Chris thank you so much for joining us
my pleasure Davis has said this is
really cool I gotta tell you it's an
honor to be part on the inaugural
kickoff of this this aspect of
masterclass yeah it's so it's a new for
those of you who aren't aware master
class live as a new asset that we are
going to be creating that provides a way
for our users to interact with our
instructors in a live setting and also
give them new ways to engage with our
content beyond our live streaming videos
are downloadable workbooks and our many
apps so Chris Voss is the former chief
hostage and kidnapping negotiator for
the FBI he also taught negotiation at
Georgetown and USC Business School's and
launched his very own masterclass on
negotiation at the end of last year I am
Davis Carter I am a senior creative
producer here at masterclass and I also
had the privilege of overseeing the
creation of Chris's class and like I
said Chris thank you so much for being
here
yeah my pleasure this is gonna be fun
I'm looking forward to it well you know
we're gonna sing a couple songs crack a
couple of jokes we'll have a good time
right exactly right have you got your
beer there that we talked about having
this after 5:00 someplace right exactly
right exactly right
um so you know we think this is a great
opportunity to provide people with some
inspiration and a positive distraction
in these challenging times and on that
note one of the things that I thought
was really interesting is that we
recently learned that your lesson on
tactical empathy is actually currently
the most watched chapter on the platform
and I thought that was kind of an
interesting window into the times that
were we're living in right now yeah you
know that is interesting I appreciate
you sharing it with me too and you know
tactical empathy you know for those of
you if you haven't had a chance to watch
the core or read the book you know
it's probably really hard to tell what
the title of my book is you know it's
are saying them what the other side's
perspective is that's empathy yeah it's
easier said than done you know because
what does she disagree well you should
really be able to say you know what if
they're wrong you should still be able
to say the perspective and the tactical
aspect that we added to it why we use
that term is when empathy was first sort
of came back into common language you
know it's been 30 40 years really we
didn't have neuroscience to back up how
the brain works and we got it now so if
we know how the brain works
why not tactically take advantage of
that it's it's good for people it works
those are the two reasons why you should
engage in a negotiation skill number one
if it works and number two if it's good
for people that pass both sniff tests so
I'm happy to hear that people are
engaging that for better communication
yeah yeah and in kind of like speaking
of the world that we're in right now
it's I kind of wanted to start this
conversation by taking a look at the
situation that everybody is dealing with
and how that might impact the way that
we're engaging with other people but
also the way that we're negotiating with
people and I guess like my first
question for you would be does this
change the way that we should be
negotiating well not I don't know that
it changes the way we should be it
probably changes the way we are yeah I
mean you know there's some real bad
habits out there you know one of those
bad habits is you got to get your point
across and people focus on that first
here the other side out first the well
you should be negotiating is it you
actually go slow to go fast here the
other side out first you'll get the
chance to make your point quicker where
they're able to listen you know this is
sort of an adaptation of advice from way
back when of Stephen Covey's he said
seek first to understand then be
understood mm-hmm well well this is seek
for us to demonstrate understanding in
order to be understood so yeah we should
be doing it are we doing it now it's
mostly an argumentative Society these
days you know battling counterpoints who
nobody nobody
mmm-hmm and it's almost like I find
myself thinking like this steaks feel
really high right now like everybody's
kind of on alert and so it seems like
you know they're there I guess they're
more tightly wound and it's even more
powerful now than it could have been
four weeks ago or you know three months
ago and more important yeah well we're
in the middle of a shift I mean this is
in this hardship is going to create
great things on the other side for
example I was talking to somebody the
other day you know the younger
generations quote the Millennials 20s
30s or much more comfortable with
technology that some of us all as folks
older folks in that you know technology
is here to enhance everybody's lives all
generations are being forced by having
to stay at home to adapt to technology
and with that let's make our
communication more effective let's hear
each other out
you know let's use negotiation really is
a means for drawing closer together for
establishing better relationships so you
know I think this this shift that we're
in the middle of as painful as it is and
the cost is going to be high in the
interim when we come out on the other
side we're gonna be in a better place
well that's encouraging and I'm curious
when we were talking last week you
mentioned that some of your clients of
the Black Swan group have been coming to
you and saying and looking for advice
for how they should be approaching their
negotiations in the world we find
ourselves in and if you're open to
sharing and I'd be really interested to
know like what kind of problems they're
coming to you with and what your advice
has been to them yeah well people are
people looking to pull out of deals are
scared you know what does this look like
going forward you know the uncertainty
is is is ridiculously it's even
traumatic mm-hmm you know not knowing
when something is gonna be over how far
this is going to go those are some of
the highest stressors that there are so
you know I'm telling people will chunk
it out a little bit you know first of
all articulate the other side's fears
you know and I you know I'm gonna I'm
will use adult language here
you know not bad that a little bit you
know I got a client called us up and
said you know this is show and I
said alright so that's the way to
describe it because it cuts to the heart
of the matter it's what everybody's
feeling so when you talk to the people
