TONIGHT, THERE ARE GROWING
SIGNS OF DISSENSION IN THE
INNER CIRCLE OF VLADIMIR PUTIN.
THE KREMLIN IS CONFIRMING THAT
AND ITALY TO BASE THE MAN THAT
YOU SEE HERE HAS STEPPED DOWN
AS CLIMATE ENVOY, MAKING IT THE
HIGHEST RANKING OFFICIAL TO
BREAK WITH PUTIN OVER THE
INVASION OF UKRAINE.
MULTIPLE OUTLETS ARE NOW
REPORTING THAT HE HAS LEFT THE
COUNTRY AND IS NOW IN TURKEY.
IN THE 1990S, HE OVERSAW THE
PRIVATIZATION OF THE SOVIET
ECONOMY AND REPORTEDLY HELPED
PUTIN GET HIS FIRST SCRAMBLING
JOB IN THE 1990S.
TODAY, BLOOMBERG REPORTS THAT
RUSSIA'S HIGHLY REGARDED
CENTRAL BANK GOVERNOR, --
SOUGHT TO RESIGN AFTER VLADIMIR
PUTIN ORDERED AN INVASION OF
UKRAINE, ONLY TO BE TOLD BY THE
PRESIDENT TO STAY, ACCORDING TO
FOUR PEOPLE WITH KNOWLEDGE OF
THE DISCUSSIONS.
BLOOMBERG REPORTS THAT SOURCES
SAY THAT HER STEPPING DOWN NOW
WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AS A
BETRAYAL BY VLADIMIR PUTIN.
JOINING US NOW IS ANDRE SELECT
OF ANDREI SOLDATOV AN EXPERT ON
THE RUSSIAN STATE INTELLIGENCE
APPARATUS.
HE'S THE AUTHOR OF THE
COMPATRIOTS, THE BRUTAL IN
CAMPAIGN --
HISTORY OF EXILES AND AGENTS
ABROAD.
WHAT IS YOU ARE READING OF WHAT
IS HAPPENING AROUND VLADIMIR
PUTIN?
WITH HIS CLOSEST ADVISERS?
>> WELL, I SEE A LOT OF
CONFUSION.
LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THE RUSSIAN
ELITES IN THE FINANCIAL SECTOR
AND ALSO IN THE SECURITY
SERVICES.
THEY FEEL REALLY UNHAPPY, THE
WAY THE WAR IS GOING.
AND THEY BLAME ONE PERSON.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, BECAUSE IT
LOOKS LIKE NOW THE LOT OF
PEOPLE WERE GRIEVED ABOUT HIS
PLAN TO INVADE UKRAINE, THOUGH
ANYWAY, HE DID.
>> AND WHO IS VLADIMIR PUTIN
BLAMING FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING
IN UKRAINE?
>> WELL, IT'S QUITE INTERESTING, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW.
IN A MONTH, HE ATTACKED THREE
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES IN A ROW.
AT THE START OF HIS WAR,
HUMILIATED THE CHIEF OF HIS
FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AGENCY AND
THEN HE DID THAT PUBLICLY AT
THE MEETING OF THE SECURITY
COUNCIL.
TWO WEEKS LATER, HE ATTACKED
THE FSB FOR, SAY, BAD
INTELLIGENCE ABOUT THE
SITUATION IN UKRAINE.
AND HE PLACED TWO GENERALS
UNDER HOUSE ARREST.
A WEEK LATER HE --
THE NATIONAL GUARD AND THESE
TROOPS ARE INVOLVED IN A FIGHT
IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW.
THIS FORCED HIM INTO
RETIREMENT.
SO, IT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW
VLADIMIR PUTIN CAN DECIDE TO
ATTACK HIS OWN PEOPLE, THE
PEOPLE HE TRUSTED THE MOST.
THE SECURITY SERVICES AND THE
NATIONAL GUARD.
>> THE NEW YORK TIMES IS
REPORTING THIS ABOUT THE
DEFENSE MINISTER.
