WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.
MY NEXT GUEST IS A CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND THE EDITOR IN CHIEF
OF THE DAILY BEAST.
PLEASE WELCOME JOHN AVLON!
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Stephen: GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> Stephen: NOW, GOOD TO SEE YOU.
NOW, I KNOW IT'S JOHN AVALON.
I ALWAYS WANT TO THROW THE EXTRA "A" IN THERE.
EVERYBODY MUST WANT TO DO THAT.
IT'S ALL GOOD.
IT DOESN'T FREAK ME OUT.
>> Stephen: PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WE'VE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR
YEARS.
WE MET THROUGH PARENTS.
>> CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA.
>> Stephen: CHARLESTON BOY.
NOW YOU RUN THE DAILY BEAST WHICH HAS THIS ODD DISTINCTION
THAT-- I THINK IT WAS THE FIRST ORGANIZATION THAT WAS PLACED ON
TRUMP'S BLACK LIST.
HOW DID YOU GET ON-- BEFORE HE WAS EVER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ).
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: HOW DID-- HOW DID YOU-- HOW DID YOU GET THIS
SINGULAR HONOR?
>> WELL, IT IS A BADGE OF HONOR.
IT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT.
WE HAD A REPORTER WHO WAS DOING A GREAT STORY CALLED UP AND
ASKED QUESTIONS OF HIS SENIOR COUNSEL AND GOT A TORRENT OF
THREATS, YOU KNOW.
"I'M GOING TO BANKRUPT YOU.
I'M GOING TO PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS."
>> Stephen: FROM MR. TRUMP?
>> FROM THE AIDE TO MR. TRUMP.
>> Stephen: OH, FROM THE AIDE, OKAY.
>> AND WE PUBLISHED THE THREATS BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE ROLL.
>> Stephen: I LIKE THAT!
>> OH, YEAH.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: THAT'S FREE
CONTENT.
>> EXACTLY!
BUT I THINK THAT SPEAKS A LOT ABOUT SORT OF THE STAKES OF
JOURNALISM IN THE AGE OF TRUMP.
I MEAN, THESE FOLKS ARE FUNDAMENTALLY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH
PEOPLE HOLDING POWER TO ACCOUNT.
BUT THAT'S OUR JOB.
OUR JOB IS TO CALL A LIE A LIE, TO SAY A FACT IS A FACT.
( APPLAUSE ) AND I DO-- I THINK THAT IS,
HONEST TO GOD, WHY I THINK WE'LL LACK BACK ON THIS AS THE BEST
TIME TO BE A JOURNALIST.
NOT BECAUSE IT WAS EASY BUT BECAUSE IT WAS HARD AND OUR
MISSION WAS CLEAR.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO EVERY DAY IS WAKE UP, AND WE
NEED TO CALL OUT THE B.S., AND WE NEED TO MAKE THE IMPORTANT
STORIES INTERESTING.
AND WE NEED TO BE THE HAPPY WARRIORS WHO LOVE CONFRONTING
BULLIES, BIGOTS, AND HYPOCRITES.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: NOW, NOW, YOU'VE
GOT A NEW BOOK ABOUT OUR FIRST PRESIDENT.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: IT'S CALLED "WASHINGTON'S FAREWELL."
AND IT'S ABOUT WASHINGTON'S FAREWELL ADDRESS, WHICH IS JUST
ABOUT THE ONLY REALLY FAMOUS ADDRESS ASSOCIATED WITH
WASHINGTON, EXCEPT MAYBE CHRISTMAS DAY, WHEN HE WON, OR
VALLEY FORGE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: THIS IS THE ONLY ONE WE TALK ABOUT.
>> AND WE DON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT IT THAT MUCH.
IT WAS THE MOST FAMOUS SPEECH IN AMERICAN HISTORY.
IT WAS MORE WIDELY REPRINTED THAN THE DECLARATION OF
INDEPENDENCE, AND THEN IT FELL ENTIRELY OUT OF FAVOR.
BUT WHAT'S CRAZY ABOUT THIS FAREWELL ADDRESS IS THAT HE
WROTE IT AS A MEMO TO FUTURE GENERATIONS, TO US, ABOUT THE
FORCES HE FEARED COULD DESTROY OUR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.