that are scared to death
and feel like they're in the middle of a
you know manure show to come and down a
little bit more say that exactly say you
know this is this is a show you're
scared to death you don't know when this
is going to be over there's nothing that
works faster and more effectively to
drive in a stake to the heart of
somebody's fear other than just
recognizing it it's it seems kind of
intuitive but its enormous ly effective
in that and that's what coaching people
to do you know help them clear their
heads by facing this head-on and in an
unflinching and fearless fashion that's
really interesting and I was as I was
preparing myself for this I was kind of
always trying to think about what your
your answers might be and I was like I
actually don't know what people will be
coming to them with but that makes a ton
of sense that the accusations audit
which is one of the tactics that you
talk about a really important one right
now it's it's a robust application of
the accusations on it and again when we
talk about in the course is what are the
fears that the other side has about the
situation what are the fears were the
accusations they might make at you about
you toward you and just our
circulate them you know doing audit make
an inventory list them out and start
your conversation that way and it's
ridiculously effective on how fast it
accelerates communication it's actually
really effective it's get you to where
you want to be really quickly mm-hmm
that's really interesting
thank you for that I appreciate I wasn't
sure I was gonna be able to get you to
talk about the Black Swan consulting
that you're doing because I know it's
tends to be with people that are very
high-profile so thank you very much for
that you know everybody could use it I
mean we we try it's one of the brilliant
things about masterclass I mean what we
blown then blown away with by being you
know me and my team it's always you know
you want to go fast go alone you want to
go far go as a team
mm-hm you know masterclass is such an
accessible ridiculous value the amount
of instruction that you guys put out
there
for the subscription price and a high
quality of it I mean I I love doing the
shoot with you guys you guys made me
feel like a movie star and then we got
treated at that world before was a lot
of fun production values are through the
roof it's insane
well thank you yeah and we were sure to
have a YouTube playing whenever we we
broke 43 pets just to keep the energy
high you guys know I'm a big fan of
YouTube yeah we did our research that's
that's our job
so I have another question that has to
do with the current state of affairs and
we aren't going to spend this entire
conversation talking about it just
because you know it it will pass as
you've said but it is top of mind for a
lot of people but um while we are on
that topic I'd be curious to know what
you how you might approach negotiating
with somebody who for example is having
a hard time convincing a loved one that
I need to heed warnings to shelter in
place for example how might you approach
that yeah well I mean what's driving
people to not to not want to stay
sheltered in place I mean we have a
fairly current term FOMO fear of missing
out mmm that's not a new idea
you know fear of loss fear of missing
out he's been driving human behavior
since we've been organized no Daniel
Kahneman won the Nobel Prize in 2002 for
prospect theory which is
basically built around fear of loss
things twice as much as an equivalent
gain so how do you deal with that people
don't want to stand because they're
afraid they're missing out so we ask
questions what and how questions not to
get answers you know we call them
calibrated questions principally what
and how questions we ask them to trigger
thought to trigger deep thinking that
again the Daniel Kahneman will refer to
so you know you ask somebody how long do
you want to be laid up sick when you get
sick
how long do you want to be laid out
what's it gonna cost you to get this
let's say that you're even in an age
group but that's calculated to survive
you're just gonna get sick you're gonna
get over it
mm-hmm Alan how many of those symptoms
do you want to flicked on yourself and
you read people talking about losing
their sense of taste and sense of smell
for periods of time how long you want to
go without your sense of taste you know
lose questions and not to get an answer
out of somebody it's to ask them and
don't ask it in an accusatory fashion
I'd probably even said it a little
accusatory just now it would be more
like how how long do you do you want to
be sick you know that's deferential
that's curious how long are you willing
to be sick how much risk do you want to
take in spreading it to you you'll
survive but how how much do you want to
risk your loved ones you know ask
questions to get people to think about
what they're doing and that's the design
of those questions to what and now
question mm-hmm yeah that makes makes a
lot of sense and that was one of the
things that I found I mean of the many
things that I found that were so
enlightening about your tactics was when
I imagine myself on the receiving end I
was like I hope you're right I would
think entirely differently about that
thing if somebody said like you're crazy
what are you doing going outside like
why are you putting people you know like
in danger you know they stopped doing
that thing like that just as the natural
human condition and you're gonna be have
your guard up and you're gonna be
resistant to that yeah and you know if I
could interrupt here real quick because
you touched on in the inadvertent
mistake that people gonna make a lot
when you use in your example asking
someone why are you doing that why
always makes people feel accused it
makes them feel defensive mm-hmm so you
stopped asking people why yeah I mean
she ain't nice to what instead of like
why are you doing that even if you don't
like it you're gonna say you know what's
causing you to do that mm-hmm it takes
this thing of accusation out of why
and so be really careful about asking
somebody why because the defensive nough
said it's gonna trigger is probably
gonna damage the interaction if not the
relationship mm-hmm absolutely
but when you're asking somebody like
what you know what's it gonna take you
know or those the how questions it
really does it prompts introspection on
their part yeah so that's it makes sense