EVEN RUSSIA'S DEFENSE MINISTER,
SERGEI --
WHO VACATIONS WITH MR. PUTIN,
AND HAS BEEN SPOKEN OF AS A
POTENTIAL PRESIDENTIAL
SUCCESSOR, HAS SUFFERED A LOSS
OF STANDING.
MR. SHOIGU HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN
THAT MEETING WITH MR. PUTIN IN
PERSON SINCE --
WHEN HE AND HIS TOP COMMANDER,
SAID AT THE END OF A LONG TABLE
AS MR. PUTIN, ON THE OPPOSITE,
AND ORDERED THEM TO PLACE
RUSSIA'S NUCLEAR FORCES AT A
HIGHER LEVEL OF READINESS.
WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF
THAT?
>> YES, THAT IS SOME MYSTERY.
ABOUT SHOIGU NOW.
THE OFFICIAL NOTION IS THAT HE
IS HAVING SOME OUR PROBLEMS.
BUT USUALLY, HE IS A VERY FIT
GUY.
A REALLY HEALTHY GUY.
SO, NOBODY IS ACTUALLY BUYING
THIS VERSION.
SOME RUMORS HAVE PROBABLY PUT
IN THAT PUTIN IS THINKING OF
REPLACING HIM.
BUT IT'S A PROBLEM.
SHOIGU IS THE SECOND MOST
POPULAR POP POLITICIAN IN THE
COUNTRY.
AND IN THE PAST HE GOT RID OF
POPULAR GENERALS.
SO, TO FIND A REPLACEMENT FOR
SHOIGU, RIGHT NOW TO FIND SOME
POPULAR GENERAL, IT'S NOT THE
BIG PROBLEM.
>> WHAT IS YOUR READING OF THE
INTELLIGENCE THAT VLADIMIR
PUTIN HAD BEFORE THE INVASION?
WAS HE GIVEN INCORRECT
INTELLIGENCE ABOUT WHAT TO
EXPECT IN UKRAINE?
>> HERE, WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
YES, THE INTELLIGENCE WAS NOT A
--
WRECK BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY
PREDICTED.
THEY PREDICTED THE COMPLETE
COLLAPSE OF THE TRAINING STATE
AND MILITARY IN A DAY, MAYBE
TWO DAYS.
BUT THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT,
AS PRESIDENT PUTIN HIMSELF, AS
WE KNOW, IS A FORMER
INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, SO HE
BELIEVES THAT HE KNOWS BETTER
THAN EVERYBODY ELSE.
AND TO CHALLENGE HIM AND TO
GIVE HIM SOMETHING HE DOES NOT
LIKE, OR DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR,
WOULD BE REALLY RISKY.
ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN
LIVING IN A CLIMATE OF
REPERCUSSIONS FOR THE LAST
SEVEN YEARS.
AND PUTIN HAS BEEN ATTACKING
NOT ONLY THE POLITICAL
OPPOSITION BUT ALSO HIS OWN
PEOPLE.
THAT IS WHY WE HAVE GOVERNORS
AND GENERALS IN JAIL.
AND ALSO PEOPLE FROM THE
SECURITY SERVICES.
TO SAY SOMETHING BAD TO HIM,
WELL, THAT'S A CHALLENGE.
>> DO YOUR SOURCES INDICATE
THAT THEY HAD SPECIFIC
INTELLIGENCE ABOUT PRESIDENTS
ELLEN SKI, INTELLIGENCE THAT
WOULD LEAD THEM TO BELIEVE THAT
ZELENSKYY WOULD FLEE INSTEAD OF
STANDING IN FIGHTING, AS HE HAS
DONE?
>> YES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WE ACTUALLY BELIEVED THAT
ZELENSKYY WOULD BE AFRAID TO
RESPOND WITH FORCE TO THE
RUSSIAN INVASION.
AND THAT THEY BELIEVED THAT THE
WHOLE BUREAUCRACY OF UKRAINE
WOULD COLLAPSE IMMEDIATELY.
THAT IS WHY OUR STRIKES WERE
FOLLOWED BY THE IMMEDIATE
ATTACK OF THE TROOPS.
THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE