.
. >>> THIS IS JUST ONE OF THOSE
HEADLINES YOU DON’T GET TO READ
OFTEN.
OFTEN. RUDY GIULIANI BUTT DIALS NBC
REPORTER HEARD DISCUSSING NEED
FOR CASH AND TRASHING BIDENS.
NBC NEWS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER
RICH SHAPIRO GOES TON TO
DESCRIBE TWO VOICE MAILS FROM
RUDY GIULIANI RECORDED WHEN
GIULIANI ACCIDENTALLY BUTT
DIALED HIM N. ONE VOICEMAIL FROM
LATE SEPTEMBER, GIULIANI IS
HEARD ATTACKING THE BIDENS
BEFORE APPARENTLY TURNING TO
DONALD TRUMP’S CALL WITH THE
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT.
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT. IN ANOTHER ROUGHLY TWO WEEKS
LATER HE CAN BE HEARD DISCUSSING
OVERSEAS BUSINESS DEALINGS AND
HIS NEED FOR CASH.
>> YOU KNOW, CHARLES WOULD HAVE
A HARD TIME WITH A FRAUD CASE
BECAUSE HE DIDN’T DO ANY DUE
DILIGENCE.
DILIGENCE. TOMORROW I GOT TO GET YOU TO GET
ON BAHRAIN.
ON BAHRAIN. IS ROBERT AROUND?
>> ROB?
>> ROB? HE’S IN TURKEY.
>> PROBLEM IS WE NEED SOME
MONEY.
MONEY. WE NEED A FEW HUNDRED THOUSANDS.
>> IS VOICE MAILS JOIN NEW
SCRUTINY AT A TIME HE’S UNDER
FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION
AND ACCUSED OF RUNNING A SHADOW
FOREIGN POLICY IN UKRAINE TO DIG
UP DIRT ON TRUMP’S POLITICAL
RIVAL.
RIVAL. GIULIANI IS NOW REPORTEDLY ON
THE HUNT FOR A DEFENSE ATTORNEY
AS FEDERAL PROSECUTORS ISSUE
MULTIPLE SUBPOENAS IN THE CASE
AGAINST GIULIANI’S INDICTED
ASSOCIATES.
ASSOCIATES. POLITICO REPORTS THAT THE
CRIMINAL DIVISION OF ATTORNEY
GENERAL BARR’S JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT IS BRINGING MORE
RESOURCES TO THE SDNY’S
INVESTIGATION INTO GIULIANI
INDICATING THAT THE PROBE INTO
THE PRESIDENT’S PERSONAL
ATTORNEY IS BOTH BROADER AND
MOVING AT A FASTER PACE THAN
PREVIOUSLY UNDERSTOOD.
PREVIOUSLY UNDERSTOOD. JOINING US NOW IS FRANK
FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT
DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE
AND MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY
ANALYST AND DANNY IS HE HAVE A
LOSS.
LOSS. BUT JUST FIRST, RUDY GIULIANI
AND THE CALL, WHAT STOOD OUT TO
YOU?
YOU? >> FIRST, MANY PEOPLE WOULD SAY
RUDY’S BEEN TALKING OUT OF THAT
PART OF HIS ANATOMY FOR A WHILE,
BUT THE FIRST THING THAT STRUCK
ME WAS THE NATIONAL SECURITY
IMPLICATIONS FOR THE PRESIDENT’S
ATTORNEY AND A GLOBAL EMISSARY
NOT UNDERSTANDING PHONE
SECURITY.
SECURITY. HOW MANY PEOPLE RIGHT HAND THE
WORLD AND IN WHAT COUNTRIES HAVE
RECEIVED UNSOLICITED VOICE MAILS
FROM THE PRESIDENT’S ATTORNEY?
WHAT COUNTRY LEADER OR COUNTRY
GENERAL COUNSEL OR ADMINISTRATOR
HAS RECEIVED SUCH THINGS?
THERE’S BEEN CONSISTENT
REPORTING ON RUDY’S THIRD
DIVORCE, A VERY ACRIMONIOUS
DIVORCE PROCEEDING WHERE HIS
WIFE IS CLAIMING IN COURT
FILINGS THAT HIS PRO BONO WORK
FOR THE PRESIDENT IS PART OF A
SCHEME TO ALLOW HIM TO CLAIM
HE’S BROKE AND CAN’T AFFORD AL
MOANMY.
MOANMY. YET ON THIS RECORDING WE HEAR
HIM SAY THE PROBLEM IS, WE NEED
MORE MONEY, OR WE NEED SOME
MONEY.
MONEY. IS IT POSSIBLE HE’S GOT SOME
LEGAL ISSUE WITH REGARD TO
HIDING HIS INCOME BECAUSE OF A
DIVORCE PROCEEDING?
DIVORCE PROCEEDING? >> THAT’S INTERESTING.
THERE HAS BEEN A QUESTION OF
WHETHER RUDY GIULIANI IS REALLY
WORKING FOR FREE FOR THE
PRESIDENT OR IF SOMEBODY ELSE IS
PAYING HIM.
PAYING HIM. THIS CALL TALKED ABOUT MONEY.
I’M NOT SURE IT REVEALED MUCH
MORE THAN HIM TALKING ABOUT
MONEY AND SAYING WE NEED MONEY.
THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE WHERE HE
TALKS ABOUT JOE BIDEN AND WHY
GIULIANI BELIEVES HE’S BEING
TARGETED.
TARGETED. LET’S PLAY THAT SOUND BITE.
>> I EXPECTED IT WOULD HAPPEN.