and your tactics proved effective in yet
another context okay human interaction
it only works where people are involved
okay
just then got it
my other question that was that a lot of
people were finding themselves in new
dynamics a lot like parents that are now
home at home with their kids 24/7 which
I enjoy yeah there they are the other
the hostages now and that's why I'd be
curious to know what you think what
advice you would have for those people
that are now in a constant state of
negotiation with their kids or loved
ones than they you didn't used to be
yeah you know a lot of it is kind of the
same stuff that it's the interesting
thing about this when we were talking
about how human beings are wired this
also includes pretty much anybody who's
cognitive wiring is in place which is
kind of from about age 3 on you know
they're developing more and more
cognitive abilities and even from the
very beginning you know the neuroscience
wiring is there you know I you know as
an example I talk all the time about you
got mirror neurons and in your in your
head and you know if I smile if you can
see me if you can hear me I can hit your
mirror neuron so I can trigger reaction
so if I smile at you you know you're
gonna you're gonna hit I'll hit your
mirror neurons and you'll start to smile
and so one of my favorite neuroscience
experiments you know I'll be sitting on
a plane and be lady next to me with a
baby you know I like all right so this
kids supposed to have mirror neurons let
me smile at this kid and see what see
what happens so I'm you know I'm sitting
there grinning at this infant you know
giving them smiles and kids smiling
right back and you know mom thinks I'm
this great guy and a flight attendant
thinks I missed one oh this guy is
really nice you know he likes kids and
I'm like
the brain science experiment here just
make sure yeah I'm conducting lab
experiments mm-hmm but anyway get you
know get back to your kids at home you
know parents this is your opportunity
again to shape your kids thinking I mean
what and our questions are designed to
shape thinking you know don't tell them
stuff you don't ask them what are they
trying to achieve make them think about
what they're doing how is this affect
what you want you know they they they
don't want to eat they want to play with
their iPad you know well so make the
iPad make the evening the condition and
get into the iPad how am I supposed to
let you play with your iPad if you
haven't finished your dinner mmm
it doesn't matter what they answer them
what matters is you made him think
you're giving you your kids thought
exercises mm-hmm you're helping preserve
their autonomy you're helping them
become better human beings and grow and
their thinking processes I mean this is
an opportunity to just take a little bit
slower approach with your kids and
actually get farther faster by taking
the seemingly indirect approach yeah and
the the preservation of the autonomy is
another thing that I thought was was
really fascinating and something that
resonated for me as well thinking about
it when I was like oh yeah when I'm when
my autonomy when I feel it's in danger
my guard goes up or you know and I'm
yeah that in it so it's a being able to
formulate your communication in a way
that preserves that is so powerful yeah
and it that's a human nature response to
it I mean you're not doing that because
your age your gender or your ethnicity
mmm human wiring were wired for our
autonomy you can't you can't point to a
civilization in the history of mankind
that was content being slaves you know
and and we're broadcasting from a
country that's founded on autonomy give
me the liberty or give me death you know
that's not an American response it's a
human response people will die to
preserve their autonomy and so in
changing I guess like honestly
accusations but directives into
questions that's how that's one of the
ways that we can help
kind of navigate that and not butt up
against people trying to preserve their
own autonomy exactly yeah yeah good
power what question is is is one one of
the great ways to do that got it well
cool well thank you I think there's
gonna be a lot of questions flying
around at homes later on today after
people watch this and putting things to
the test now and I you know it's tough
it's tough so current to me I get it you
know one of my favorite examples of a
question you know because at the start
of the book we I thought we talked about
you know you learning to use a question
how am I supposed to do that now he used
and kidnapping negotiations and and I
used it the examples of the start of the
book is me negotiating it you know sort
of a mock negotiation with Robert Newton
who's a head of the program on
negotiation or Harvard and bringing
through I mean Robert moon who can do
smart smart guy just like everybody else
at Harvard clearly that's whether
they're you know but I you know you hit
him with how am I supposed to do that
and this my kidnapping negotiation and
he was he was flummoxed by it so
everybody kind of learns that so I get
an email a mom is negotiating with her
13 year old child 13 year old boy he
wants mom to buy this video game pay pay
for the whole thing
he says mom misses a video game this is
how much it costs I want you to buy and
instead of just saying now she just said
how am I supposed to do that it goes
okay I'll pay half immediately he cuts
his price by 50% and she says this is so
cool I'm gonna keep saying how am I
supposed to do that till I where am I
and she asks him about four or five
times and finally the kid goes mom are
we really that poor I mean it just
becomes completely worn out and
exasperated and she's kind of you've got
one of my back pocket yeah that's
awesome well so shifting gears from you
know the world that we find ourselves in
like I said you know it is it will pass
and so I'd love to take a little bit
more of a positive lean for just the
next few minutes and also for those of
you who are just joining
this is masterclass live we are here
with Chris boss who is the former chief
hostage and kidnapping negotiator for
the FBI and he is also a master class
instructor and he taught a class on the
art of negotiation thank you for joining
us
yeah my pleasure and let me throw out
just a little fine point you know I was
a lead international kidnapping
negotiator the guy that ran the unit
while I was there was Gary ness there he
was he was unit chief a bunch of his
work for my my my thing was principally
