>>> REPORTER ELIZABETH ROMAN OF THE "REPUBLICAN," MASSLIVE AND
EL PUEBLO LATINO, RECENTLY DELVED INTO THE DETAILS OF A NEW
STUDY FROM RESEARCHERS AT UMASS BOSTON ON HOW MUCH LATINO
WORKERS ARE PAID.
WHAT SHE LEARNED, SHE SAID, LEFT HER DISHEARTENED.
LATINOS IN MASSACHUSETTS EARN SIGNIFICANTLY LESS MONEY THAN
NON-LATINOS, REGARDLESS OF EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.
TO FIND OUT MORE, CARRIE SALDO SAT DOWN WITH ROMAN AND DAVID
CORT, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY
SOCIOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS AT AMHERST.
>> MY WHOLE LIFE I WAS TOLD IF YOU GET THE EDUCATION, YOU WILL
BE AT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.
ACHIEVE A DEGREE AND YOU WILL COMPETE.
THIS STUDY IS SAYING ABSOLUTELY NOT.
NOT ONLY ARE YOU GOING TO COMPETE, BUT YOU ARE A WOMAN AND
YOU ARE SO FAR BEHIND.
SO MANY OF MY FRIENDS HAVE MASTER'S DEGREES AND PH.D.s AND
ARE GETTING PAID LESS THAN NON-LATINOS IN THE SAME
POSITION.
>> PROFESSOR, WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU TOOK A LOOK AT IT?
>> I WAS NOT SURPRISED, SORRY TO SAY THAT.
FROM MY OWN WORK, THE PENALTY FOR BEING A MINORITY, LATINO OR
BLACK, IS NOT ERASED EVEN IF YOU HAVE CREDENTIALS.
SO, FOR ME, THE REPORT WAS NOT SURPRISING, BUT ALSO
DISHEARTENING BECAUSE SOME OF THE WIDEST DISPARITIES BETWEEN
LATINOS AND NON-HISPANIC WHITES WERE IN OCCUPATIONS WHERE IT
REQUIRES A LOT OF SKILL TO DO THE JOB.
>> SO YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE COLLEGE DEBT.
>> YES.
>> OR ACCRUED OTHER FORMS OF DEBTS TO GET THAT LICENSURE OR
LEVEL OF EDUCATION.
>> YES.
ABSOLUTELY.
>> THE REPORT DOESN'T GET AT THE WHY OF WHAT IS DRIVING THIS.
LIZ, ONCE YOU PUBLISHED YOUR MOST RECENT REPORT, DID YOU HEAR
FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS OR REACTION FROM PEOPLE ABOUT WHY
THEY THINK THESE STATISTICS ARE WHAT THEY ARE?
>> I TALKED TO CARLOS GONZALEZ, STATE REPRESENTATIVE, WITH THE
BLACK AND LATINO CAUCUS.
THIS IS SOMETHING THEY HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT AS WELL.
ALSO WITH PHIL GRANBERRY, THE MAN WHO DID THE STUDY.
HE SPECIFICALLY DIDN'T PUT IN THE WHY BECAUSE HE WANTED TO
SHOW THIS DISPARITY, HE WANTED IT TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED BY THE
LEGISLATURE.
HE IS HOPING THEY WILL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO FUND PROGRAMS AND
GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO DO A STUDY THAT SAYS WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS
HE TALKED ABOUT.
MAYBE A LOT OF LATINOS ARE CONCENTRATED IN CITIES THAT ARE
STRUGGLING.
OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE ARE RACIAL DISPARITIES.
I DON'T THINK IT WILL STAY AT THIS.
>> PROFESSOR, FOR YOU, AS YOU HAVE LOOKED AT MAYBE NOT THIS
STUDY, BUT OTHER STUDIES, HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE WHY?
DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF THAT?
>> FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT.
I AM INVOLVED IN A LARGE WAGE GAP STUDY.
THE BASIC ARGUMENT IS THAT A LOT OF THESE DISPARITIES IN THE WORK
PLACE ORIGINATE IN ORGANIZATIONS.