>> Stephen: AND THEY ARE?
HYPERPARTISANSHIP.
>> YUP.
>> Stephen: EXCESSIVE DEBT.
>> YUP.
>> Stephen: AND FOREIGN POWERS INFLUENCING OUR ELECTION.
>> YEAH.
SO IT'S TIMELY AND TIMELESS, PEOPLE.
IT'S RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES.
>> Stephen: WHY-- WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS SO TIMELY?
HOW COULD WASHINGTON, 200-PLUS YEARS AGO, SEE THAT AS A THREAT
THAT WOULD STILL BE DELIVERED TODAY?
>> WELL, I THINK WHAT WE-- YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT IMMUNE FROM THE
LARGER CYCLES OF HISTORY.
WE SIMES FORGET THAT, AND I THINK WE RUN INTO TROUBLE WHEN
WE TAKE OUR DEMOCRACY FOR GRANT GLD THAT'S ONE OF THE TENETS OF
AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM.
>> WASHINGTON, THE FIRST FOUND FATHER, DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT.
HE BELIEVED WE NEEDED TO LEARN THE LESSONS OF HISTORY.
REMEMBER, DEMOCRACY WAS SEEN AS A SUCKER'S BET.
NO DEMOCRACY HAD SURVIVED.
IT WAS OUR JOB, HE SAID, TO LEARN FROM EXPHFT LEARN FROM
EXPERIENCE.
THE REASON HE WAS SO CONCERNED ABOUT HYPERPARTISANSHIP IS, ONE,
HE WAS NOT A MEMBER OF A POLITICAL PARTY AS A MATTER OF
PRINCIPLE.
THE CONSTITUTION BY THE WAY DOESN'T MENTION POLITICAL
PARTIES.
IT MENTIONED FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND FREE PRESS AND JOURNALISTS
BUT NOT POLITICAL PARTIES.
BUT HE FORESAW THAT THEY WOULD BECOME SO SELF-INTERESTED THAT
THESE FACTIONS WOULD FIGHT ALL THE TIME, CREATE A DEADLOCKED
AND DYSFUNCTIONAL DEMOCRACY, AND THAT COULD OPEN THE DOOR TO A
DEMAGOGUE WITH AUTHORITARIAN AMBITIONS.
THAT IS A PROBLEM THAT IS BIGGER THAN ANY-- ANY ONE ERA WE MAY
LIVE IN.
AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GOT TO LEARN OUR HISTORY.
CIVIC EDUCATION MATTERS AND WE HAVE TO APPLY IT WITH A SENSE OF
REAL RESPONSIBILITY.
SAME THING WITH FOREIGN POWERS MEDDLING IN OUR ELECTIONS.
WASHINGTON HAD TO DEAL WITH THAT, WITH THE FRENCH WHO KEPT
TRYING TO UNDERMINE HIS GOVERNMENT WHEN HE REFUSED TO
THROW IN WITH THEM.
THE FRENCH REVOLUTION HAD ALREADY REVEALED ITSELF TO BE
THIS MONSTROUS NEW TYPE OF TYRANNY, AND HE DIDN'T WANT TO
SAY, WE'RE WITH THEM."
JEFFERSON AND MADISON DISAGREE.
IT'S A FIGHT BETWEEN THE FIRST FOUNDING FATHERS, BUT THEY WERE
TRYING TO UNDERMINE HIS GOVERNMENT.
SO VLADIMIR PUTIN DIDN'T MAKE UP THIS PLAYBOOK ALL BY HIMSELF BUT
WE HAVE TO BE SMART AND WISE ABOUT IT AND CONFRONT IT
CLEAR-EYED.
>> Stephen: WASHINGTON ESTABLISHED WHAT OUR MODERN
PERCEPTION OF THE PRESIDENCY IS.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: AND ONE OF NOT JUST POLITICAL BUT OF MORAL
LEADERSHIP.
IS THERE-- IS THERE SOME ASPECT OF TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY THAT IS
WASHINGTONIAN.
TO BE CHARITABLE?
>> TO BE CHARITABLE.
IN THE SPIRIT OF CHARITY, I'LL SAY THAT BOTH MEN PROBABLY
BELIEVE IN PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH.
