invite them into your own culture in some way,
or invite them to go do something really cool
within the city or the place where you live.
So to wrap this up, making friends in America can be hard,
and one thing we didn't get to is that for both you and me,
after college, we've had a hard time making friends,
like where do you meet people?
And this is something I've discussed with other friends too
when they move somewhere new.
So if you're a non-native speaker living in the US
and you're feeling this, you're not alone.
I also feel that it's hard to make friends.
But a couple of ways to try to do that,
find places where you'll be seeing the same people
more than once in a structured environment.
And say yes if you get asked to do something,
try to be outgoing,
and maybe even be the person to make the ask.
And this is something that we've talked about,
as I said, in the podcast and I thought,
I mean, that's been really well received,
I think that's been really helpful for people,
so you don't have to go anywhere to find that,
I don't want to make you click,
we're gonna play it right now.
Keep in mind it's just audio, but we'll play it here,
and if you want a transcript of that podcast,
all of the transcripts from my podcasts are free
and I'll put the link on the screen
and also in the video description,
or you can go download a free transcript of the podcast.
So do you have any other words or ideas of advice for people
who were not born in America, living in America,
trying to connect with Americans?
- Yeah well, no I think, as you were talking, it just,
it brought up for me how much Americans
are looking for connection too.
It might feel one-sided, like,
"Ah, I have to put myself out there,
"and it's not my native language",
but I think as you practice that
and maybe get shot down a couple times, who cares?
I think you'll find that a lot of Americans
are really seeking that kind of more real connection too.
So just kind of trust that and go for it.
- Yes, I think that's a great point,
even though it might not seem like it,
if you're willing to break the ice,
I think you might find that there's a lot of willingness
to connect and to be friends.
- Okay, well David, thanks for joining me
for this conversation about friendships in America.
That's it guys, thanks so much for using Rachel's English,
and stay tuned to listen to that podcast.
You are listening to the Rachel's English Podcast.
I'm so glad to have you here.
In this podcast, we discuss topics in American conversation,
pronunciation and culture.
And today's episode focuses on culture.
If you would like a free transcript for this podcast,
just visit RachelsEnglish.com/podcast
and look for this episode.
Today, I'm here with my husband David.
Hey, David.
- Hey, everybody.
- And we're going to talk about
friendships in America.
David, you have lots of friends.
- I do.
- So I think you're probably gonna have
a lot to add to this one.
- All right.
- So I went to,
the thing that made me think about this podcast
is two different emails that I got.
Actually, one was a comment on YouTube.
And this person whose username is Management Courses said,
"You're so lucky to have friends who are supportive,
"both males and females."
David, this was on a video that I made with Dave at
the 4th of July when we were in Clark Park
talking about 4th of July traditions.
- Right, okay. - Do you remember that video?
- Yeah, I do.
- I'll link to that video
in the show notes, everybody,
but it was me with a friend, who's a man,
discussing what we like to do on the 4th of July.
So this person says, "Can you make a video
"on how to build more supportive friendships?
"What do you do to be a better friend?
"In my culture, after marriage,
"the wife's friendships suffer,
"and you can't keep close friendships with the opposite sex.
"I had the misconception that Americans
don't value friendship,
"or their friendships are not long-lasting, or shallow.
"Your videos showed me the opposite."
So that's great, I'm so glad that my videos showed
that Americans do value friendship,
and that friendships are not just shallow or short-lived.
- Absolutely.
- But so, let's try to talk
a little bit about friendships.
Let's focus in on some of the specific questions.
How to build more supportive friendships?
Now part of what's so great about having David
on this podcast is not only does he have a ton of friends,
but he's also a therapist,
and so he talks to a lot of other people
about their friendships and their relationships in general,
and has a lot of things to say about
this kind of thing, I think.
David, what would you say makes a better friend?
Makes someone a good friend?
- Sure.
First of all I guess while I'm thinking of it,
I think part of what's interesting is that
from a non-native speaker's perspective
or someone who's new to American culture,
I think because of advertising and sort of
just the way things look from the outside,
I think it's easy to assume that for all of us really
that for other people, making friends is really easy.
I think it's something that we feel like
we should be able to do,
well, everybody else is out there having a good time,
look at everybody on TV, when in reality,
I think the opposite is true,
I think the majority of people are either
wishing they had more friendships
or wishing that things about the friendships
that they do have might be a little bit different,
like they often wish that they were more close
with more people.
