Judy: Former secretary of state
Hillary Clinton was in
Washington this week for the
opening of the vital voices
global headquarters.
Vital voices is a non-profit she
started with former secretary of
state Madeleine Albright, aimed
at promoting women in leadership
roles.
Alyse Nelson is the
organization's president and
CEO.
I spoke with the two of them in
a wide-ranging discussion about
the significance of female
leaders, Russia's invasion of
Ukraine and the recently leaked
supreme court draft decision
that could overturn roe V. Wade.
Secretary Clinton, Alyse Nelson,
very good to have you both with
us.
Secretary, we are here in the
new offices of this building.
You're calling the global
embassy for women.
What does that mean?
Secretary Clinton: Great.
Well, thank you for being with
us, Judy, because I do remember
you were in beijing in 1995
covering that conference, and
you can trace a line from there
to this day.
We really started vital voices
25 years ago to carry on the
work that came from the beijing
conference about women's rights
being human rights and a whole
platform for action to empower
women.
And this building is a tangible
symbol of that work.
The network of women leaders
that has been created, the
financial and mentoring support
that has been provided.
And we wanted to have a building
right here in Washington, D.C.,
like an embassy that would
attract women leaders, women
activists from all over the
world.
Judy: And Alyse, you have been
involved with this for a long
time.
What do you see happening here
in this?
Alyse: Oh, goodness.
Honestly, Judy, I don't even
think I can imagine what all is
going to happen here.
We created this space because
what we knew is the 20,000 women
leaders that we work with around
the globe are truly making
change.
But not enough people are
hearing their voices.
And one of our hopes of creating
this space is really to have a
platform to amplify them right
there.
I think less than 10% of statues
and memorials in the names of
women.
But we all know that women have
had far more than 10% of the
impact on our nation and
certainly around the world.
And so what we hope is that this
will be a beacon, a signal to
know that women's issues are not
women's issues, they're
everyone's issues.
Judy: Secretary Clinton, as we
sit here this morning, there's
so much going on in the world.
So I do want to ask you about a
few things.
And one is that has to do with
the reproductive rights of women
here in the United States.
That draft early draft opinion
from the supreme court.
If the final opinion looks
anything like this, what does it
mean for American women? And
what do you believe the options
are for those who believe women
should have a choice?
Secretary Clinton: Well, I think
if this opinion actually is
finally published as
representing the majority of the
court, it is a direct assault on
the dignity, rights and even
lives of American women.
And it is heartbreaking to see
this court dominated by
extremists who do not represent
the majority of Americans, men
and women who believe that this
is a right that women should
have.
Doing all they can to set the
clock back.
This is the first time, perhaps
that I'm aware of that a right
will be actually taken away.
What can be done?
It has to be a recognition that
as horrible assault as this is
on women's rights, it is perhaps
only the beginning of this court
trying to undo so much of the
progress of the last 50 years.
You know, as a recovering
lawyer, I'm aware that that's a
problem that this court is
focused on, is by saying that
there is no real right to
privacy that roe was decided
wrongly.
Well, roe followed a case called
Griswold, which struck down a
law prohibiting married
heterosexual couples from having
access to contraception.
It served as the basis of
decriminalizing consenting
sexual behavior between gay
people who were adults and able
to express their own feelings
toward one another.
It certainly underpins gay
marriage.
So this is a real threat, Judy,
to our democracy, not just to
the rights of women.
Judy: And yet the options, given
the political realities of
congress, are are very few,
aren't they?
And what do you see?
You see this energizing
Democrats more or Republicans
going into these crucial
midterms?
Secretary Clinton: Well, I hope
it generates I hope it energizes
all Americans who care about our
democracy, who care about the
women in their lives, who care
about, you know, an extreme
minority dictating the decisions
that all of us are going to have
to make, because they're the
ones who are trying to determine
that for everyone else.
So even if you're not a woman,
even if you're not gay, if not
in our interracial marriage,
even if you don't use
contraception or whatever your
position is, you should be
worried about this.
And the real answer is to elect
people who will respect the
rights and dignity of Americans,
women and men alike.
Judy: I think there's a
consensus that whatever the
public views are out there about
roe V wade, that the pro-life
forces politically have been
more effective at translating
their support at the ballot box
into legislative wins wins in
the judicial with judgeships.
Why do you think that is?
Why do you think if if more
Americans favor a woman's right
to choose, they the other side
has been more successful.
Secretary Clinton: I think a lot
of Americans just took for
granted that despite opposition
to reproductive choice, it would
not go away.
There was a complacency, an
acceptance.
I remember during the 2016
campaign, I gave speeches about
this.
I talked about the dangers that
would be posed to this right and
other rights if my opponent were
elected because of the promises
that he'd made to the extreme
factions within the Republican
party.
And honestly, Judy, people
didn't believe me.
They they their attitude was,
oh, that sounds really
farfetched.
That'll never happen.
So oftentimes in politics, the
entrenched status quo position
is just not as vigorously
defended as the opposition
position.
And so those who wanted to
overturn roe, those who wanted
to turn the clock back, were
very motivated.
And those who said, oh, well,
that's settled law, including
people sitting on the court who
are going to vote on this
decision, when asked in their
confirmation hearings, gave
every reason to reassure the
American public, oh, no, you
know, there's such a thing
called stare decisis or yes, I
follow precedent.
Right.
Either they have had some kind
ofyou know, brain change or
they were deliberately
misleading the American people.
So, yeah, the energy was on the
side to overturn.
Now, I hope that energy will
shift to the side of those of us
who want to protect the progress
we've made.
Judy: And and I want to ask you
about that, because you talk to
most Americans right now,
they're worried about inflation.
They're worried about the
economy, other things going on
in their lives.