was international kidnappings and I
learned a lot from Gary and I'm
appreciative of everything that I
learned from them gotcha thank you very
much I appreciate that I've got a I'm
gonna have a note for Wikipedia on the
title yeah well Wikipedia right you know
that yeah it's true is they do their
best there but yeah well I know in my
research I know that I have your full
bio but I was like writing you know as I
was writing up all my talking points I
was did a quick check and I will be
sending you know to Wikipedia but they
would appreciate it thank you so I would
love to just quickly talk meaning for
like the next five or ten minutes about
your experiences sense masterclass and
what that's been like and I kind of I
think like what's been your favorite
part of having your class out in the
world yeah you know the people that
recognize me from master class are about
learning you know and that's cool a Brit
has brought me into contact with so many
interesting people if they say hey I saw
your master class you know interested
people are interested these are
interesting people they're interested in
the world they want to learn you know
they're worth having conversations with
us if somebody's is taking master class
yeah this is somebody that I'm gonna
want to sit down and have a cup of
coffee with have a meal with have a
drink with that what whatever they're
doing they're cool they're in the
learning they're cool and I really enjoy
that meeting more interesting people and
that's been one of the really fun things
about having
it was awesome and have you have you
learned anything about yourself or
negotiation as a result of this process
well yeah you know I I like to think of
learning all the time so I gotta I gotta
hand it to you guys though you know you
tease the story out of me in at the end
of the Masterclass know about when I get
picked on as a kid that I hadn't
discussed with anybody else before and
the fact that that you know that was
buried in there so deep and the effect
that it had on me because I knew I hated
bullies I just kind of forgotten why
mm-hmm which is also giving me an
opportunity to think a lot about that
and think about how that's adjusted me
and in how you know what's my best
reaction to someone that I feel is harm
to me in the past mm-hmm and you know
it's sort of yeah I think it's really
helped me in processing things like they
get better as a human being so it was
another aspect of it that I really enjoy
and this is my shelter in place at work
we have I think delivery a front door
sorry about that but and so for those at
home who might not have seen your class
would you mind sharing that experience
with them yeah well I get you know I get
I get cornered by this guy as a kid two
different times and it was the first
time that I can ever remember being
cornered by anybody and it was the most
scared I was ever in my life and were
the kids that were watching he was this
big guy and you know it was a bully and
and at the point in time that he was
threatening me with you know I would I
broken a law I was gonna go to prison I
was gonna be a little executed you know
putting these horrible images in my head
simultaneously you know at that at that
time you know back in the dark ages
before the internet you know I grew up
in a small Midwestern town and you know
the the signal to come home was you know
my mother she didn't you know they'd
turn us loose on the neighborhood we
were fine so she comes out of the front
door and she blow a whistle and then
come home and it was dinnertime
and I remember hearing the whistle blow
and a kid wouldn't let me go I was
horrified I was horrified
I didn't know how to deal with it I
think I think a couple of other kids to
that point in time
at him let him go let him go and for
whatever reason let me go and then he
cornered me in the community pool a
couple days later and started bullying
me again I started to cry and I think
when I was crying the you know they the
lifeguard overheard what was going on
and she blew the whistle at him said hey
leave him alone and you know I'd
forgotten about all that and so you know
going back to it and thinking about it
again in process again you know we
learned and sometimes some of the stuff
that we learned from our scars and we
just assumed that had not have had those
scars inflicted on us but it takes us to
where we are so I'm happy with who I am
today and I'm you know to heal you got
to go from grief to gratitude and in a
bizarre sort of way I'm actually
grateful that stuff happened to me
yeah well thank you again I mean for
sharing it with us we were really happy
that you felt comfortable enough to do
that both in your class and here it's
actually introduced a that about scars
being a part of who we are because I
have a tattoo on my arm that essentially
it's Latin but it translates to scars
are okay because they show that you've
done stuff it's cool that's the
sentiment behind the translation I'm
gonna get out there in a world and get
scarred up a little bit exactly but
fortunately yeah um agreed well thank
you on a lighter note for the next
little bit I would love to have you
answer some questions that were
submitted by your master class students
so these are PA hey be careful cuz you
get ready to make me cry here you know
there's no sign of baseball you can't
make me cry on camera all right you got
it
so these we put out an alert just a
little while ago to your students and
letting them know that we're gonna be
doing this master class live event with
you and we the response was pretty
overwhelming it's been really really
exciting to see how many people were
interested in following up with you and
having this additional interaction with
you and so unfortunately we can't there
were so many that we can't answer all of
them but we're excited to to do this and
to have you share even more of your
mastery with us in this way um yeah of
course um so the first one that we're
gonna ask is it's from Nikolas and he
has a question about mirroring his
question is um how do usually respond
when a mirror goes nowhere
sometimes on me or someone and they'll
just say yes like didn't you hear me the
first time and that's one of my biggest
hurdles
so as wondering could you one just give
a kind of a quick Cliff Notes version of
what the mirroring tactic is and how you
might navigate this sort of a situation
yeah the Marin tactic is just
principally repeating the last 1 2 3