So I think that's the first thing that popped in my mind
is that a lot of people,
non-native speakers and native speakers alike
struggle with this, even though I don't think,
I mean, I really appreciate the courage in the question
because I don't think a lot of people bring this up.
- Yeah, it's a good point.
I mean as I'm sitting here listening to you talk about this
I'm thinking I could definitely say that this is true
of me living in Philadelphia.
I've been here for three years now
and I'm definitely starting to make some friends
that feel like really, really quality friendships,
but I can't say that I've made any of those by myself.
They're all friends that I made through David,
that David already had established
some sort of a relationship with,
like I haven't met somebody that I have turned
into a friend, really, on my own.
- You've been connected to some friends of friends.
- Yeah. - Also.
- I mean, that's always the end, right?
When you move somewhere new, you look for connections
you have to people that are there already,
but as far as if you were moving to America to go to school
or for a job or something where you didn't already have
anyone established in that town or in that city,
that would make it really hard to know where to start.
And I think for me, I could definitely say as an adult
three years into that experience,
I don't really have people that I have met
because I have been introduced to them in a way other than
through someone I already knew.
- Yeah, I follow.
Right, it's not easy.
- No, it's really but.
But having said that, we do have good friends here
and it is true that Americans do value friendship,
even though probably a lot of people
might like to have more friends
or more closer friendships than they have.
- Yeah, I think to answer that part of her question,
absolutely I think Americans very much value friendships.
Of course, it looks different in in all cultures,
but I think also something,
and the comment is also true that it can,
it can be difficult when it is across gender.
I mean, yes, your video with Dave at the park,
it's a great video and you guys are good friends
and it is not a big deal at all,
but I also think it's not uncommon for that to be
something that causes tension in relationships--
- And complication, yeah, I thought it--
- Not really complication, but tension.
There's a temptation to be distrustful of your partner.
- Yes, but I'm talking about for single people,
there's complication there.
I mean you're talking about if you're married,
then like this person said, after marriage,
then friendship suffers and you can't keep close friends,
keep close friendship with the opposite sex.
- Yeah, I was commenting on that part.
- Okay, so yes, you're right,
it can be complicated if David had,
although you do have really close friends that are women,
and it's not weird for me, yeah,
but I suppose it could be,
depending on if one friendship just really
set out from the rest, stood out from the rest
as being just extra super important to you,
that could be hard for me.
- Well, I'm not saying it should cause tension,
I think it should be the opposite.
I think it should be,
the assumption should be that it's healthy and good and fine
but I'm just, to her point,
it's not just in the culture that she's coming from,
but I think here also, people make undue tension
out of that situation here as well.
- Yet in America, it's definitely allowed.
It's definitely not strange to have friends
of the opposite sex after you've become married.
And it sounds like she might be saying
it's really frowned upon in her culture, but I do value,
like we have a friend who was one of my friends,
now you've become really close with her, Renee,
and I love that you're so close with her
because I love her too.
But yeah, I think that can be really special.
I do think when you're single
and you're friends with someone of the opposite sex
who's also single, if that friendship gets really close,
it can start to be complicated,
people might be asking you a lot
if there's something going on,
and I just know from personal experience that,
at one point, at some point,
you may need to have a conversation like,
"Are we just friends, or are we more than friends?"
- Yeah, I see where you're going with this.
Yeah, that's over more into what's romantic and what's not.
- Actually, there was a Seinfeld episode,
do you remember, David, where they were talking about
can men and women be friends?
- And I think it was Seinfeld was saying,
no, they can't be, they can't be real friends.
They can't be friends where there's not any thought
of romantic or physical attraction happening.
- Okay. - That was Seinfeld's take.
I would disagree, I think you can have a friendship
that exists totally outside of the romantic
and the physical.
- I agree.
- Okay, but let's go back to the question
how to build more supportive friendships?
I mean I guess I would say, if it's an issue of
finding the people who you want to be friends with
in the first place, I mean,
I know that this has been an issue for me,
how do I meet people?
When I think back on times when it was easy to meet people,
it's like college, where there was this set place and time
where you were seeing people on a regular basis.
How do you recreate that as an adult no longer in school
outside of work?
I mean, you could take a class.
That's always a popular thing, take a class,
something where you're gonna be seeing
the same people over and over
that you have a common interest with.