ONCE YOU THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT ANY GIVEN WORKER IS WORKING
IN A SPECIFIC ORGANIZATION, WHERE THE NEGOTIATION FOR WAGES
AND MOVEMENT UP THE OCCUPATIONAL LADDER IS OFTEN REALLY GOVERNED
BY WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT LOCAL AREA.
THEN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ONCE WE KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT
HAPPENS IN ORGANIZATIONS, THEN ONCE THOSE ORGANIZATIONS CAN
HELP US TO THINK ABOUT HOW THOSE WAGE GAPS CAN BE AMELIORATED.
>> SO REASSURING TO PULL THAT THREAD AND HOPEFULLY GET TO SOME
SOLUTIONS.
>> YES.
BUT ORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT SOMETHING THAT HAVE BEEN STUDIED
IN THE CONTEXT OF WAGE GAPS EXTENSIVELY.
THIS IS A NEW WAY OF THINKING ABOUT THE SOURCE.
>> IS IT BECAUSE ORGANIZATIONS DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO OPEN
THEMSELVES UP TO THAT KIND OF A STUDY?
>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.
THIS KIND OF INFORMATION, I MENTION, IT IS COMING FROM
WESTERN EUROPE.
THOSE ARE THE COUNTRIES THAT PERMIT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TO
ACTUALLY VIEW THEIR DATA WITH REGARD TO ORGANIZATIONS.
ONLY VERY FEW COMPANIES PERMIT THAT KIND OF VIEWING IN THE
UNITED STATES.
WE KNOW A LOT IS LINKED TO ORGANIZATIONS, BUT DOING
SOMETHING ABOUT THAT IS GOING TO BE HARD UNLESS WE CAN GET THE
CORRECT DATA.
>> ALSO WAGE IS SOMETHING PEOPLE TEND TO KEEP QUIET, KEEP TO
THEMSELVES.
IT IS OFTEN DISCOURAGED IN A WORK PLACE TO DISCUSS WHAT YOU
ARE LEARNING.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> UNLESS YOU ARE IN A UNION SHOP.
>> WOMEN AND LATINOS AND MINORITIES DON'T FEEL
COMFORTABLE NEGOTIATED SALARY.
THEY ARE OFFERED A JOB, OFFERED THAT SALARY AND THEY ACCEPT IT
AND MOVE ON WITH THEIR DAY.
SOME DON'T KNOW YOU CAN NEGOTIATE AND TALK ABOUT THE
THINGS YOU WANT.
THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM AS WELL.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ANOTHER TROUBLING PIECE IN THIS REPORT THEY POINTED OUT,
WOMEN EARN LESS THAN MEN, TYPICALLY 79 CENTS TO EVERY
MAN'S DOLLAR.
LATINAS IN THIS REPORT ARE EARNING EVEN LESS THAN THEIR
MALE COUNTERPARTS, LATINO OR NON-LATINO.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> AND ALSO WOMEN ARE HEADS OF HOUSE HOLDS MORE OFTEN.
>> IT IS A BIG DEAL.
>> YES.
>> WHEN WE LOOK AT IMPACT, PROFESSOR, HOW DO YOU LOOK AT
THAT?
>> IT IS DEFINITELY DISHEARTENING BECAUSE LATINX
HOUSEHOLDS ARE HEADED BY WOMEN.
IF LATINA WOMEN ARE NOT PAID COMMENSURATE WITH THEIR SKILLS,
IT HAS A LONG-TERM EFFECT ON WHAT THE FAMILY CAN DO, TURN
THOSE WAGES INTO PAYING OFF DEBTS, BUYING HOUSES AND THINGS
OF THAT NATURE.
IT IS PARTICULARLY DISHEARTENING.
>> IT THEN BECOMES A LOOP, IT IS LINKED TO RATES OF POVERTY,
ACCESS TO FOOD, ACCESS TO EDUCATION.
>> YES.
MM-HMM.