words of what somebody's just said this
is completely separate from what we've
learned in body language and body
language mirroring is like if you put
your hand to your chin your right hand
to your chin then I put my right hand to
my chin and I start to marry you and
theoretically were in sync hostage
negotiators when there is all about the
words and it's 1 2 3 ish words
principally the last 1 2 3 is words you
might you might pick you know 1 2 3 from
the middle of conversation interesting
interesting thing about the last one of
three words you know it's it's often
when someone's trying to collect their
thoughts at the end of the situation end
of the sentence end of what they've just
said and that's why it's such an
opportune time to repeat those because
it helps somebody sort of gather up
their thoughts
it connects thoughts they'll typically
go on using different words they don't
like like one of my favorites one of my
favorite stories when my son married me
my son bran is president my company runs
our operations and phenomenal negotiator
phenomenal and uncredited co-author of
the book hmm so we're talking we're
doing a training session and I asked him
if he's got the notebooks ready and you
know his picture in his head of the
notebook he senses that he's seeing
something that has had different than I
am and so he says to me what do you mean
by notebooks you know and I just react
with you know like an American overseas
I'm gonna say the same thing again only
louder notebooks you know like that
should by saying it louder the same way
it it has more meaning
and finally he just mares me and he goes
no books and I go yeah three-ring
binders was a completely different thing
yeah so you know it helps people reward
now to get to the question you know
Nikolas Nikolas my first thought on that
is your tone of voice you know you might
be mirroring with a downward inflection
and what's a downward inflection what
I'm doing right now is a downward
inflection your voice tails down at the
end the first thing to do is marry with
curiosity and I just hit you with the
curious tone of voice and so mare was
curiosity the last three words you know
I can say the last three words but I
were deflecting or I can say the last
three words and those land completely
differently
the curious tone of voice genuine
curiosity inquisitive is much more
encouraging and your percentage chance
of them going on instead of the one-word
answer is much higher with the
inquisitive curious tone of voice now
should that fail you
you know we teach people to shift to a
label what's a label saying it seems
like it sounds like it's look it looks
like putting a label on an emotion or a
dynamic so the dynamic in the moment is
if someone gives you a one-word answer
they're communicating to you that what
they just said was blatantly obvious or
maybe it seems like they're
communicating to you they think you're
thick or you're little slow to catch on
mm-hmm I'd follow that mirror up if one
would answer my first label might be
sounds like you think this is so obvious
that I'm just kind of thick from that
catching on
I might shift to the other companion
skill to draw it out because if somebody
gives me a one-word answer they're
communicating either one or two things
what they just said to them was so
blatantly obvious that it needs no
further explanation or principally they
may also be communicating to you that
they don't trust you yet and they're
keeping the walls up mm-hmm so I might
also say sounds like you just don't
trust me yet or seems like kind of hard
to earn your trust because when you do
trust you trust completely and that's
why you're keeping your guard up you
know I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna
tentatively gently sort of probe around
the outside of this with mirrors and
labels till I get past their guard and I
reward them for dropping their guard by
continuing to be very respectful and
deferential so that they don't regret
dropping their guy mm-hmm that's really
that's really interesting and it was um
I think you know when we were filming
your class there was a we were talking
about the importance of flexing these
muscles of using these tactics a lot to
get more comfortable with them and I
think it is sometimes easy for I even
for me to like lose sight of the fact
that a lot of the tactics that you talk
about are meant to be used in tandem
right and so I'm not necessarily an
isolation where you're like in this
conversation I'm in a mirror of this
person and just repeat you know look for
probe for more information by repeating
what they're saying you know that if you
do meet a roadblock with one you can
often pivot to another which is I just
think it really makes them even more
versatile so that's great yeah the
mayor's in LA it was a great
complementary and actually labels are
great at complimenting all the other
skills you know and when we were doing
our in-person training we spent a lot of
time on mirrors and labels just to build
people's agility in a moment you get
good at mirrors and labels your agility
in a moment it's gonna be really high
mm-hmm cool
well I hope that answers Nicholas's
question thank you
the next one that we have is from angel
and her question is what advice do you
have for women when using the late night
at them DJ voice when I try using this
technique it feels like it sets the
wrong tone so do you have any tips for
specifically for female negotiators and
if you don't mind it just to kick things
off as for it like for those of my
know what the what the late-night FM DJ
voice is well a late-night FM DJ voice
is what I'm doing now I mean it's it
slows down its downward inflecting now
you know because myself and most of my
team are male not all of us for most of
us you know we are we demonstrating and
women will say alright oh well fine
that's easy forgot to have a deep voice
well it's not necessarily a deep voice
it's really just downward inflecting and
slowing down and you know the female
hostage negotiators that we taught and
fully half of the negotiators that we
taught we were women and we're
exceptionally good at it some of us
actually believe that the women are
better than the men mm-hmm
you know they learned they learned it it
takes some practice
angel you probably thinking there's
probably a bit of awkwardness in your
head and you haven't practiced it enough
so you need more small stakes practice
for high stakes results you know with
your Starbucks barista with your lyft
