Judy: Many books have been
written about Donald Trump in
his presidency.
But here we examine the
motivations of a public that
initially were wary of him but
later pledged loyalty.
Journalist and author mark
leibovitz does that in his
latest book, "Thank you for your
servitude."
Mark, welcome back to the
newshour.
Congratulations on this book.
I want to say, as you point out,
this is not a book about Donald
Trump, but you also make it
clear what you think about him
and what you believe he has done
to this country.
Mark: What is interesting is
that people have been his
biggest enablers, have been
submissive to him throughout the
last few years and have
supported him every step of the
way -- a lot of the people who
have been some of the most
enduring supporters of his and
congress, in the senate, Lindsey
graham, Kevin Mccarthy, Mitch
Mcconnell, in privately have a
great deal of contempt for him.
Mitch Mcconnell is the
exception, he has publicly
condemned the president much
more vocally than others.
Ultimately, the former president
has been made possible by the
complicity of the Republican
party and eight sort of
glorified geriatric golfer in
Florida.
Judy: You had access to a number
of these people in leadership,
Kevin Mccarthy, senator Lindsey
graham.
Give us a sense of how they
explain their ongoing support?
Mark: It's sort of an angel of
Washington story that made it
work for them.
Kevin Mccarthy knows the surest
way of blowing that dream up is
to get on the wrong side of
Donald Trump.
Lindsey graham desperately
wanted to be reelected as a
senator from South Carolina in
2020.
He needed the blessing of Donald
Trump.
If you go down the line, Mitch
Mcconnell knew that if you
wanted to work with the
Republican president to get the
judges he was so desperate to
get in the supreme court, he
needed to work with the white
house.
Politics is about dealmaking.
The messages are very precarious
and they have sort of turned the
other way and I think they would
say privately --
Judy: So much reporting in here
that is striking.
This is one part of your
conversation with Liz Cheney,
where she said the vast majority
of elected Republicans
understand how dangerous trump
is, but they also acted as
though they are bystanders.
Do you buy that?
Mark: Very much so.
She was talking explicitly in
that quote about Mitch
Mcconnell.
There are some of the more
active supporters, graham and
Mccarthy -- one of the thing --
things these hearings in the
last few weeks have put in sharp
relief is that there is another
way to do this.
There is the simple patriotism
of telling the truth, among
honest people like Cassidy
Hutchinson or rusty bowers from
Arizona who have stepped forward
and told the truth.
Judy: I want to ask you to get
at this distinction between
Republicans, Americans who
genuinely believe that but
general -- what Donald Trump
said, they think he is the right
answer still.
And on the other hand, the
Republicans who, your argument
is, they know better, but they
still are working for him.
Mark: The working title of this
in my own head is they all knew
better.
There's a sort of chicken and
egg question involved in this.
Everyone saying one of Donald
Trump superpowers is that he has
the unyielding support of his
face.
-- Of his base.
I think the reason largely is
not so much that he has this
magic touch over his voters.
He does to some degree, but
ultimately, the white light has
been raised by a lot of the
leaders of the party.
Especially after the election,
after January 6, they have sort
of broken free.
Yes, it could cause all sorts of
short-term pain and discomfort
but ultimately, they are in a
different place right now for
the Republican party.
Judy: What did they say when you
press them on how much they
think about what this means for
the legacy of the Republican
party?
Mark: One thing I was struck by
across the board was how much
respect they have for the legacy
question.
Rudy Giuliani saying I don't
care if I lose, that will be my
legacy.
Lindsey graham set I don't care.
Kevin Mccarthy look like I had
three heads when I ask if
history would remember him as
someone who lied for trump.
About any ramification beyond
the short-term, Donald Trump's
blessing and getting to the next
election.
That does fall in contrast to
people like Liz Cheney who
talked all the time about the
truth.
To them there is a much bigger
state at hand.
There is just much more to
consider when making these
decisions.
Judy: Did you get a sense of
what it might take to get these
particular Republicans to change
their minds?
Or is that just not even a
consideration?
Mark: There have been so many
times that we've all been
through this, saying this time
feels different.
If you can persevere through and
insurrection in second
impeachment, and still a few
weeks later we the front runner
for 2024, it shows that you are
pretty bulletproof within your
party.
He is the clear front runner and
I don't see him going away
anytime soon.
Maybe the next opportunity for a
fever break is if Republicans
badly underperform at the
midterms.
Ultimately, that's in a few
months, and we will see if he
shows and abilities to be
forgiven and keep going to
matter what happens to him and
what happens to the party.
Judy: Mark leibovitz with some
remarkable conversations with
the leading Republicans across
the country.
The book is "Thank you for your
servitude."
Mark, thank you very much.