I THINK THAT IS A VIRTUE THAT PROBABLY BRIDGES THEM.
BUT LOOK AT THE PERSONAL VIRTUES THAT WASHINGTON BROUGHT TO THE
OFFICE INTENTIONALLY: HONESTY, INTEGRITY, HUMILITY, A LIFETIME
OF COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC SERVICE, A BELIEF IN PRINCIPLED
COMPROMISE AND MODERATION AS A SOURCE OF STRENGTH AND A
GOVERNING VIRTUE.
THESE AREN'T ANYWHERE ON THE MENU RIGHT NOW, FOLKS.
( LAUGHTER ) AND THAT'S A PROBLEM.
THAT'S A PROBLEM.
YOU CAN'T JUST TAKE THE BULLY PULPIT LITERALRY AND THEN RUN
OFF AND DO YOUR OWN THING.
HE WAS SUCH ESSENTIALLY A MOST MAN.
I THINK IN SOME WAYS WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS, IS SORT OF A NIGHTMARE
IMAGE OF WHAT DEMOCRACY COULD HAVE BECOME AS OPPOSED TO FOLKS
-- >> Stephen: THIS IS YOUR
CHARITABLE--
THIS IS THE CHARITABLE PART INTERVIEW RIGHT NOW.
A NIGHTMARE IMAGE OF WHAT DEMOCRACY-- I'M ON BOARD!
I BOUGHT A TICKET IN FIRST CLASS ON THE TRAIN YOU'RE ON RIGHT
NOW.
BUT I WOULD JUST--
>> LOOK, I DO THINK SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T HAVE A DEMONSTRATED
COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC SERVICE COMING IN AND TRYING TO DIVIDE
PEOPLE, RIGHT.
THE CALLING CARD OF THE DEMAGOGUE IS ALWAYS "US AGAINST
THEM."
AND WASHINGTON WARNED AGAINST THOSE FOLKS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE
IT'S THE EASIEST THING IN THE WORLD TO DO.
YOU CAN DESTROY IN A MINUTE.
BUILDING TAKES TIME AND IT TAKES COMMITMENT AND THAT'S PART OF
WASHINGTON'S WARNING TO US IS WHENEVER THE SIREN SONG OF FOLKS
HE CALLED "PRETEND PATRIOTS" WOULD TRY TO DIVIDE AMERICANS
AGAINST ONE ANOTHER, HE SAID, "DON'T TRUST THEM.
WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON THIS ETERNAL TRUTH-- OUR INDEPENDENCE
AS A NATION IS INSEPARABLE FROM OUR INTERDEPENDENCE AS A PEOPLE.
THAT WAS HIS CORE BIT OF WISDOM.
WHEN ANY PARTY TRIES TO SAY THEY REPRESENT THE BIBLE AND THE
AMERICAN FLAG, LOOK SIDEWAYS AT THAT BECAUSE THOSE THINGS BELONG
TO ALL OF US AND WE NEED TO STAY UNITED ON WHAT UNITES US NOT
DIVIDES US.
( APPLAUSE ) AND YOU KNOW WHAT WE ALSO NEED?
SORRY.
WE NEED A NEW GENERATION OF WASHINGTONIANS TO FOLLOW THAT
MODEL.
WE NEED FOLKS WHO PUT COUNTRY ABOVE PARTY AND REALLY FOCUS ON
THESE ETERNAL VIRTUE S.
>> Stephen: WE GOT TO KNOW YOU.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: THOSE OF US-- THOSE OF US WHO TALK ABOUT WHAT
IS GOING ON IN POLITICS, WE GOT TO KNOW YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE A
SPEECHWRITER FOR JAWL OFTENY.
REPUBLICAN?
>> INDEPENDENT.
>> Stephen: THAT IS A MODERN WORD FOR "USED TIEB REPUBLICAN."
>> I'M AN INDEPENDENT.
I'M A CENTRIST.
I DO NOT THROW IN FOR THIS "MY TEAM VERSUS YOUR TEAM" TRIBALISM
STUFF AT ALL.
>> Stephen: WELL, I HOPE THAT TEAM WINS.
"WASHINGTON'S FAREWELL" IS IN STORES NOW.
JOHN AVLON, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.