driver with the waiter or the waitress
in the restaurant your small stakes
practice in you can do the late-night FM
DJ voice just slow down and download and
flex your voices just got a drop at the
end it's a little more the Clara t'v so
you think gentle you know your inner
voice betrays your outer voice you want
to be thinking gentle slow and easy
inside in your head and it'll come out
more in your voice and then experiment
in different circumstances to learn that
improves design figure out when you want
to use it but the only way you're gonna
figure out whether or not it sets the
right tone is by test driving it in as
many small stakes conversations as you
possibly can
and if you feel like it's at the wrong
tone then just be prepared to smile
right afterwards and and so what is the
the objective of the late-night FM DJ
voice like I so I know that it slows
things down but what is what is its
other utility well ejective great
question first of all I'm hitting your
mirror
I'm actually slowing your brain down I
mean it's a neuro chemical reaction we
learned it in hostage negotiation
we thought it calmed people then it does
as a secondary benefit because their
brain slows down so what it does is it
tends to calm emotions mm-hmm it also
tends to make the other side feel very
sure about what you're saying and so we
use it occasionally occasionally in
business negotiations now if I get a
term that I'm just not gonna move on the
term like if I got to say no to you with
the late-night FM DJ voice I'm not gonna
say no I'm gonna say adjust doesn't work
you're gonna feel it there's no movement
on that time mm-hmm
and you're not gonna be a feel attacked
by it simultaneously you're not gonna
feel cornered my objective is to show no
movement no flexibility without it being
offensive without you feeling attacked
without you reacting negatively mm-hmm
so while it was a default voice for the
hostage negotiator in business
negotiations overall it should be used
about 15 to 20 percent of the time max
interestingly enough to put up on the
circumstances for example real estate
negotiations every conversation in a
buying and selling of a home when hopes
and dreams for the future on the line
every conversation is a difficult
conversation agent to agent
conversations are difficult
conversations it really should be the
default invoice in negotiation such as
real estate buying and selling homes
where all the conversations are
difficult conversations the late night
FM DJ both should be a default tone of
voice as opposed to you know your desire
for it to be happy circumstance when you
close it'll be happy and you know a lot
of real estate agents want to be happy
and perky all the time well it's kind of
productive until you calm people down
and people got it there's a lot of
stress in real estate I mean there's no
shortage of surveys that say it's one of
the five most stressful events in
anybody's life so a little more
late-night FM DJ voice and in those
types of arenas wonderful thank you very
much so our next question is from Andrea
and she said I just started my role as a
Key Account Manager but due to the
coronavirus I'm unable to travel and
develop relationships both internally
and externally which my job is highly
dependent upon what do you recommend and
I think this is a it's a certainly
applicable now but I units it's broadly
applicable even in times where we're not
dealing with what we're dealing with
where people need to try and develop
these relationships but not might not
have the avenues that they're looking
for
yeah well I'm here's your opportunity
you get to get better at telephone calls
and emails but how do you get better at
telephone calls and emails
first of all your your being forced to
go email again you got to cut your
emails down write shorter emails not
longer I mean you hate reading long
emails and you probably write them so
you're trying to get a lot done in an
email get less done in your emails the
last impression is that the lasting
impression you know we call that in my
company we call that the Oprah rule you
know because Oprah and her people live
by that you know I and friend of mine
Cindy Maury
he's been Oprah's book her forever
Cindy's a wonderful person and she said
you know their internal philosophy often
in the entertainment world they say it's
in a limo on a taxi but with Oprah and
her people it's in a limo
on a limo you know they realize how
you're treated at the end is extremely
important they determined that whatever
your experience has been with them and
their production company in whatever
fashion you're gonna feel like you've
been treated well from beginning to end
now back in about 2008 I run across some
Gallup poll data is shared with me that
human beings we don't remember things
how they happen we don't remember I'm
chronologically movement we remember the
most intense moment and how they ended
my best impression is the lasting
impression what does that mean what that
means in your phone calls and in your
emails
first of all make them shorter secondly
you know whatever
Rosie language positive first impression
you're gonna try to make at a bare
minimum be determined to repeat that at
the end mm-hmm you know whoever you're
talking to you might start out by saying
like hey you know what we look for the
product of long-term relationship we
want to be partners with you for the
next 30 years mm-hmm make sure you say
it at the end the last impression is a
lasting impression just because you said
it at the beginning the first impression
is immediately wiped away by all
subsequent impressions mm-hmm the last
impression is a lasting impression in
your phone calls and in your emails
make that pot those positive greetings
at a bare minimum repeated at the end
now the other thing I do on those phone
calls and emails there's a cold call of
people instead of starting out by saying
like hey I love you you wonderful start
out with a little bit of an accusation
so know what's going through their mind
what's going through their mind is
they're probably wondering why they took
the phone call so start out by saying
like you know right now you're probably
wondering why you took this phone call
you know right now even though you're at
home your busiest attack you're
overwhelmed by the circumstances and
you're really worried about how long
this phone call is gonna take start
articulating what's going through their
mind as they're starting the phone
