Knowles: Violence is not a subjective feeling,
violence is an objective fact.
Professor: You cited a list of statistics in your talk,
which you claim support the idea
that illegal immigrants are dangerous or criminals.
Knowles: I cited a number of statistics
that showed that they commit federal crimes
at a significantly higher rate
than native born Americans, yeah.
Professor: Okay.
What role do you think that structural racism
and inherent bias has to play in those statistics?
Knowles: I don't think
that the people who enter this country illegally
are forced to do so by some sort of systemic racism.
There is no systemic American racist
going down to El Salvador and saying,
"You better get up and sneak into the United States."
And there's nobody in the United States
who forces people who come here illegally to commit crimes.
I think the premise of this question
is actually quite offensive,
though it's a popular assumption,
which is that illegal aliens somehow don't have free will.
It's the assumption that illegal aliens
are somehow morally uneducated,
they have no sense of right and wrong,
they have no ability to control their emotions
and their impulses.
This is obviously profoundly racist and not true.
We have free will,
we have the ability to do what we want to do.
This is why, by the way,
the majority of Hispanic people in the United States
and Hispanic voters oppose illegal immigration.
The races are exactly the same,
the ethnicity is exactly the same,
the question of crime is different,
because race does not determine your criminality.
Professor: That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that people of color
are more likely to be convicted of crimes unfairly
than white people.
Knowles: They're more likely to commit certain crimes,
that's true.
I don't think that's because of their race,
I think it's because of aspects of their free will
and perhaps of culture.
Professor: That's not true.
I'm talking about
Knowles: That is true.
What I just said is true.
Professor: I'm not quite sure
where you're getting your statistics from,
and you choose...
Knowles: From the federal government.
Professor: You choose to interpret them...
Knowles: From the Bureau of Justice statistics
and Department of Homeland Security.
Professor: Can I talk?
Is that okay? Knowles: Well, you said
you didn't know where I got my statistics from
and I'm telling you where I get them from.
Professor: Well, it would have been nice
if you could have let me finish my sentence.
Anyway, you're using
Knowles: Well, I was answering your question.
[protesters murmur]
Professor: You are using your statistics
for your own political agenda
and that's your prerogative.
Knowles: I'm citing statistics because they're true.
Professor: I'm faculty here.
I also support the protestor in the back.
Knowles: What do you support specifically?
Do you think that anti-immigrant rhetoric is violent
free speech?
Professor: Well, yes, because...
Knowles: You think that speech is violence?
Professor: No, I think that...
Knowles: That's what that sign says.
Professor: The conversation that you're having
is oppressive,
and it contributes...
Knowles: So I am oppressing by what I'm doing?
So I am exerting violence on people by my speech?
That's what the sign says,
and that's what you just said.
Professor: That's what you're doing.
Knowles: And the protestor is saying
that's exactly what I'm doing,
and she's saying, that's exactly what her sign means.
So that means that you,
a faculty member at an American public university
paid for by taxpayer dollars,
are conflating speech with violence?
Professor: Yes.
Speech can be violent.
What you are saying contributes to systemic racism
in this country.
It means that my students of color are pulled over
and accused of stealing a car when they did not.
Knowles: I'm not pulling anybody over for stealing anything,
Professor: I'm not saying that you actually did.
Knowles: I see many people
of many different races in this room,
they all seem to be doing just fine.
I don't think any of them have felt violence
because they listened to a lecture on basic facts
about our immigration system.
Protestor: Have you cared to ask us if we felt violence
or you're just assuming that we haven't?
Knowles: The question was
have I asked people in this room if they've felt
as though some violence has been committed on them?
No, I haven't asked
because no violence has been committed on you
because violence is not a subjective feeling,
violence is an objective fact.