Is this going to be something
that motivates them?
Secretary Clinton: I think it
will motivate a considerable
number of voters.
But of course, the case has to
be made.
And that's not to say you
shouldn't worry about the
economy and inflation.
Of course, people are very much
aware of that.
They're living with it.
But let's not forget that making
decisions about who gets to
choose how your body is going to
be treated is also a truly life
or death opinion that they have
to be also taking into account
in their voting.
You know, there's been a lot of
research around the world when.
Governments crack down on
abortion.
It does not stop abortion.
What it does is make it more
dangerous and causes more damage
to many more women.
And I would also just add, if
these supreme court justices and
the very extreme Republicans who
support them really cared about
children, why don't they support
health care for every pregnant
woman in our country?
Why do they let a big state like
Texas deny health care?
Because they won't expand
medicaid to mothers who want to
have their children, and they
therefore have the highest rate
of maternal mortality in
America.
Why don't they support child
care so that if a mother is
going to be forced to give birth
to a child, that mother will be
able to support herself and her
child because she'll be able to
go out and work and the list
goes on.
This is not at really the end of
the analysis about anything
other than controlling women
with some kind of patriarchal
view of society that they want
to impose on the rest of us.
Judy: Just quickly, before I
leave the midterms.
Conventional wisdom is not a
good year for the Democrats.
As you know, when your husband
was president Clinton under
president Obama, huge losses in
the house races in the middle of
the first term.
Do you have any reason to
believe it's going to be
different this year?
Secretary Clinton: Well, I know
the history, so I'm aware of the
challenges, but I'm not about to
throw in the towel or give up.
I mean, I think it depends upon,
you know, number one, whether
Democrats are willing to point
out the extremism that has
captured the Republican party.
And to make it clear this is not
about special interest groups.
This is not about one group of
Americans versus another.
This is about the rise of
authoritarianism within our own
country.
This is a direct attack on our
democracy.
So if Democrats are willing, you
know, not only to address the
issues that are kitchen table
issues, which we do pretty well,
but also to raise some of the
concerns about what kind of
country we're going to have.
I think we could do better than
is predicted.
Judy: A few questions quickly
about Ukraine.
For all the extraordinary
resistance and determination of
the Ukrainian military, the
Ukrainian people, and for all
the the the setbacks the
Russians have experienced, they
are still pounding away every
day on Ukraine.
How confident are you that the
Ukrainians can actually win
this?
Secretary Clinton: I am very
confident in the Ukrainians
determination to win and I am
very sure that if we continue to
provide them with the military
assistance they need, they can
continue to block Russia's
ambitions.
Even now with all that Russia is
pounding south and eastern
Ukraine with, they have made
relatively little progress.
And Putin's original idea that
within three days he'd be in
kiev, he'd, you know,
assassinate, inprison the
leadership of Ukraine.
He would take it over.
He'd install a puppet regime.
That has not happened.
And I don't believe that can
happen.
The real challenge now is how do
we best equip and support the
Ukrainian government, the
Ukrainian military, the
Ukrainian people in their
courageous resistance to this
unjustified, brutal war? And,
you know, the Russians haven't
even taken over the steel plant
yet in mariupol.
They have done everything they
could to destroy that bastion of
resistance.
And there Ukrainians are still
fighting literally, you know,
inch by inch.
So the Russians have bitten off
a lot more than they can chew.
They're going to look for some
kind of graceful exit.
But I don't think anybody should
ever tell the Ukrainians what
they should negotiate.
This is up to them and we should
support them.
Judy: But you've dealt with
Vladimir Putin.
If he faces humiliation in
Ukraine, do you think he what
makes you think he wouldn't turn
to weapons of mass destruction,
tactical nuclear weapons?
And if he did, what should the
response of the U.S. And nato
be?
Judy: -- Secretary Clinton: I
don't know what he will
eventually decide to do.
He's already been humiliated.
He did not get what he told the
Russian people he was going to
achieve.
He's now into the third month of
a war he thought would be done
in three days.
One of the reasons why the
sanctions are so important is
because they send a message to
everybody around him that the
cost is going to be more than
you can bear.
So I don't want to speculate
about what the U.S. Or nato
should do if some hypothetical
action is taken.
But I think we need to be very
clear in sending a message to
Putin that we're going to do
everything we can to make sure
he does not succeed in Ukraine.
And at some point, given the
losses in his military, given
the losses of his military
leadership, given the turmoil
within his intelligence and
security forces, because they
told him what he wanted to hear
and it didn't work out.
I think that there's more to be
seen about what happens inside
the Kremlin as this unfolds.
Judy: Do you think he could
actually fall as a leader?
Secretary Clinton: I have no
idea.
But I think he could certainly
be influenced by those who are
paying a price because of his,
you know, messianic and, you
know, violent attack on Ukraine.
Judy: Last question I want to
ask both of you, and that is, we
know the leadership in the white
house, in the congress, among
Democrats.
Senior.
Older.
In in in most cases.
Can you identify a few younger
democratic women who you see as
maybe the future of the party,
Alyse?
Secretary Clinton: -- Alyse:
Well, I'll just start off by
saying, by the way, this is a
nonprofit, is bipartisan.
Judy: Right.
Alyse: So we can't get behind
political candidates, but we
certainly support more women
political leaders and certainly,
I think more women who want to,
as secretary Clinton has done
and the late secretary Albright
did, is use their position and
their power to really push
forward and advance issues that
are important to women in their
families.
Secretary Clinton: Yeah, and I
certainly subscribe to that.
And what's exciting about the
vital voices network is that we
have women who are running for
office all over the world.
Judy: Secretary Clinton, Alyse
Nelson, thank you both very
much.
Secretary Clinton: Thank you.
Judy: Thank you.