conversation or as they're reading the
email mm-hmm you know the CEO of node
found that for the timing excuse me they
got they changed the beginning of their
emails by starting out in recruiting
programmers in Silicon Valley by saying
what the guy is gonna be looked thinking
if you open the email mm-hmm and because
they're open rates because programmers
are in ridiculously high demand they're
the rock stars in Silicon Valley you
know they're the divas everybody wants
so they change their emails to right now
you're probably asking yourself why
you're reading this email which is what
somebody's gonna be thinking in their
open rate and they're read rate went
through the roof so start out your
emails and your phone calls articulating
what you know is going through their
mind and you're gonna find and don't
deny it just just say it that's the
massive two millimeter shift from the
denial to simply saying and you're gonna
find that your your phone calls while
you're stuck at home your phone calls in
your emails are gonna be far more
effective got it yeah so so accusation
taught up up audit up front and then
great lasting impression at the end to
kind of make those more either justice
to optimize that the communication when
you are able to have it that's right
look what you just did you get a that's
right out of me yeah yeah pat on the
back so the next question that we have
is from Dmitry and his question is in
business negotiations have you ever
encountered somebody who knows your
tactics how do you go about the
situation when somebody says I know what
you're doing you're now all the time I
mean first of all we use it's not
whether or not somebody's using a tactic
his tactics it's why they're using them
mm-hmm
we use them on each other in a company
all the time like I nobody's tried to
get me to say yes inside of my company
like five thousand years because yes
there's a horrible response
everybody says are you against you
disagree would it be a bad idea you know
we're driving for no all the time
because it preserves people's a time now
if somebody says I know what you're
doing easing Yoshii ation techniques on
me you know mance is probably gonna be
sounds like you don't trust me because
if I'm using those tactics on me on you
you're you're afraid you're worried that
that yeah I'm not in a position why I've
earned your trust yet you know one of my
favorite stories because I've always
been into labeling I started this back
in nineteen Andes
you know when I volunteered on a suicide
hotline again before the internet the
dark ages before cell phones and so I've
been a fan of this stuff all the time so
flash forward to about 2006 I'm still in
the FBI I'm talking to other hostage
negotiators and we're having a
disagreement I said one of my buddies a
negotiator I said you know it sounds
like this is really important to you
because don't do that stuff to me don't
you dare use that hostage no don't use
that on me and I just hesitated for a
second I said sounds like that bothers
you it would yeah you don't really does
so you know just just be authentic you
don't try to take advantage of people
and if somebody's got their guard up
they're telling you that their guard is
up and that you haven't earned their
trust yet and continue to be deferential
and gentle and and as long as you're not
trying to cheat them then it's okay if
you're trying to cheat them you know use
your prize for good and not evil and I
can sniff pretty fast when somebody's
trying to cheat me and they'll use my
tactics on me and I'll say have you
given up on giving us a 50% discount
on your training my answer then will be
yes and it's I think I think if the
people the intent you know is really is
an important thing and also because if
people have you know taken your class or
or read your book and taking it to heart
you know they'd know that you're your
objective is negotiating to a better
outcome not win lose like I'm taking
everything therefore you're getting
nothing great long-term relationships
great long-term relationships we will
prosper together and in 20 years when we
talk about it let's say why the last 20
years were awesome thank God we were
partners that's you know a core value
that that I operate on everybody my
company operates on wonderful well thank
you for that so here's a question it's
from Teresa and she says um how would
you advise job seekers to respond to
what are your salary expectations this
is hands-down the most challenging
question for us even though employers
are not technically allowed to ask for
it it's still prompts you to reveal it
yours yeah well you know you can you can
reveal it but say you know I'd be happy
to share that with you but let's let's
pick let's pivot to the side for a
moment because you know regardless of
the salary regardless you know they can
pay you if a lot for a job that you're
miserable and that's blood money
you know salary is a ton mm-hmm salary
pays your bills it doesn't guarantee
your success set the salary off to the
side for a second and say you know what
does it take to be successful here find
out if there's a fit look this is as
much of an audition for them as it is
for you you don't want to take the wrong
job just like you don't want to be in
the wrong relationship you can always
get back to salary you can always ask
that question you can always come back
and tease it out I guarantee you there's
a couple things on the other side they
got a range in mind number one they are
restricted to some degree also they may
not be able to pay what the market bears
but the upside for the job might be
worth well in excess of what the market
bears I mean I would go I'd work for
minimum wage for Warren Buffett you know
who's gonna are you gonna be around what
are you gonna get get the chance to do I
work from a minimum wage tree LAN musk I
get Elon Musk coffee if I can hang out
with them and learn from them so what
are the other things involved how much
is the job gonna grow you all right so
now let's say you all these things have
been passed and you want to get back to
Sally my first response is you know
sounds like you guys probably already
have a range in mind I'm gonna tease out
from them I'm gonna do everything I can
to tease out the salary you know if I'm
not willing to settle for like my
previous job and they're not supposed to
to ask you what you made in your
previous job anyway mm-hmm but I can say
look I can tell you what I made in my
previous job that you're determined to