-I think one of the things
that I suggest to people is
spend some time thinking about
what are you most interested in,
what are you most passionate about,
what brings out the best side of you,
your curious engaged self?
And then go find that out in the world somewhere
where there are gonna be other people
who are also interested in that.
So in other words, sometimes people think they should
take up a whole new interest in a class,
like I've never drawn before,
so there's this part of my brain that goes
I should go take a drawing class.
Well actually, maybe it's not the best idea.
Go find something that you know is gonna have you
really, really energized and curious
because I think then you're gonna be
meeting other people who are passionate about what you are,
and it can make an easy bridge into
some opening conversations.
- That's a good idea, a good point,
go with something you know you love already.
Another thing is I have a friend, Cara,
who just has the personality for meeting people.
She'll be on the subway and strike up a conversation.
She'll be checking out at a grocery store
and she'll make friends with people in line
waiting to check out as well.
And that's not my personality, but I mean,
there's definitely something to be said for being outgoing
and just saying, "Oh hey, isn't this funny how",
whatever, starting a conversation.
- Right, the temptation is to think,
well, I need to make some friends,
I have to go find some big, deep, meaningful friendships,
when in reality the only way to do that
is to be always aware that you're sort of
currently looking for friends and to strike up conversations
'cause we don't know who's gonna actually be someone
that we have a good connection with
unless we actually are out there,
talking to lots of different people.
- Yeah, start small.
And I think in the US,
it is very appropriate to strike up conversations.
Strike up means to start,
and they can be sort of out of the blue.
Now we recently recorded a podcast where I was talking about
how that's my pet peeve.
As an introvert,
I just don't like having these kinds of conversations,
but don't let that stop you.
If you're an extrovert where you're trying to make friends,
just go ahead and start up conversations with people.
You can comment on anything,
something that's happening around you, or,
"Man, it's so hot today, isn't it?"
Or something like that.
Or you could say to someone, "Oh, I love your jacket."
Compliment them in some way,
engage them in conversation.
Yeah and just, for me,
that would really be pushing myself,
but for some people, it's not.
But okay, so we've talked about ways
where you can try to start friendships.
And we've established that we think Americans are
open to people striking up conversation with them.
- Yeah, for the most part.
I mean I think also, for better or for worse,
for people like yourself who are an introvert,
it's also very appropriate in this country to,
the phrase is to blow people off,
or to be just pretty disinterested
if someone tries to strike up a conversation with you.
So you have to kind of know that half
or maybe even more than that,
that the conversations that you try to strike up with people
people are gonna be kind of disinterested,
maybe not make eye contact with you,
and quickly wrap up the conversation.
And that's totally appropriate socially as well.
That's called giving a subtle social cue that,
"Actually, I don't really want to talk right now,
"thanks but no thanks on your offer of a conversation."
People aren't gonna come out and say,
"Please stop talking to me"--
- Right, they'll just drop hints.
- Drop hints, yeah.
- And don't let that discourage you,
that just means that person wasn't in the mood that day,
but you can definitely keep trying and you may find that
you find someone who's also in the mood
to strike up a conversation or make a friend.
Another thing is where you're living,
try to explore the places around there.
If you find a local restaurant or coffee shop or park,
go there to try to strike up these conversations
because then you're very likely gonna be talking to people
who live around you or have the same interests as you.
- that's happened to you and I
a couple times during the last year and a half,
since stony's been born, going to the play space
and other areas around our house.
When you see the same person three or four times in a row,
even without having said anything,
you then kind of have an idea that,
"Oh, this person is gonna be here on a regular basis",
and it makes it easy then to go up and say hello
'cause it gives you a way to say, "Hey, I noticed
"you guys have been here a couple,
"the same times I have", is sort of a bridge into
starting a conversation.
- Now let's talk about going up and saying hello
if English isn't your native language
and you sometimes have a hard time understanding Americans.
That could really stop somebody from doing that,
that could really be a mental block.
- Yeah, I think that that's right.
- And I guess what I would say there is,
don't assume that the person isn't willing
to try to help you figure out conversation.
Some people may not be interested in trying to
help you understand them trying to say things
a couple different ways,
but other people may be very interested,
"Oh, who is this person who's from somewhere else
"who's chosen to come here?"
So yeah, just keep trying, and not every person you talk to
is going to be open to who you are,
but you'll probably find somebody eventually who is.