>> LOTS OF CHALLENGES INTERWOVEN HERE.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> TO THE PIECE ABOUT EDUCATION, YOU ARE A PROFESSOR, YOU ARE
WORKING IN AN EDUCATIONAL SETTING AND, LIZ, YOU SAID IT
YOURSELF, EDUCATION WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OR HAS BEEN DANG LD OUT
THERE AS THE KEY TO GIVING ONE'S SELF ADVANCEMENT, A LEG UP.
HOW DO YOU MAKE THE CASE TO STUDENTS AND SAY, I'M A LATINO,
I'M A LATINA AND THIS BACHELOR'S DEGREE IS NOT GOING TO BE THE
ROAD TO SUCCESS?
>> YES.
WHAT I WOULD SAY IS I WOULD SAY THAT EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT IS
ONE VEHICLE, BUT IN TODAY'S ECONOMY, STUDENTS HAVE TO THINK
ABOUT OTHER WAYS OF ACTUALLY GETTING THERE.
WHETHER IT BE STARTING A BUSINESS OR GETTING INTO THE
REAL ESTATE MARKET.
SOMETHING OTHER THAN RELYING ON JUST YOUR EDUCATIONAL CREDENTIAL
WILL HAVE TO DO IT, WILL HAVE TO COME IN AND HELP YOU CLOSE THAT
GAP.
MY COLLEAGUE HERE WAS TALKING ABOUT NEGOTIATION.
ONE OF THE THINGS COLLEGES CAN DO IS TALK TO STUDENTS ABOUT HOW
TO NEGOTIATE YOUR WAGES AND THAT YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO
ACCEPT THE FIRST THING THAT COMES.
BECAUSE ONCE YOU ACCEPT A WAGE, A WAGE RATE, THAT WAGE RATE IS
ACTUALLY GOING TO BE STEADY WITH YOU THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF
YOUR CAREER, VIS-A-VIS YOUR OTHER COLLEAGUES.
>> ALSO PRACTICING THAT NEGOTIATION.
>> YES.
>> MAYBE IT IS INTEGRATING IT INTO A PORTION OF A COLLEGE
COURSE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> YES.
>> I KNOW PROFESSIONALLY OVER THE COURSE OF MY OWN CAREER, IT
USED TO BE SOMETHING I WAS VERY, VERY NERVOUS ABOUT.
>> YES.
THAT'S RIGHT.
>> AS YOU DO IT MORE, MAYBE IT BECOMES, NOT FUN, BUT A LITTLE
MORE COMFORTABLE.
>> YES.
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
AND THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN AND
ESPECIALLY FOR MINORITIES.
>> AND I THINK NETWORKING IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT PHIL WAS
LOOKING AT IN THE STUDY, THE IDEA IF YOU CLOSE OFF YOUR
SOCIAL CIRCLE TO THE SAME PEOPLE YOU ARE AROUND, THEY ARE EARNING
THE SAME AS YOU ARE, YOU HAVE TO EXPAND YOURSELF OUT, MAYBE GO TO
NETWORKING OPPORTUNITIES IN BOSTON OR HARTFORD AND MEET
PEOPLE.
>> HOW DO YOU HOPE THE INFORMATION IN THIS REPORT IS
USED?
>> I HOPE PHIL IS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO A FOLLOW-UP
STUDY SO WE CAN REALLY LOOK AT THE WHY.
THE ADVISORY COUNCIL THE GOVERNOR CREATED A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO, THEY GOT SOMETHING LIKE $10 MILLION TO INVEST IN
PROGRAMS.
I HAVEN'T HEARD WHERE THAT HAS GONE YET.
MAYBE I HAVEN'T KEPT UP OR IT WASN'T TOLD TO ME YET.
I AM CURIOUS TO SEE IF YOU COULD HAVE COURSES AT COMMUNITY
COLLEGES LIKE NEGOTIATION, INTERNSHIPS, TO LEARN A TRADE
WHILE YOU ARE IN SCHOOL.
MINORITY STUDENTS ARE HAVING A HARD ENOUGH TIME GETTING TO
SCHOOL AND RETAINING, JUST STAYING THERE.
SO IF YOU CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM TO LEARN THESE THINGS
BEFORE THEY ARE IN THE WORK FIELD, THEN MAYBE THEY HAVE A
BETTER CHANCE.