know that and I can also tell you that
I'm not gonna accept that here so that's
gonna impact your decision-making on
this then I'll tell you but it's you
know it's it's a it's a non-starter from
the beginning a lot of things that have
to be talked around talked about around
salary that you can do respectfully
mm-hmm and if they what if they won't
let you do it I'm here to tell you that
is not the job for you you know I'm
gonna be your dad here for a second
should you be in an abusive relationship
personally now should you be in an
abusive relationship professionally no
if they won't let you explore around
that and they're determined that you
have to give a number I'm here to tell
you not only is it a bad job for you but
that company is going the way of the
dodo they're gonna go out of business
your experience there is not going to be
valuable your time there's gonna be
wasted there's a reason why at least 40%
of the fortune 500 is going to be gone
in ten years because there are a lot of
poor business practices out there you
don't want to work that don't Lee self
to be a hostage to bad
mm-hmm and that's yeah that's really
really valuable insight and I love also
what you were saying about ways to pivot
because it's there are ways that you can
come to tease it out without having to
answer that question well they shouldn't
be asking it in the first place but
they're always being kind of turn it
back around on them you know like it
sounds like you guys already have a
range in mind or it sounds like like I
can tell you but I can tell you that
it's kind of irrelevant because it's I'm
not going to accept it here um that's
really that's great I'm gonna be doing
that my next salary negotiation which
okay cuz I'll get it yeah well you know
you're in a great place but I got to
tell you what you know my company we're
looking to hire people I need to know
what you're gonna be comfortable with
like I'll need to explore both previous
compensation you had because I know that
previous compensation I've got to do
that I've got to do better than that
because you got to pay your bills and if
for some reason we settle on a number
that's lower than what you've been
making I've just cheated you and I've
put you in a position where you're gonna
be anxious in a job you're not gonna be
successful so I'm looking to hit a range
where you feel like you're being really
well-paid and that there's tremendous
upside like my company pays bonuses you
know we love we love a base plus bonus
mm-hmm
you know I need to make sure that you
could pay your bills and then I'm gonna
share the upside with you but I'm also
gonna want to make sure that you're
comfortable with that because there's a
certain amount of uncertainty in bonuses
you don't know how much you're gonna get
and I got to feel you out for how
comfortable you are with the uncertainty
factor would you rather have a fixed
number that overall is gonna be less
than what you might have gotten with
bonuses but you don't want to worry
about what you got I mean when I was
with the FBI it was a good salary it
wasn't a great salary but I never had to
think about how much was coming in the
door which led left me free to Excel you
know in the compensation package of my
company we want to tailor to you as much
as we possibly can because I need to
make you successful and if I don't make
you successful I failed you
mmm-hmm thank you understood hopefully
Teresa can put that to work so for our
last question it comes from Ali Risa and
her question is so I really enjoyed my
experience in your class my favorite
movie and negotiation is Dog Day
Afternoon excellent what movie would you
recommend and is your favorite to allow
me to improve my negotiation skills oh
wow all right so well don't Day
Afternoon was yeah it was a great film
certainly interesting based on a true
story actually came out well you know
the guy who was the bank robber and dog
day was still in jail which was a crazy
crazy thing mm-hmm so improving your
negotiation skills at you know in
general overall like I want shark tank
for you know as opposed to movies and I
like watching the interaction Lord
Grenier it's got a great tone of voice I
mean she got a phenomenal voice I mean
she has mastered both the downward
inflecting and smiling tone of voice
simultaneously he's ridiculously
powerful
I like watching more Cuban in that Mark
Cuban who's sink comes across as you
know a tough hard-nosed negotiator
actually he's constantly testing people
mm-hmm you know and then for him the
negotiation is a testing process Cuban
realizes that if he does business with
you that ultimately you're gonna have to
be his ambassador and you he doesn't
want business partners that can either
be pushed around who don't think on
their feet or who are rude mm-hmm and
Cubans not a bully at all he's testing
people in the negotiations and you watch
people who can push back on him politely
and he kind of goes like ow cool he
wants to do business for those people so
you know I take out of movies and I put
you in one of the shows that I watch for
real life skills and I and I and I
really like watching the shark tech
interactions a lot mmm that's awesome
I'm gonna go I gotta go do that too
well thank you Chris that wraps up our
time I want to again say thank you for
for coming I would
with us for our first ever masterclass
live I'm psyched that you got to be our
inaugural instructor ah this this was an
honor I mean what you guys are doing you
literally making the world a better
place you're putting on some ridiculous
quality instruction you're putting on
entertaining instruction I mean the idea
that the Chris Wallace is on the same
platform as Martin Scorsese is just
insane to me that's the sign of the
Apocalypse but the fact that you guys
got him and Gordon Ramsay and Steve
Martin yeah everyone Howard you know the
other superstars brilliant minds I mean
I love what master class is doing I mean
I'm enormously grateful to be part of it
thank you
and and on that note with the master
class live sessions that we're going to
be doing in the future they are going to
become a regular thing for us and for
the time being in front of the paywall
so not exclusive to subscribers just
because of the way that things are right
now it's something that we want to make
available to everyone but again Chris
thank you so much I will leave it at
that I hope everybody had as much fun as
I did I did ha take care of your buddy
yeah