THE MINUTE YOU TOUCH ON ONE OF
THE PROTECTED PEOPLE, THEY GO
CRAZY.
CRAZY. THEY COME AFTER YOU.
IT’S VERY POWERFUL.
>> THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON,
YEAH?
YEAH? >> THERE’S PLENTY MORE TO COME
NOW.
NOW. >> THEY DON’T WANT TO
INVESTIGATE BECAUSE HE’S
PROTECTED.
PROTECTED. SO WE GOT TO FORCE THEM TO DO
IT.
IT. AND THE UKRAINE, THEY’RE
INVESTIGATING IT AND BLOCKED IT
TWICE.
TWICE. SO WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS.
[ INAUDIBLE ]
YOU CAN’T, YOU CAN’T KEEP DOING
THIS.
THIS. YOU HAVE TO INVESTIGATE THIS.
AND THEY SAY IT WILL AFFECT THE
2020 ELECTION.
2020 ELECTION. >> THEY SAY IT WILL AFFECT THE
2020 ELECTION.
2020 ELECTION. WE GOT TO GET THEM TO
INVESTIGATE IT.
INVESTIGATE IT. WHAT DO YOU THINK, DANNY?
>> IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE HE’S
JUSTIFYING ALL OF HIS ARGUMENTS
OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS TO
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. LIKE HE’S LOOKING IN THE MIRROR
AND SAYING THIS IS WHY WE DID
THIS, RIGHT?
THIS, RIGHT? SOUNDS TO ME AS IF HE’S SAYING,
I DON’T THINK THIS IS A STRETCH,
THAT THE PROTECTED PEOPLE WERE
THE BIDENS AND ALL WE WERE DOING
WAS ASKING THEM TO INVESTIGATE
PEOPLE WHO WERE BEING PROTECTED
IMPROPERLY AND WE WERE LOOKING
INTO CORRUPTION ANYWAY.
JUST SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF
SELF-JUSTIFICATION.
SELF-JUSTIFICATION. WHAT STANDS OUT TO ME IS REALLY
BUILDING ON WHAT FRANK SAID, IF
HE’S DOING THIS ACCIDENTALLY TO
REPORTERS, WHO ELSE IS HE DOING
THIS TO, AND TO WHAT DEGREE
COULD HE POSSIBLY BE ACTING AS
AN ATTORNEY IN ONE SENSE, AS A
DIPLOMAT IN HIS OWN MIND IN
ANOTHER SENSE OR AS A PRIVATE
BUSINESS PERSON?
BUSINESS PERSON? IF THERE’S AN ADDED ELEMENT OF
WHETHER HIS INCOME, HE’S
SUPPOSED TO BE RECEIVING OR NOT
RECEIVING IT, WHAT DOES IT MEAN
WHEN HE SAYS WE NEED THIS MONEY?
THERE’S SO MANY X FACTORS IN
HERE, BUT THAT LAST CLIP REALLY
TENDED TO SHOW ME THAT THERE’S A
LOT OF JUSTIFICATION GOING ON,
THAT MAYBE HE DOESN’T EVEN
BELIEVE HIMSELF.
BELIEVE HIMSELF. >> I WANT TO KNOW, DO YOU THINK
SDNY INVESTIGATORS ARE GOING TO
WANT THAT PHONE CALL, THOSE TWO
PHONE CALLS?
PHONE CALLS? >> I DO BECAUSE IT COULD BE
VIEWED AS A STATEMENT AGAINST
SELF-INTEREST.
SELF-INTEREST. IT COULD BE VIEWED AS A KIND OF
ADMISSION THAT I KNEW THIS WOULD
AFFECT THE 2020 ELECTION AND
WE’RE ASKING FOR IT ANYWAY.
>> WHAT ABOUT WILLIAM BARR
GETTING THE DOJ TO INVESTIGATE
ITSELF?
ITSELF? >> OH, MY.
SO IT’S VERY DISTURBING.
AT BEST IT REFLECTS THE FACT
THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY’RE
FINDING SOMETHING CRIMINAL.
BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, KATY,
WHEN YOU TELL CIA OFFICERS AND
ANALYSTS THAT THEY’RE FACING
CRIMINAL EXPOSURE BECAUSE OF THE
WORK THEY DID IN FURTHERANCE OF
THE NATIONAL SECURITY, GUESS
WHAT HAPPENS.
WHAT HAPPENS. THEY GET LAWYERS AND REFUSE TO
COOPERATE.
COOPERATE. SO WE’RE ABOUT TO FACE A
SPECTACLE.
SPECTACLE. THEY’RE GOING TO SAY, LOOK AT
THESE PEOPLE, THEY LAURA UP.
IS THIS A DELIBERATE STRATEGY TO
MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
>> FORGIVE ME MORE ASKING FRANK
ONE MORE QUESTION.
WHOOING THE DOJ WOULD SEND SDNY
MORE MONEY?
MORE MONEY? >> ON THE RUDY GIULIANI
INVESTIGATION?
INVESTIGATION? IT’S GETTING COMPLICATED TO THE
POINT WHERE PEOPLE ARE THINKING
THEY’RE GOING TO CLAIM EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE BY EXTENSION.
WE HEARD RUDY’S ASSOCIATES THROW
AROUND THE IDEA THAT THEY WERE
BY PROXY --
>> LIKE THE MICHAEL COHEN CASE?
>> EXACTLY A TAINTING, A FILTER
TEAM THAT’S GOING TO HAVE TO
FIGURE OUT WHETHER ANYONE CAN
CLAIM PRIVILEGE HERE.
>> I DON’T SEE THE WORD AROUND