- And I think another tip too is
when you initiate the conversation,
it gives you the opportunity to go first,
and what I mean by that is you can say
something along the lines of, "Hi, my name is David.
"I've noticed that you guys hang out here as well,
"and so I thought I would come over and introduce myself.
"I live in the neighborhood."
In other words, you can be prepared to talk for 30 seconds
or a minute about yourself in a way that
you kind of have a chance to rehearse,
versus going up to someone and saying,
like as a native speaker,
I can go up to someone and just say, "Hi, I'm David.
"So, what are you guys up to today?"
Without worrying at all about
comprehending the long answer that might come back.
But I think if you're a non-native speaker
and you want to sort of avoid that,
you can kind of talk for a little bit,
versus opening with a quick question.
- Yeah, you can sort of prepare
your little introduction.
So once you've started making,
let's call them light friendships,
people that you know, you're friendly with,
you know their name, how do you build them
into more supportive friendships?
- It's the big question, right?
- Actually, that brings me to
another question that came in but I'd love to read now
because I think that will become part of this conversation.
- Okay.
- So this is a question that came from
one of my students in Rachel's English Academy
and she's from Germany and now she lives in the US,
and she has said to me,
"I find that Americans are really open to talking with me
"if I'm in a really good mood, and all I'm just,
"all I'm saying are positive things,
"life is good, life is great, everything's good,
"let's have fun and talk about funny things",
then people are really willing to engage with her.
But she said, "But if I bring up something
"difficult in my life,
"something that I'm having a problem with,
"maybe financial difficulties or looking for a job,
"having a hard time finding a job,
"or just a struggle in general, when I bring that up",
she says she finds that people don't really seem
to want to talk about it.
She said of course there are a few times
where she's found people who are willing to
discuss this with her, but in general,
people seem to kind of turn away
from that kind of conversation
about the harder things in life,
but the things that are present for everybody.
Were you gonna say something?
- Right, I think that when we take a risk
or when we're vulnerable and share a little bit of something
that's real or something that's deep,
she gives great examples there about things that are hard,
when we are with someone who has been a casual friend
and we take a risk and share something that is
really deep for us that's a real struggle,
I think that's sort of how you figure out
which of your casual friends
are the relationships to really invest in
and go for more depth with.
I mean, just to put some numbers on it,
I think if you have 10 casual friends
and with each of those 10 people, at some point,
you take a risk and really share something about yourself,
I would expect that probably two
out of those 10 conversations
would then go into a deeper, fuller conversation.
It's sort of like with the initial conversation
with someone in line at the grocery store,
you strike up 10 of those conversations,
probably only two of those conversations
are gonna be more than just a quick casual,
"Hey, how's it going?"
So I think it's difficult because
when we're being vulnerable and sharing things
that are difficult, we really,
we're putting ourself out there,
so it's hard to be rejected,
or maybe that's too strong of a word, but maybe not.
It's a feeling of rejection that comes up
when the other person doesn't want to engage.
Let's talk eight out of 10 times,
people aren't really interested in the fact
that you just shared something
that you're really struggling with.
The other side is if you can think about it as
from the positive side, you've found two people
with whom you can now really invest deeply with,
I think that's a pretty compelling reason to say that
the eight shutdowns, shoot, what's it called?
Being shot down are worth it.
- Yeah, so okay, a couple things here.
One thing is how to build more supportive,
deeper friendships.
One way is to simply open up more and tell more
things about yourself, including things that are hard,
being more real, more vulnerable.
And then David's talking about when you
try to deepen a friendship by doing that,
there's maybe a very good chance that that person
is not ready to have that kind of a friendship with you
and is just gonna kind of find a way to change the subject
of the conversation, but a couple will likely be willing to
be more receptive to that.
So maybe what this woman who submitted this comment,
maybe the culture where she is in,
it's more normal to talk about struggles
with friendships that are a little bit less deep.
I mean for me, if I have a casual acquaintance with someone
and they start talking about something
that they're struggling with, this is awful,
but part of me starts to wonder,
"What do they, what are they trying to get out of me?
"What do they want me to do for them?"
Isn't that horrible?
Whereas if it's a good friend, then I'm all ears,
I'm listening, I'm engaged, I want to help that person,
I want to be there for that person,
I want to help him or her fix whatever is wrong,
but if it's someone I don't really know
and they start talking about what's difficult in their life,
I find that I don't really know what to do with that
and I start to think, "Why are they telling me this?"
Do you ever feel that?
I mean how do you, I guess it depends on
how you're defining an acquaintance,
but David's looking at me like he maybe doesn't agree.
- I think, no, not that I don't agree,
I think that what's coming up for you in those moments
is your discomfort and you're not,
your disinterest in taking that relationship
to a deeper place.
I mean again, I would focus on the two out of 10 times
when it does feel right.
I don't think we can spend a ton of time
examining the eight out of 10,
but I think your energy is much better spent on
those two out of 10 times when somebody that is
a casual friend to you opens up and starts sharing with you
and you're kind of like, "Oh, wow, we're going there.
"Okay, that's kind of, I wasn't expecting this,
"but all right, okay, I'm listening."
- So one of the things that she had said was
she feels like Americans
only want to talk about positive things,
and I guess what we are saying here is that
that is probably true of acquaintances
and people of a certain level of friendship,
but once you are spending more time with somebody
and sharing more personal things with somebody
and it's reciprocated, then that person will, I think,
definitely be willing to talk about your struggles.
I mean, Americans don't shy away from that,
they just I think save that kind of conversation
for someone that they have a very particular
kind of relationship with.
And so that conversation happening outside of a friendship
that they feel is very deep probably feels awkward,
and that I think might be
where this person is feeling shut down.
- Yeah, and I think that you're right that that is,
I'm sure it's lodged in cultural norms and is different
from place to place, from culture to culture.
But yeah I think that that's exactly right.
And part of what's hard is that there's no way to know
where you are sort of with another person
without testing it out.
- Right, and then you either get shut down
or the person's interested.
- Yeah, you can try to assess and assess and assess
in your mind like, "Well, they said this last time,
"and I almost said something, but then I didn't,
"and I wonder if",
then you can go around and around in circles
for hours and hours about whether or not
this person is someone who you should take a risk with,
or you can just go for it, and sort of,
that takes major courage,
but if you can get yourself to know that,
"Hey, you know what?
"Eight out of 10 times it may not go well,
"but it's worth it because those two out of 10 times
"where it does go well are really, really worth it to me,
"so I'm gonna go for it."
- Yeah, that's where you start building
the real friendships.
And actually I think one way that you can test the waters,
that is try something out with somebody,
let's say you've met them a couple times,
they're an acquaintance, you maybe consider them a friend.
Rather than opening up about yourself
and saying something that you're struggling with
or something that's hard for you to deal with,
you can ask that person a question,
and then see how they respond.
Do they go deep with their answer?
Or do they just sort of give a light surface answer?
And that's a clue, "Okay, this person isn't ready
"to talk about these more important things with me,
"or this person is ready."
- It's a really good point,
that thought had crossed my mind earlier,
and I'm glad you brought it up, yeah, absolutely.
So what would be an example of a kind of question
that someone could ask an acquaintance/light new friend
in order to see,
"Oh, how can I try to take this friendship deeper?"
-Yeah, I think a couple things,
I mean, one of the things is to say
something that you noticed and ask about it,
"I noticed last time we were hanging out
"that you didn't mention how your husband's doing.
"Is everything going okay with you guys?"
- Or even just, "How is blank going?"
Even if you have no idea if it's gonna involve a good answer
or a bad answer, just asking,
"Oh, how are things going with the kids?
"Or how are things going at work?"
- Yeah, anything that anybody says,
you can follow up with, "And how is that for you?
"How's that going for you?"
- And then from there depending on their answer,
you might be able to draw them out more,
see if they're interested in being drawn out more
and if they are, then that conversation will grow,
and probably that friendship will grow.
I read an article several months ago now
about a bunch of high schools
that were accepting one year,
or one to two year international students from China,
the article was focusing on Chinese students
studying in American high schools.
And the article was talking about how hard it is
for these Chinese students to make friends in America
and I was like, "Gosh, of course."
And part of it is in a high school situation,
kids are using so much slang that these students are coming
who studied English formally,
and they don't understand the general idea of conversation,
like they just can't keep up.
And I think that would be incredibly hard.
And I think if you're in that situation,
your only hope is to ask what people mean,
and probably be doing that a lot.
And for a lot of people, that might be annoying,
and that might turn them off, but for a few people,
they'll be willing to answer you,
and then those are people with whom I think
you're gonna start to develop a more real friendship.
What do you think, David? - Right, exactly.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
- So really making friends
and turning acquaintances into deeper friends
is hugely an issue of putting yourself out there.
That means taking a risk, being vulnerable.
David, talk to me about some of your best friends
about how you met those people,
where that friendship was nurtured?
- Sure, so one of my closest friends
I met in high school, so in ninth grade,
and we had class together, and we just,
I think the first time that we spoke
was during an assignment in the Spanish class
and we hit it off.
We ended up both playing basketball,
and that was the start of our friendship
that's still really close to this day.
- So a friendship that carried through
from childhood?
- Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah, we would have been,
how old are you in ninth grade?
15, I guess.
- Yeah, 14 maybe.
Okay so-- - So that's one extreme.
That's an example of a childhood friend.
And then I guess sort of on the other end
would be someone that I met about seven years ago at work
who just from being at work together
and having conversations there, realizing that,
"Oh, you know what?
"We really get along well."
And so then he and I started to hang out
outside of work sometimes,
and that ended up becoming a very close friendship.
I was the officiant at their wedding,
and we are extremely close now and see each other a lot,
even though we no longer work together,
so that's someone who I met later in life
who has become a very close friend as well.
- And then what about Adrian?
You have a really interesting story about
how you met him, don't you?
- Yeah, so we were, we had a mutual friend,
and when Adrian and I met,
we started to do some of the typical questions
back and forth about, "So, what do you do?"
And we realized that we have both done
restorative justice work, which is a particular kind of
intervention with people in conflict,
and then we realized that we have both done work around
domestic violence and we were both politically engaged
in sort of really similar ways,
and just sort of had this story
that kept mirroring each other at every turn.
And this is another example of how
you can really quickly become close with someone
when you realize you have a bunch of
overlapping life experiences and just
can hit it off right away because of that.
- I had heard the story that you guys
were at a bar and you just randomly met,
but you actually were there because
you had a friend in common.
- Yeah, mm-hmm. - Okay.
But still, you strike up this conversation
and you find you have all these things in common and then--
- Right, right.
- He's moved away now,
but he just visited us last week,
it was great to see him.
- That was great.
- Let me see if I can talk about
some of my friendships that I have.
One of them, well, I definitely have friends from college.
That's just where I met,
actually, my mom has made this comment.
Throughout my life, I tend to have entered into
or built around me these groups of six to eight women
and that have become really
close and supportive communities.
I had that in high school and growing up,
I had the same thing in college,
and then living in New York,
I had developed this awesome group of women too.
And so that's been lucky,
and the growing up and the college, that's obvious,
'cause you're together all the time in school.
And in New York, we all met 'cause
we were connected through various people,
and I think New York is the kind of place
where there are so many people
that it's actually easy to feel lost.
And so I think when you're going there,
you often reach out, who do you know, who do you know,
who knows people in New York?
And very often there are people who know people in New York,
and so that can kind of build a web for you
when you go somewhere, and that definitely happened for me.
And one of my other really close friends
who's been in a bunch of Rachel's English videos,
her name is Lynne, but we all call her Beads.
I met her from a singing gig,
and I think when you're in the arts
and theater of the performing arts,
you can make really, really amazing friends
because obviously you have the same passion.
And then when you're in a production,
you are just hanging out together all the time.
- I would also say that when you're performing,
you're constantly in a state of vulnerability
alongside people too.
- And that's interesting.
Yeah, and people know what you're going through,
like if you get sick.
As a singer, if you get a cold, your other friends are like,
"Oh, it's fine, it's a cold, you'll be okay",
whereas another singer knows, "Oh my gosh, that's gonna,
"yeah I'm gonna have to figure out how to work through that,
"that's gonna be tough."
Yeah.
Well David, it's been really interesting
discussing friendships with you and just thinking about
how many times you might kind of reach out to somebody
and have them not be interested
before you find someone
where you can develop something more.
And I'm really curious, is this very different
from what people out there experience
in their own home culture, or is it pretty similar?
I wish that I had the chance to talk with other people
from other cultures about this.
But thank you guys so much for listening
and thank you David for being here and sharing some about
your life, your background,
and your perspective on friendships.
- Yeah, you're welcome, that was really fun.
- And thanks for the questions that got written in.
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- Bye, guys.